Gen 1 3.0s being re-sold by VW after Buyback??!! *HAVE PROOF*

Gen 1 3.0s being re-sold by VW after Buyback??!! *UPDATEF*

UPDATE: As I expected - cars were obtained illegally by the seller! Got contacted by Manheim auction today stating that they received a letter from VW with list of VINs that have "ownership issue." This seller has been selling cars like this for 3 months now and finally VW caught on to it - my guess is because cars they sold 3 months ago finally got an answer from VW on second claims and they started to investigate how its possible



Hey guys,
I have 3 VINs of Q7s and Touregs that CarFax shows as
"Michigan
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Auburn Hills, MI
Title or registration issued
to manufacturer"
However, they were sold by an independent used car dealer at an auction and all have new titles made by that dealer.
Online claim portal allows me to put the VINs in and it gives me a BuyBack amount. I called the Hotline and they told me this is not possible. But how could CarFax show this on 3 cars from same seller - too much of a coincidence if you ask me.
Has anyone seen this or has any ideas?
To make sure, the CarFax shows same type of record as it does for Passats and Jettas that got fixed and being re-sold again.

Like I posted in the speculation thread, the issue is the claims portal is not very consistent. Checked 4 q7s and 1 that my mom bought back in march. They all show full restitution (they already got half their money )

The claimsportal itself is not enough to prove it. That DMV registration though. Hmmmmm

kooyajerms said:

Like I posted in the speculation thread, the issue is the claims portal is not very consistent. Checked 4 q7s and 1 that my mom bought back in march. They all show full restitution (they already got half their money )

The claimsportal itself is not enough to prove it. That DMV registration though. Hmmmmm

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Yup, but lets throw the portal out.

Car got sold back to VW. How could it get back on the market without an approved fix? Phone rep said its impossible...

The vehicle is actually listed for sale?


No way VW/Audi process the BB twice.

is that "Title or registration issued to manufacturer" on CarFax definitive proof that it was turned in for a buyback? Or just speculation based on other vehicles you've seen turned in? Just trying to make sense of it because that is super scary if it is what you say it is.

drsven said:

The vehicle is actually listed for sale?


No way VW/Audi process the BB twice.

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Yes sold and title given.

opsx said:

is that "Title or registration issued to manufacturer" on CarFax definitive proof that it was turned in for a buyback? Or just speculation based on other vehicles you've seen turned in? Just trying to make sense of it because that is super scary if it is what you say it is.

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Every single car I turned in has this record. Every single car I have checked (hundreds by now) has it after buyback is complete.

TDIforDays said:

Yes sold and title given.
Every single car I turned in has this record. Every single car I have checked (hundreds by now) has it after buyback is complete.

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Right, but is it possible they are doing that for cars that are turned in without buyback paperwork and then giving it back to dealerships to sell? I know some VW dealers are straight up selling 3.0 G1 that are traded in without buyback paperwork and not involving VW corporate but maybe some arent and this is the result? Just thinking out loud.

Wait, where is the "PROOF?"

opsx said:

Right, but is it possible they are doing that for cars that are turned in without buyback paperwork and then giving it back to dealerships to sell? I know some VW dealers are straight up selling 3.0 G1 that are traded in without buyback paperwork and not involving VW corporate but maybe some arent and this is the result? Just thinking out loud.

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Yes, but then CarFax would show that Dealer Obtained Title. In this case it says that title was transferred to the manufacturer.

psd1 said:

Wait, where is the "PROOF?"

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Specific VIN numbers and CarFax reports for them. Can send them to you if you are interested in taking a look

TDIforDays said:

Yes, but then CarFax would show that Dealer Obtained Title. In this case it says that title was transferred to the manufacturer.
Specific VIN numbers and CarFax reports for them. Can send them to you if you are interested in taking a look

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So let me make sure that I understand correctly. You are saying that there are Gen 1 3.0's that were bought back, then released to a dealer to be sold again...and they are showing as eligible for buyback a second time?

opsx said:

Right, but is it possible they are doing that for cars that are turned in without buyback paperwork and then giving it back to dealerships to sell? I know some VW dealers are straight up selling 3.0 G1 that are traded in without buyback paperwork and not involving VW corporate but maybe some arent and this is the result? Just thinking out loud.

Click to expand...

psd1 said:

So let me make sure that I understand correctly. You are saying that there are Gen 1 3.0's that were bought back, then released to a dealer to be sold again...and they are showing as eligible for buyback a second time?

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That is exactly correct. HOWEVER, I made a new claim using a VIN number of Gen 1 3.0 that I did buyback in July and it also shows up as eligible and shows me buyback amount.

The issue here is HOW could these cars be back on the market. My only theory is that this dealer literally steals cars from VW lots, has a connect at local DMV to get him a new title without having any documents and then cashing out. But its going through Manheim auction so if this ever comes to light, they will go after seller big time.

I cannot think of any other way how CarFax can show "title issued to manufacturer" for a Gen 1 3.0 and now being sold again.

You may wish to draw this situation to the attention of the case lawyers. The situation as described smells like fraud.

The real issue here is that the system isn't giving you an accurate representation of what options are available for any given vehicle (fix/buyback/nothing). This can be brought to the attention of the lawyers so that they can pass it on as a suggestion to VW to implement a change in the system where if you put in a VIN# of a vehicle that has already been bought back it would tell you so - but they probably have no real incentive to implement such a chance (besides saving them time down the line of verifying these types of claims and then denying them). It sure would be nice if the system kicked back VIN#s like that instead of giving you estimated buyback amounts.

Essentially that's what the audit step of the process is that has been discussed across the forum at length. "is the applicant committing fraud or not?"... The fact you can put a VIN in the computer and get a buyback amount spit back doesn't meant they're actually going to give it to you.

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vanbcguy said:

The fact you can put a VIN in the computer and get a buyback amount spit back doesn't meant they're actually going to give it to you.

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But that really isn't the issue here. There's no fix yet for any of the 3.0 TDIs. If those cars truly are buybacks (and I can't think of an alternative explanation for the "titled to manufacturer" entry--lemon law buybacks, maybe?), then there's no way they should be out on the open market.

TDIforDays said:

I have 3 VINs of Q7s and Touregs that CarFax shows as
"Michigan
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Auburn Hills, MI
Title or registration issued
to manufacturer"........

Click to expand...

What date does the carfax show the titles being issued to the manufacturer?

I'd like to see the for sale listing for these cars.

What auction were they sold at?
Were you present at the auction, or how did you come across the info?
How about posting the VIN for all three vehicles?

I agree, add the links and carfax.

I think lemon buybacks sounds reasonable, but wouldn't the carfax indicate this? How about lease returns which were not processed under the buyback, or repossessed vehicles financed thru VW/Audi?


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DanB36 said:

But that really isn't the issue here. There's no fix yet for any of the 3.0 TDIs. If those cars truly are buybacks (and I can't think of an alternative explanation for the "titled to manufacturer" entry--lemon law buybacks, maybe?), then there's no way they should be out on the open market.

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That is exactly my thinking as well.

duratitus said:

What date does the carfax show the titles being issued to the manufacturer?

I'd like to see the for sale listing for these cars.

What auction were they sold at?
Were you present at the auction, or how did you come across the info?
How about posting the VIN for all three vehicles?

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Dates are all end of July / mid August which is consistent with dates of the 3.0s that I did buyback in beginning of July.

Manheim Auction

I purchased 1 of them and know the person who purchased others from this seller.

I am more than happy to share information privately. Don't want VINs to be in google results.

psd1 said:

I agree, add the links and carfax.

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See my previous reply. PM me your email and I'll be happy to share.

drsven said:

I think lemon buybacks sounds reasonable, but wouldn't the carfax indicate this? How about lease returns which were not processed under the buyback, or repossessed vehicles financed thru VW/Audi?
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Nope, none of those would cause "title to manufacturer"

TDIforDays said:

That is exactly my thinking as well.



Dates are all end of July / mid August which is consistent with dates of the 3.0s that I did buyback in beginning of July.

Manheim Auction

I purchased 1 of them and know the person who purchased others from this seller.

I am more than happy to share information privately. Don't want VINs to be in google results.



See my previous reply. PM me your email and I'll be happy to share.



Nope, none of those would cause "title to manufacturer"

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If you now own this vehicle, isn't the selling dealership information on the title? Why not just reach out to them and ask?

Thanks for you reply.

I don't need the VIN's.

Definitely sounds like a unique situation.

Update!!!

As I expected - cars were obtained illegally by the seller! Got contacted today by Manheim Auction stating that they received a letter from VW with list of VINs that have "ownership issue." This seller has been selling cars like this for 3 months now and finally VW caught on to it - my guess is because cars they sold 3 months ago finally got an answer from VW on second claims and they started to investigate how its possible

Auction is refunding money for the car thats on the VW list and will begin investigation and legal process against the seller.

There is absolutely NO explanation that I can think of except for stolen cars and fraudulent titles.

Nice follow through.

gotta wonder if any are branded titles...that would be quite interesting! for the branded title thread... another reason for hold ups?

forrest resto`s said:

gotta wonder if any are branded titles...that would be quite interesting! for the branded title thread... another reason for hold ups?

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Not sure if you read the whole thread and my update - these cars were stolen from VW and re-sold. 100% illegal and people will go to jail if they ever find them.

Same cars as these?

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2017/09/12/vws-stolen-from-silverdome-parking-lot/

Nash_TDI said:

Same cars as these?

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2017/09/12/vws-stolen-from-silverdome-parking-lot/

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Yup those are the cars. Whoever stole them better be in Mexico already