First Days, New Golf...

Just picked up the new Golf. Picked it up from a DC dealer who dealer transferred it from - imagine that - Langhorne. And Langhorne got it from King VW in MD. ANYWAYS, the sale worked out well and we're off.

Being my wife and I were tired, she didn't hear me state "vary the rpm's while staying under 3,800rpm." En route home, she handily dismissed my reasoned advice (educated by TDIClub.com), set the cruise control at 63mph, and wondered why I was steaming mad all the way home. Of course, there was also the reluctance at giving her the first drive. Regardless, we turned 48mpg flat for the first trip. Not bad.

All was well, however, as I took a real break-in drive around the local area the next day. Lots of stop lights, back-country roads, and long stretches of 30-55mph pendulums in 3-4th gear. And cloverleafs at 45mph. Car handles like a dream.

Those who continually stereotype the Golf as an economy car are missing the bigger picture. Yes, fuel economy is a large point to the TDI. But its primary calling card is not economy so much as "value." The handling, technological competence, refinement, power, and economy for the price paid really says "value." Now, that's an initial impression which might change over time. But there it is.

Just tossing this one out to the crowd to see where it goes.

I wouldnt call the golf a value compared to other high MPG cars of it's type, especially if you consider cost to own after the sale, but they are all around nicer cars. You are paying a significant difference for it after all.

Perhaps / Recalibration

It's fair to say rose-colored glasses might be tinting the picture.

Interested to know what "high mpg cars of its type" you have in mind. If you're talking Honda or Prius, I categorize them differently but am open to a "recalibration," if you will.

Damn - how much higher was Chris's price??

c17chief said:

I wouldnt call the golf a value compared to other high MPG cars of it's type, especially if you consider cost to own after the sale, but they are all around nicer cars. You are paying a significant difference for it after all.

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VW's have very good resale -- even Consumer Reports acknowledges that one. Even though VW has "fair ta middlin'" reliability, people love their Dubs, and the resale value shows.

That's all the more true for TDIs, which hold their resale value very well, even with high miles. Priuses seem to hold value as well. But I don't think you'll see Ford Fiestas or Chevy Cruze Ecos doing well resale-wise with 150k+ miles down the road.

IMAAron - didn't actually call Chris. Was led to the DC dealer through a car buying service. The DC dealer beat my local dealer by nearly $2000.00. 2011 Golf TDI, 4-door, 6MT, Sunroof, Cold Wx Pkg, Bluetooth (the mandatory "option"), Mats pkg., state tax, title, tags, doc fees, etc. = $25,200.00. Maybe I got screwed, maybe I didn't...

It was still a hike to get to DC, let alone Philly.

Fresh info: car was originally delivered to Wexford, PA. Glad nobody else wanted it; I like it. Fits the bill quite well.

Sounds about right, I got my 2 door/mt/sunroof/cold weather/mats for just over 24k.

I wouldn't worry about the cruise control too much: your engine will be breaking in for 20-60k miles.

MayorDJQ - Thanks. I got over the first trip rather quickly, but man, was I annoyed at the time! Wasted energy. I'm about to take a spin right now, just for fun.

Congratulations on the new Golf ! I just picked up one recently as well. long story short ...love the car, not so much the dealership I purchased from. time will tell the rest.

first things I got...harbor freight oil extractor (the metal industrial tank kind), scotch guard (not installed yet), frost heater (not installed yet), VCDS, -- nix'ed the DRLs, and the horn beep upon lock confirmation. added remote window control. will probably have to un-do these before going back to dealer to fix some issues I had at delivery.

love.. the fog lights that turn on to light the corner up at low speed in a turn, the hill hold braking, the height and length adjustable arm rest. wished they had auto lights/euro lights stock as well as interlagos material (gti only) or "leather" option.

TDI_Dan said:

VCDS, -- nix'ed the DRLs, and the horn beep upon lock confirmation. added remote window control. will probably have to un-do these before going back to dealer to fix some issues I had at delivery.

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No you won't. With the exception of the DRL delete, some dealers will make those changes for you, upon request. None of those changes will have any affect on your warranty.

I still don't understand the desire to disable the DRLs. They are a valid safety precaution, especially when you have idiots out there who don't turn their headlights on when it's dark outside or raining hard. Personally, I think they look good, and don't want them disabled. And the extra $5 a year it might cost in light bulbs really is a null factor too.

So what am I missing? Is it some kind of "coolness" factor? Is disabling break lights going to be the next fad?

If you can't see an oncoming car in broad daylight if it doesn't have its headlights or DRLs on, you need to consider giving up driving.

I don't think disabling DRLs and brake lights are on the same page. Drivers operated safely for decades without DRLs, and can continue to do so for years to come.

I disabled my DRLs because I'm smart enough to turn on the headlights when needed. It also allows me to make full use of the European headlight switch I installed.

In my opinion, DRLs belong in the same category as automatic door locks and automatic seatbelts. I don't need my car to do these things for me.

MayorDJQ said:

If you can't see an oncoming car in broad daylight if it doesn't have its headlights or DRLs on, you need to consider giving up driving.

I don't think disabling DRLs and brake lights are on the same page. Drivers operated safely for decades without DRLs, and can continue to do so for years to come.

I disabled my DRLs because I'm smart enough to turn on the headlights when needed. It also allows me to make full use of the European headlight switch I installed.

In my opinion, DRLs belong in the same category as automatic door locks and automatic seatbelts. I don't need my car to do these things for me.

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You seem to have missed my earlier point. The DRLs are not for your benefit, they are for everyone else on the street when you are driving. While your vision might be 20/20, there are a lot of elderly people out there who have horrible eyesight, yet we still let them drive. Additionally, while you might remember to turn on your headlights whenever you're supposed to, many people don't. I've seen hundreds of idiots driving around with no exterior illumination when it's pitch black outside. I don't know how they even see where their going, but it's certainly a safety risk for OTHER people (and technically them to).

My break analogy was meant to be sarcastic, but it seems that went over your head.

I just don't see any real justifiable reason to disable them. Maybe for the euro-switch add-on, since it has some benefit. But to just disable them to disable them doesn't seem smart to me.

enki said:

. . . . And the extra $5 a year it might cost in light bulbs really is a null factor too.

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Without going into any of the other DRL vs no DRL stuff, HIDs are not $5/year in wear cheap..

WVU TDI said:

Without going into any of the other DRL vs no DRL stuff, HIDs are not $5/year in wear cheap..

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Actually, they can be close if you don't overpay for bulbs. As of this spring, the dealer wanted $90 for a DS1 bulb. I bought it for $37 from Amazon to replace the 6 year old bulb in a Touareg. The OEM was a Philips, the replacement a Sylvania.

Considering the bulb does double-duty as the headlight, I'd think the wear costs per side to run DRLs is close to $5.

I agree with Enki. Anything that makes me more visible to other drivers is a good idea in my book. There are so many careless and just apparently plain impaired drivers on the road these days. My DRLs stay on.

enki said:

You seem to have missed my earlier point. The DRLs are not for your benefit, they are for everyone else on the street when you are driving. While your vision might be 20/20, there are a lot of elderly people out there who have horrible eyesight, yet we still let them drive. Additionally, while you might remember to turn on your headlights whenever you're supposed to, many people don't. I've seen hundreds of idiots driving around with no exterior illumination when it's pitch black outside. I don't know how they even see where their going, but it's certainly a safety risk for OTHER people (and technically them to).

My break analogy was meant to be sarcastic, but it seems that went over your head.

I just don't see any real justifiable reason to disable them. Maybe for the euro-switch add-on, since it has some benefit. But to just disable them to disable them doesn't seem smart to me.

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Sarcasm usually doesn't come through very well in print, so your "break" analogy simply came across as a statement.

Idiots are idiots. When I see an idiot at dusk with no headlights, I flash my hi-beams at them. Mass requires headlights from .5 hours after sunrise to .5 hours before dusk. There's no fixing stupid.

I didn't miss any of your points. DRLs are foolish. There was a head-on crash in front of my apartment earlier this week involving two cars that came standard with DRLs. The DRLs didn't keep the 92 year old woman from turning right in front of the oncoming woman who was chatting on her cell phone. If the elderly people out there need DRLs shining in their eyes to let them know there's a car coming at them, they need to give up driving.

DRLs are not a safety device. Seat belts are a safety device. Air bags are a safety device. Crumple zones are a safety device. DRLs are like the warning label on my lawn mower telling me to not reach underneath while the engine is running.

MayorDJQ said:

Sarcasm usually doesn't come through very well in print, so your "break" analogy simply came across as a statement.

Idiots are idiots. When I see an idiot at dusk with no headlights, I flash my hi-beams at them. Mass requires headlights from .5 hours after sunrise to .5 hours before dusk. There's no fixing stupid.

I didn't miss any of your points. DRLs are foolish. There was a head-on crash in front of my apartment earlier this week involving two cars that came standard with DRLs. The DRLs didn't keep the 92 year old woman from turning right in front of the oncoming woman who was chatting on her cell phone. If the elderly people out there need DRLs shining in their eyes to let them know there's a car coming at them, they need to give up driving.

DRLs are not a safety device. Seat belts are a safety device. Air bags are a safety device. Crumple zones are a safety device. DRLs are like the warning label on my lawn mower telling me to not reach underneath while the engine is running.

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Regardless of whether or not you agree with my point about the usefulness of DRLs, how can you say that they aren't a safety device? They are clearly designed to increase you car's visibility to other drivers. They serve no real purpose to you (outside of possibly preventing an accident), but they might help others see your car is coming. Is it a guarantee? Of course not. But they are definitely installed (and required by law on new cars if I recall correctly) for safety.

Regarding your comments about idiots and elderly people who shouldn't be driving, but are on the roads nonetheless, I agree with you. Unfortunately, nothing will change that fact. So anything you can do to increase the odds in your favor is worth it IMHO.

Additionally, since I usually leave work around 6:30PM, which is close to dusk around here by the time I get home, I find them useful in that they do provide just enough extra illumination of the road when I don't need my full headlights.

On a side note, my previous car (before my Golf TDI) was a Saab. It did not have DRLs, but the headlights turned off when the car did (I soooo miss that). So I actually left my headlights on all the time. I had the car for about three years and didn't have to change a single bulb the entire time. So even if the "benefit" is minimal, the cost to me was zilch.

MayorDJQ said:

In my opinion, DRLs belong in the same category as automatic door locks and automatic seatbelts. I don't need my car to do these things for me.

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So you're smart enough to turn your headlights on every time you go from a wide-open-sunny lane to a shady lane? And you turn them off again when it gets sunny? And when you get into a shady lane again you turn them back on? In tunnels and under bridges, too?

I'm impressed.

That's the reason the Europeans came out with DRLs -- for those daylight situations where the car is in the shade or other cover, and it's easier for other cars to see you when you have some sort of lights on.

enki said:

I just don't see any real justifiable reason to disable them. Maybe for the euro-switch add-on, since it has some benefit. But to just disable them to disable them doesn't seem smart to me.

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I actually did disable the DRLs on my Mk4 Golf, but only because I got tired of replacing headlight bulbs all the time -- which was what VW used for the DRLs on those cars. Even with them disabled, I only got about 20k miles out of each bulb. Running around with only 1 headlight is a nuisance, and it always seemed to be in winter at the AutoZone that I was trying to replace them with freezing hands.

Now that I've got a JSW, I've left them alone. The DRLs are different bulbs than the headlights, so even if one goes out, I'm not headlight-less. And I actually haven't had to replace ANY bulbs on this car now in almost 40k miles of ownership.

The DRLs on the Golf and 10+ JSW are a second filament of the high-beam bulbs. You still have full lighting if they blow.

For MayorDJQ: you are quoting anecdotal evidence. Statistically it has been proven that DRLs reduce collision risk, especially on 2-lane roads. They have been mandated in Sweden for ages, and in Canada since 1989.

We don't seem to be suffering too much from them... although some DRL designs out there are stupid, especially cars with electronic instrument lighting where the DRLs don't light up tail lights. The Golf though has a protection against this, as it gets dark out the dash lighting progressively fades to black so that if it's dark enough, you won't have any dash lights. Presumably that should wake one up to turning on the main headlights.

I believe in DRLs. Nearly got clobbered at dusk by a grey car on a grey road on a grey day. No lights, almost impossible to see it. Yeah, you'll say I'm one of those idiots who shouldn't be driving. Well, tell that to the DC10 crew that flew straight into a mountain in VFR conditions in Antarctica. Optical effects do exist, and DRLs are one little protection against that, and it's also the reason I fly with my landing light on all the time. Yeah, it's 40 bucks to replace the 250 watt sealed-beam lamp, but that's cheap compared to a mid-air.

frugality said:

So you're smart enough to turn your headlights on every time you go from a wide-open-sunny lane to a shady lane? And you turn them off again when it gets sunny? And when you get into a shady lane again you turn them back on? In tunnels and under bridges, too?

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Here in Western Mass there are no tunnels, so that's not an issue. If the shady lane is shady enough, then yes, I'll turn on the headlights, but unless there's a full blown solar eclipse going on shade isn't too dark.

I usually try to go over bridges rather than under them. But for the underpasses, I'll turn them on when needed.

How many people drove cars w/o DRLs that have never had an accident? Hundreds of thousands? Tens, hundreds of Millions?

Here's a quote from the IIHS:

Federal researchers, using data collected nationwide from 1995-2001, concluded that there was a 5 percent decline in daytime, two-vehicle, opposite-direction crashes and a 12 percent decline in fatal crashes with pedestrians and bicyclists. However, a 2008 federal study concluded that DRLs have no significant effect on either of these crash types.

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Wow, 5% reduction down to no significant effect. I'd say that's convincing.

MayorDJQ said:

How many people drove cars w/o DRLs that have never had an accident? Hundreds of thousands? Tens, hundreds of Millions?

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Lots of people never wore seatbelts and 'never had an accident'. That doesn't mean that seatbelts are not a good safety device.

MayorDJQ said:

Here's a quote from the IIHS:

Wow, 5% reduction down to no significant effect. I'd say that's convincing.

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Partial statistics don't make for a convincing argument. It makes sense in those cases. Of course the pedestrian and bicyclist thing is a non-issue. And for opposite-direction crashes....well, yes, you are obviously looking straight ahead. Where the DRLs make a difference is people pulling out of side roads and driveways, giving a short glance left and right, and not seeing a car in the shade coming around the bend.....and they pull out right in front and get T-boned. There I'm sure you WILL see an improvement with DRLs.

As a motorcyclist, I understand the benefits of daytime running lights.

I plan on getting a euroswitch. The one mod I don't understand is disabling the auto door lock at 10 mph. You can still open the car with it locked from the inside. It's kind of a wasted lock cycle but does keep people from carjacking at a light. Not that ive had that happen but Detriot isn't that far from me and it does happen there. I didn't want my drls because, like my reason for killing the horn beep on lock is out of consideration. If I pull in to a driveway late at night, they light up the neighboring houses. If that didn't wake someone, the horn beep does. I don't want to draw attention to myself when I get home late. Just me. My last car was American, over 8 years old and 94000 miles with drls and they have never burnt out. It also had auto lights which on occasion I would switch to parking and fogs in the drive as to not shine the neighbors. They should thank me. My garage lights light the drive so I'm not driving in total darkness. I did read a study on drls and from what I recall, there wasn't much evidence that it helped in the states. I recall GM did it in an attempt to sell cars more so than safety. Apparently the implementation was poor. I'd have to find the article again. I ride a motorcycle too. It's a good idea for that in my opinion. it might have been nice if I had the option of on or off but not a big deal.

Following up on the New Golf...

The car is now approaching 9,000 miles.

Last week, I brought the car in for the 23J9/V5 injection line recall and ONLY the recall work, as I wanted to wait until 10,000 miles for the initial service, per resources listed below (see links).

Once the recall work was performed, my wife noticed that the MFI now reads "Service in 10000 miles or 365 days."

Documentation from the dealership states that only the recall work was performed (#2 line wasn't replaced, just the dampers).

So, the question: why would the service interval have been reset if ONLY the recall work were performed?

Also, I will probably use this thread to create a running record of experiences with this vehicle. To that end, it has been quite decent so far. I had one occasion where I made 51 mpg from the Hampton Roads area to Richmond, VA. On other occasions, I've encountered a vibration/mild chatter from the engine when cold. It usually goes away once the engine comes to operating temperature. No noticeable impact on performance, though.

Lastly, the dealership documentation reads "23J9/02" with a job code 8911. Anyone know resources to translate?

-DSLPWR

Initial service references:
1. www.vw.com/en/owners/parts-and-accessories/service/carefree-maintenance.html
2. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=252501
3. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=332008

DSLPWR said:

Following up on the New Golf...

The car is now approaching 9,000 miles.

Last week, I brought the car in for the 23J9/V5 injection line recall and ONLY the recall work, as I wanted to wait until 10,000 miles for the initial service, per resources listed below (see links).

Once the recall work was performed, my wife noticed that the MFI now reads "Service in 10000 miles or 365 days."

Documentation from the dealership states that only the recall work was performed (#2 line wasn't replaced, just the dampers).

So, the question: why would the service interval have been reset if ONLY the recall work were performed?

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I would guess force of habit on the tech's part. Look under the hood for signs of an oil change. The good one is usually oil on the white mesh covering of the EGR pipe. Oil drips running down the filter canister is another clue. Since it's not on the receipt, I doubt they did the service. Resetting the service reminder is simple and can be done in the MFD menu. When you do the actual service, just reset it again.

If it were me (and I planned to let the dealer do the service) I would have had the service done. 1,000 miles early won't make any big difference in the long run.

10k service was not performed at the local dealership responsible for recall work.
10k service was performed at the selling dealership over the weekend.
The return trip performance was as follows:
197 miles, 3hrs travel time (exact), average speed 66mph, fuel economy was 48.2mpg.
Car ran well. Now at 9,400+/- miles.

good thread...keep filling us in. Mine has been flawless as well. The only thing that bugs me is that Graphite pearl paint mars and marks VERY easily. shows everything. Next time Ice blue or Silver.

Over 10k miles, now in Germany. Back stateside, you really don't have an opportunity to fully appreciate this car. I can cruise 100-120mph and still earn just over 30mpg. Averaging 70-80mph yields upper 30's. And at these speeds, the aerodynamics get the car tight on the asphalt, so the handling remains very, very smooth. Bottom line: the car shines at speeds you can't normally, legally sustain stateside.

People have mentioned the cost of replacing bulbs as a minor factor, but I didn't see anyone mention the cost in FUEL of having the DRL's always on. I'm not sure what (small) amount of fuel it is, but it is definitely some, rather than none.

On older, non-TDI/VW boards, I used to mention this for headlights, and was invariably attacked by people saying that electrical accessories in cars (lights, defroster, 200 Amp stereo, etc.) cost nothing to run because they alternator is always spinning no matter what. Yes, it's spinning, but it takes more effort to spin when it's generating power.

My guess is a tenth of an mpg or so decline with DRL's on.

From a web search: "Transport Canada estimated that DRLs could add anywhere from $3 to more than $40 each year in extra fuel costs -- which was back before fuel prices climbed to record heights in 2008 -- while other government bodies, like the United States National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, state that DRLs decrease fuel efficiency by only a "fraction of a mile per gallon" [source: IIHS]. A European study adds to the confusion with its estimated fuel penalty between 0.5 and 1.5 percent [source: California Energy Commission]."

Another way to calculate it would be to take the DRL wattage and convert it to horsepower. If they are 60 watts total (a guess), and 746 watts per horsepower, the DRLs are consuming a bit under 1/10 of a horsepower. From there, it's not straightforward to convert this to diesel used, but it does give an idea of how much power DRLs use.