Question (and a few observations) for the Passat mileage crowd.

Hey, quick question for the mileage crowd . . . on the 2013 Passat, might anyone know either the total fuel tank capacity, when filled to the neck, *or* how much is typically left when the range reports zero? Not planning to push that hard, but finally did a cross country alone (my wife is a mash and release driver . . . drops 10mpg thr second she gets behind the wheel) from Dallas to Ames, Iowa, straight up I35, Speed from 72 to 77 typically, AC running full (high 90's to 100 degrees most of the way), and pretty loaded. Hit low fuel at 730 miles, and completed the leg at 757.2, showing 50 miles more on range, giving about an 805 mile tank. (And too 17.19 to refill). As noted prior, in case I get caught, wondering what might be left. Oh, and that's 44.05 mpg calculated, and 45 as reported in the MFD . . . was hoping for better, but can't complain,considering.

This also illustrates why I have *ZERO* inteest in an e-turd as they stand today. Total stop time was 21 minutes, 6 or so of which should not have happened . . .

- Tim

We have owned our '13 Passat SEL since July of that year, so it's 4 years old, with about 61K miles on it. Since this has been our first diesel, I was cautious and have recorded each tankful since purchase. I just write the miles on the pump slip and put it in the glove box, and occasionally enter the info into Fuelly. No MFD results, this is "pencil & paper" only. The results can be seen below, which are pretty much in line with the average for this car in Fuelly. We drive probably 75% highway / 25% city. While on an interstate, I drive 75mph. On a state highway, I drive 10 over, which usually means 65. Elsewhere, I drive the posted limit.

Congratulations on the excellent MPG. There are several threads re: NMS tank capacity. IIRC, 18.5gal, but someone will correct me.
It's a bizarre, contorted tank shape, and the problem is getting the last 2 gallons in the tank. Veterans here advise a slightly uphill vehicle position (yes, it's counter-intuitive), as well as leaving the engine running (it's diesel, no fire risk). This seems to work for most. Of course, veterans also advise against challenging the fragile HPFP by running too low on fuel, as fuel temps increase. Also, of course, you don't want to run the tank dry.
The 2012s, maybe into 2013 production, the fuel gauge wouldn't ever show full, or if it did, would drop some as soon as the vehicle left the fuel station.
(Since I own 3 "e-turds", you might be interested to note: 2014 Avalon Hybrid, drove from Ft. Worth to Wash. DC, I30-I40-I81-I66, 75-80mph, fully loaded, through all the hills...2 tanks averaged 43mpg...and a whole lot less stink than your so-called "clean diesel." ...and careful: your diesel turd has significantly more stench than our E-turds!)
FYI, my 2012 and 2014 NMS Passat TDIs averaged 44-46mpg for the same route, same ambient temps...)

((I'm sure several are wondering why I continue lurking, after bailing on our VWs. I'm fascinated by the CR technology, and the industry's attempt to clean it up. Also, the Toyota Hybrid forums are BORING!!!!...no dramatic threads of any kind...and very little excitement. Weeks pass w/o any posts...)

Sounds about right for your speed, I'd say drop it to 70 max and you'd be pushing 46-48mpg. I never was able to get more than 17 gallons into the '12 Passat, the wife is way to conservative when fueling. The MFI distance to empty loves the long highway runs as it knows what you're current consumption is and can "plan" better. Doing short jaunts, I feel it errs on the side of caution.

IMO the DSG of the '12-'14 is the biggest robber of MPG soon as you cross 70mph.

Also a hybrid isn't an eturd its a semi eturd. There's a reason you didn't take the leaf on a cross country trip.

Here's a short video on a Tesla road trip cross country:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3qMSNWpkjs

740GLE said:

Sounds about right for your speed, I'd say drop it to 70 max and you'd be pushing 46-48mpg. I never was able to get more than 17 gallons into the '12 Passat, the wife is way to conservative when fueling. The MFI distance to empty loves the long highway runs as it knows what you're current consumption is and can "plan" better. Doing short jaunts, I feel it errs on the side of caution.

IMO the DSG of the '12-'14 is the biggest robber of MPG soon as you cross 70mph.

Also a hybrid isn't an eturd its a semi eturd. There's a reason you didn't take the leaf on a cross country trip.

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BWAHAHAHA!

We enjoy 2cents/mile city driving, though, for 85miles. Beats the JSW 29mpg, NMS 32mpg, Avalon Hybrid 38mpg, CMax 43mpg...and...zero carbon footprint, except for the tire/brake dust...

rustycat said:

Here's a short video on a Tesla road trip cross country:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3qMSNWpkjs

Click to expand...

For all intents and purposes, this is a commercial for fanboys. But it does illustrate one thing: Tesla may be fine for urban transportation, but I don't care how many "superstations" or whatever they've got, I am not buying a car where I have to stop every few hundred miles and play solitaire for an hour or two while the thing juices up. Endit.

That was partly my point . . . on the route I just ran, there are at least 600 miles with nothing more than a wall plug to charge from . . .Today's leg was 585 miles, which I drove with zero stops . . . (looked like a tad over 49MPG this time - more data once I calc it).

@tdiatlast Stink? Never smelled a thing from either of ours . . .

And anyone who fantasizes a 'zero carbon footprint' with an e-car is on crack . . . You don't get to pick the source of energy when travelling, and it could well be good old coal!

Oh, and my main question wasn't so much total capacity, but determining what remains when the MFD range shows as zero . . .

Fuel remaining after MFD shows zero: I'm not sure you can tell how much fuel is remaining when the MFD range shows zero. I don't believe anyone here has deliberately run the tank dry (why don't you try it?), but assumption (which is dangerous) is it's probably a gallon or less.

E-turd cars are obviously evolving. It's obviously not feasible at this point in time for e-turd cars to take long trips.

No fantasizing (nor any use of crack here!) about "zero carbon footprint" (I was referring to my Leaf, of course, not the hybrids). The concept is still ramping up, but it is inevitable. I'm even aware of the extremely toxic epoxy fumes emitted in the curing process of wind turbine blades, but it's a one-time event, and lifespan of the blades is ???

Diesel stink? It's totally delusional to think your car doesn't "stink" (now who's on crack? HA!). Of course, you can't smell it, it's behind you, and besides it's the SBD (silent but deadly) stink I'm referring to, which is more deadly than the large soot the DPF filters!! If you don't believe me, run your car in a closed garage for a few minutes and report here what you smell!

Yeah, but where is your electricity coming from?

https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=TX

Given the stated sources of electrical power in TX, I would say you are far from zero carbon footprint... You're just moving the footprint a little further up the supply chain.

Good question.

Green Mountain Energy, distributed by Oncor (distributes all electricity in the FW region). Their power comes entirely from wind, unless you can prove otherwise.

https://www.greenmountainenergy.com/our-story/markets-we-serve-projects-we-support/

Next question?

tdiatlast said:

Good question.

Green Mountain Energy, distributed by Oncor (distributes all electricity in the FW region). Their power comes entirely from wind, unless you can prove otherwise.

https://www.greenmountainenergy.com/our-story/markets-we-serve-projects-we-support/

Next question?

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Unless I can prove otherwise? Doesn't work that way.

You would have to prove that you're somehow magically removed from the grid mix in TX that obtains power from a base of about 70% fossil fuel sources.

Also, you park your cars on non-windy days?

I will give tdiatlast some credit, TX does have stupid amount of wind power.

Also those power brokers nothing more than commodity hawks, the closet generator to your house is powering you house, may be that massive solar field or the coal/oil plant. You may be paying some wind farm in Idaho for their output don't fool yourself its powering your car.

I will agree that eventually if enough people buy 100% green credits at their 10-20% premium there will be a tipping point where those local oil plants wont be profitable, and then we'll be in a world of hurt.

Also how many green mountains are there in TX these days?

tdiatlast said:

Good question.

Green Mountain Energy, distributed by Oncor (distributes all electricity in the FW region). Their power comes entirely from wind, unless you can prove otherwise.

https://www.greenmountainenergy.com/our-story/markets-we-serve-projects-we-support/

Next question?

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So, considering that it comes from a *common* grid, you can guarantee with total certainty, that *every* electron that moves from your wiring to your car came from a wind source? Didn't think so . . . And certainly not on dead calm, high load days . . .

To the original topic, before I was hijacked by the e-turd crowd, second leg got 47.14 MPG hand calc, 49.3 indicated on MFD. 580.4 miles, speeds more typically 60 to 70 . . . zero stops, and zero chargers on this leg - IE "e-turd ineligible" . . .

No plans to run it dry, but figured someone had gone lower than I did and noted what they replaced, giving an idea what they could do.

Oh, and on last refill, car gave a range projection of 880 miles! Schweet! Gotta love diesel . . .

Push it to 800 on the tank you know you want to!

I would have! I just ran out of trip . . . . The last leg, the car claimed it had 880 in it . . . (and I would have needed a submarine to go that much farther!)

tadawson said:

That was partly my point . . . on the route I just ran, there are at least 600 miles with nothing more than a wall plug to charge from . . .Today's leg was 585 miles, which I drove with zero stops . . . (looked like a tad over 49MPG this time - more data once I calc it).

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The Tesla Supercharger network covers the I-35 corridor from Dallas to Ames. Denton, Ardmore, Oklahoma City, Perry, Wichita, Topeka, and Des Moines. There are also numerous destination chargers along the route for recharging while you sleep.

You certainly wouldn't be able to make the trip with as few stops as you did it in, but it's absolutely possible to make the trek in an EV. If you fully charged on your one sleep stop, mid-stint charging would add about 2.5 hours to the trip. If you were traveling with family, most of that time would probably get added anyway between additional food, rest and sight seeing stops.

And that's just with today's cars and today's charging network. Signs are pointing toward 3x our current charging speeds in the next year or two.

Sounds like a good trip though! The Passat is a great highway cruiser.

Try Duluth MN into the UP of MI. NADA . . . . and questionable between Minneapolis and Duluth, leaving close to a 400 mile stretch of SOL (Remember, close only counts in horeshoes and hand grenades . . . need 100% or it's still a complete fail). Oh, and when I travel with the family, we may add 2 stops and maybe 40 minutes. We drive to go places, not to d*ck around getting there . . . and in the places we do stop, I have never seen chargers, and have no desire to alter my/our routine just so I can downgrade to an e-turd. It offers me *NOTHING* I want, need, or find beneficial, can't you grasp that?

The Passat, however, it very close to ideal for this trip. Were I younger, I'd consider doing it straight through . . . but no more . . . a couple of years ago we hit some crazy fishing tourny or something and couldn't find any rooms in 200 miles once, and did it straight, but that was rough. As it was, this time had one more stop than intended . . . Have I mentioned that I loathe wasting time when travelling?

tadawson: You continue to angrily argue against the concept of electric cars, as if the e-car crowd is trying to force you to give up your car, and your love of diesel engineering.

No one is forcing anything, just simply offering an alternate view on achieving higher MPG. The title of your thread faked me into thinking the "...Passat mileage crowd..." might actually be interested in such a discussion.

E-cars and hybrids are an OPTION, and e-cars specifically, and obviously, at this time, are only feasible with very severe restrictions.

I apologize for provoking this entire hijacking of this thread. I'm sure there are more appropriate areas where the e-car/diesel comparison/discussion is taking place, hopefully with a more civilized tone.

As VeeDub said, "The Passat is a great highway cruiser." I totally agree, and hope you, and others, continue to enjoy the NMS Passat.

tadawson said:

Try Duluth MN into the UP of MI. NADA . . . . and questionable between Minneapolis and Duluth, leaving close to a 400 mile stretch of SOL (Remember, close only counts in horeshoes and hand grenades . . . need 100% or it's still a complete fail). Oh, and when I travel with the family, we may add 2 stops and maybe 40 minutes. We drive to go places, not to d*ck around getting there . . . and in the places we do stop, I have never seen chargers, and have no desire to alter my/our routine just so I can downgrade to an e-turd. It offers me *NOTHING* I want, need, or find beneficial, can't you grasp that?

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What? you don't want to spend 2 hours at the truck stop charging stations looking at souvenirs and dining on the finest cuisine known to man?

Pffftt lame, that's the only reason we go places, we have the most amazing collection of beer cozies and coffee cups from nothing but the finest choke and puke rest stops!

Better Place, an Israeli company had the right idea - build cars with standardized, removable battery packs, and set up swap stations across the country.

5 min swap = no waiting or being forced to sample truck-stop cuisine.

Build up the network enough, and electric cars no longer have to suffer their range anxiety achilles heel.

740GLE said:

What? you don't want to spend 2 hours at the truck stop charging stations looking at souvenirs and dining on the finest cuisine known to man?

Pffftt lame, that's the only reason we go places, we have the most amazing collection of beer cozies and coffee cups from nothing but the finest choke and puke rest stops!

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Hey, don't forget the potential encounters with the "lot lizards" as well!

Nope, I can omit that with no remorse . . . Oh, and good luck finding a truck stop much north of Duluth . . . I really don't think that folks consider how limited facilities are in a lot of rural America, even today . . . The best you can typically find is a mom and pop quickee mart with a few pumps, and maybe one exterior 15A outlet, that they likely don't allow you to use to charge . . .

tdiatlast said:

tadawson: You continue to angrily argue against the concept of electric cars, as if the e-car crowd is trying to force you to give up your car, and your love of diesel engineering.

No one is forcing anything, just simply offering an alternate view on achieving higher MPG. The title of your thread faked me into thinking the "...Passat mileage crowd..." might actually be interested in such a discussion.

E-cars and hybrids are an OPTION, and e-cars specifically, and obviously, at this time, are only feasible with very severe restrictions.

I apologize for provoking this entire hijacking of this thread. I'm sure there are more appropriate areas where the e-car/diesel comparison/discussion is taking place, hopefully with a more civilized tone.

As VeeDub said, "The Passat is a great highway cruiser." I totally agree, and hope you, and others, continue to enjoy the NMS Passat.

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Considering that there is no such thing as a e-Passat, I would have thought it was clear and obvious . . . My question was about range, remaining fuel vs. MFD (IE range), and to offer a few observations on my travel and mileage experience on a Passat (IE *NOT* e-car) and yes, why electric just plain does not work for me . . . . Sorry . . .

tadawson said:

Try Duluth MN into the UP of MI. NADA . . . . and questionable between Minneapolis and Duluth, leaving close to a 400 mile stretch of SOL (Remember, close only counts in horeshoes and hand grenades . . . need 100% or it's still a complete fail). Oh, and when I travel with the family, we may add 2 stops and maybe 40 minutes. We drive to go places, not to d*ck around getting there . . . and in the places we do stop, I have never seen chargers, and have no desire to alter my/our routine just so I can downgrade to an e-turd. It offers me *NOTHING* I want, need, or find beneficial, can't you grasp that?

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You seem upset. I was merely responding to your comment that your drive from Dallas to Ames did not have any charging stations beyond a wall outlet.

Now if you want to talk about Passat mileage, on my two cross-country Passat TDI road trips, I found that in on the eastern half of the US, we only had to stop and fill up once per day. The 750-ish miles of range was more than enough for a full day of driving. MPG for the east was about 42-45 MPG.

As we got out west and speed limits increased to 80 mph, our fuel economy and range dropped (as expected), requiring us to fill up prior to reaching our destination for the day. MPG out west dropped to about 38-39 MPG.

tdiatlast said:

Also, the Toyota Hybrid forums are BORING!!!!...no dramatic threads of any kind...and very little excitement. Weeks pass w/o any posts...

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FWIW, PriusChat gets quite a bit of traffic, and a lot of people talk about non-Priuses there (whether they're Toyota hybrids or other hybrid or EV products).

VeeDubTDI said:

You seem upset. I was merely responding to your comment that your drive from Dallas to Ames did not have any charging stations beyond a wall outlet.

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No, I was referring to the entire route - that was only the first leg. Perhaps I was not clear . . . And yes, I do get upset when folks try to hammer fit me into a technology that clearly fails dismally in my use case . . .

VeeDubTDI said:

Now if you want to talk about Passat mileage, on my two cross-country Passat TDI road trips, I found that in on the eastern half of the US, we only had to stop and fill up once per day. The 750-ish miles of range was more than enough for a full day of driving. MPG for the east was about 42-45 MPG.

As we got out west and speed limits increased to 80 mph, our fuel economy and range dropped (as expected), requiring us to fill up prior to reaching our destination for the day. MPG out west dropped to about 38-39 MPG.

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I just did South Bend, IN to Long Island (as in Greenport and Hampton Bays so I was all the way out east on both forks) and back.

47.531 mpg – South Bend to Ohio
50.420 mpg – Ohio to Mahwah, NJ
45.903 mpg – NYC / Long Island (mostly 30-40 mph and city plus traffic)
48.182 mpg – NYC / Long Island to Ohio
49.223 mpg – Ohio to home

This is with a DSG, did not exceed 70 mph on I-80. Also of interest - I found the two cheapest stations with diesel on LI which were less than stations in NJ and PA! To be fair, most LI stations with diesel cost more than NJ but Ohio was still the lowest in the states I traveled through.

I make very few stops so works out well with the Passat. Would not like being forced to stop by an E-whatever in order to recharge so I can continue driving. In time that may change but right now the TDI is #1 for road trips for those who like to keep moving.

VeeDubTDI said:

Now if you want to talk about Passat mileage, on my two cross-country Passat TDI road trips, I found that in on the eastern half of the US, we only had to stop and fill up once per day. The 750-ish miles of range was more than enough for a full day of driving. MPG for the east was about 42-45 MPG.

As we got out west and speed limits increased to 80 mph, our fuel economy and range dropped (as expected), requiring us to fill up prior to reaching our destination for the day. MPG out west dropped to about 38-39 MPG.

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That was my goal . . .