CARB/EPA reject proposed fix 12-14 2.0L Passat Manual Vehicles

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
The 328d has a single twin scroll turbo. And there is no chance in hell that bmw 2L powerplant costs $10k more than the vw tdi powerplant. What about the gen 1 chevy cruze diesel? It's just as affordable as the tdi without resorting to cheating the regs. This seems like a circular argument- everyone is entitled to their opinion. But not all opinions are supported by the facts.
They both have from the start had urea because they both came about after the Urea use rules were put into place from 2011 on.

the chevy was from the start designed with urea because when it was first engineered the epa & carb had set in stone what was required to pass e-test & durability rules.

And bmw's twin scroll turbo is a multiple turbo setup, it is the very definition of a mulitiple turbo setup.....

BMW to save space & weight came up with this setup that uses a low mass fresh air small turbo turbine that is exclusively used for fast spinup at lower rpms. Then once the engine is running at speed the fresh air is diverted away from the low-speed low mass turbo to a second larger heavier mass fresh air turbine turbo for higher engine speeds.

I have to ask with you calling this a single turbo setup....Have you actually looked at one of these in the real world?

Have you ever replaced any turbo on anything, or similar to this setup?

Anyone who calls this a single turbo really has no understanding of what a single turbo setup is really like, in my opinion...My opinion which is based on working on & replacing turbos all the back to the really big heavy mass ones used on 911s in the 1970s....

This is a very expensive & extremely complex design with multiple fresh air turbines of different mass & sizes that has a design which when fails at current replacement costs today would exceed the value of a lower price vwag 2.0 CR offerings.....
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
The N47 in the 328d has one turbo. Twin scroll, but one turbo. Costs about $1,500 in the aftermarket. More than a VW CR turbo, but not an order of magnitude more.

No argument that BMW's pricing and value proposition is absurd. But I wouldn't be surprised if the actual cost (not price) of the hardware they used to meet emissions standards wasn't simlar to VWs. Of course they're working on an entirely different price structure here in the US. But that really doesn't have anything to do with that the stuff actually costs.
from bmw the list was closer to double that when I last looked....

if this tech is taken up by other manufacturers the shared cost will drop, but my numbers are from what I found.

also, consider the fact that bmw put the money into designing this setup so has rights for use which lower the upfront costs of replacement to be used in one of their offerings.....aftermarket replacement costs do not consider the costs required by a auto maker to get rights to use this in their offerings.....
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Nope. The 328d has one turbo. One turbine, one compressor, one turbo. The difference in twin scroll vs. single scroll turbos lies in the manifold design. I've modified my tdi to 200 hp, and swapped turbos on both the tdi and my 7.3 Ford- so I have a pretty good idea what a turbo looks like and how they work.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Looks like one turbo to me.

335d has compound turbos. That engine in other applications doesn't. In fact the compound setup is pretty reliable, and kind of primitive. Still vacuum operated, turbos are sold separately. Amusingly (to me anyway) the small turbo is a KP39, same turbo as on a BEW. Without the manifold, of course.

Partslink shows list for the BMW turbo at $2,135. It also shows list for the CJAA turbo at $1,528. BMW is more expensive, but far less than twice the cost of the VW turbo. Both are Borg-Warners, I believe.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
also, consider the fact that bmw put the money into designing this setup so has rights for use which lower the upfront costs of replacement to be used in one of their offerings.....aftermarket replacement costs do not consider the costs required by a auto maker to get rights to use this in their offerings.....
I understand OE manufacturers limiting parts access to the aftermarket all too well. I deal with it daily. But we've had no difficulty, at least so far, finding any diesel turbos in the aftermarket. Only exception is actuators for BEW and BRM turbos. Go figure on that one.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The sequential turbos on the 335d shouldn't be confused with the twin scroll turbo on the 328d. The 335d is often referred to as having twin turbos which I don't think is accurate (must be fraternal twins, lol). That bimmer is an amazing car. I'd have one right now if it was available with a stick.
 
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