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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas

VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old November 1st, 2008, 11:34   #1
Stuart Eng
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Default DSG Rattle

I was changing my oil today and was underneath the car making sure I didn't have any leaks and noticed a random rattle coming from the transmission case. It kind of sounds like a loose pebble being chinked around. It is not very loud you can barely hear it over the engine idle. If I grabbed both driveshafts i could feel the vibration transmitted thru them. If I put my hand on the tranny case I could feel it also. It happens every 2-3 seconds, smooth idle CLINK, 2-3 seconds smooth idle Clink. It sounds like the noise that an auto clutch makes on a mini bike or go cart if anyone is familiar with that. If you crawl out from underneath car it is no longer audible. Car runs great and transmission operates flawlessly except for this noise. 2006 DSG Manu. date 2/06 DSG service perfomed 39k, 505.1 oil changes every 10k, 65k on odo. If anybody can shed some light on this I'd appreciate it. Having a DSG has scared me since I joined the club and have been educated. Thanks
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Old November 1st, 2008, 11:43   #2
El Dobro
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According to the DSG fluid change procedure, the oil moves in surges. Maybe that's the valve or whatever it is that controls the surges.
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Old November 1st, 2008, 14:42   #3
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Most likely the DMF. Have it checked as soon as possible. If you are still under warranty bring it to the dealer at once. Search for DMF (dual mass flywheel). Mine grenaded and put a hole on the DSG housing. The DMF and DSG was replaced under warranty. There has been many occurances of these.
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Old November 1st, 2008, 15:56   #4
Stuart Eng
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Default Dealer visit

Thanks for replys to all. Stopped at dealer and talked to tech (car is out of warranty) he stated he had not heard of symptoms I was talking about. When I asked what he suggested he said drive it till it dies and put in a rebuilt unit. Isn't the tranny servicible? I would hope I could just repair the problem. Anyone out there had the DMF replaced? What was the cost? I really hope someone has a better theory or info b4 I have these knuckleheads tear into my tranny. Any ideas what it could be? We also talked about fluid surge but he said he hadn't heard a DSG do this (make the noise) but admitted he had not spent much time servicing DSG's. Flipside what did you mean search for DMF? Thanks again.

Last edited by Stuart Eng; November 1st, 2008 at 16:11.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 07:23   #5
flipside
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search tool for the forum. A result is the thread below.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...hlight=dmf+dsg

User crosley just replaced the dmf on his car.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...hlight=dmf+dsg

You are better off replacing the DMF as soon as possible. Waiting for it to grenade may cost you a tranny as well. It is not the tranny that is the problem, it is the flywheel.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 13:36   #6
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its the dmf. when i changed my timing belt it quit for a while. then started back. i had 121500 when i changed my dmf
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 00:59   #7
Stuart Eng
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Default Wonderful DMF's

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrenchman30
its the dmf. when i changed my timing belt it quit for a while. then started back. i had 121500 when i changed my dmf
Great, just what I need b4 the holidays a huge repair bill. Have 65k and need to do timing belt and DSG service at 80k. Like I said noise is barely audible. Should I wait and monitor noise until I get these services done? Or am I playing with a hand grenade? Cost wise is it best to do any of these services together to prevent duplication of labor? How loud did yours get b4 you noticed it and were there any other symptoms that indicated it was going south? Thanks Stu
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 06:04   #8
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if it is barely audible, it is probably starting to go. Here's another thread that the rattle is audible.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=229212
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 08:58   #9
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Well I'm in the same boat. My wife has noticed the rattle and while changing the oil yesterday I narrowed it down to the bellhousing. I logged in here and searched DSG flywheel and OMG I was frightened by what I found.

I don't know how I missed this in my research before buying this car. We have put about 3k miles on it since we bought it used.The car is of course out of warranty. I will be replacing the DMF next weekend at a cost of about $700 for parts.

Here is part of a letter I sent to the NTHSA about the combined experiences from this site alone.

Anyone who has their old DMF please do not discard it. Please send me a pm. I am trying to collect samples of the failed part.

The Volkwagen TDI 1.9l engine when coupled to the DSG( direct shift gear) transmission has an extremely high failure rate of the DMF (Dual Mass Flywheel). Failures have occurred between 10k and 100k miles. The internal construction of the flywheel is improper and will separate leading to the total failure of the unit.
When the unit fails it causes a very specific and potentially deadly set of circumstances.
The DMF can separate and then fracture into large shrapnel type pieces. This shrapnel will the cause the transmission and possibly the engine to seize. When the seizure occurs is causes the front tires to lock and subsequent loss of control of the vehicle resulting in possible injury or death.
The shrapnel can also cause the failure of the transmission case resulting it the loss of pressurized transmission fluid. This fluid can contact the turbocharger and result in an under hood fire. Catastrophic engine failure is common as well.

VWA(Volkswagen of America) is aware of this problem and has redesigned the DMF. The new design has not failed. The DMF has been recalled in the European Union as a safety concern . VWA has been successful in not covering this repair under even it's standard warranty. No voluntary recall has been issued.

I currently have an example of the failed part available.

This model has the potential to cause injury or death on a large scale if not addressed.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 15:37   #10
Stuart Eng
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Default Unfrigginbelivable!

In reply to TXOILBURNER. YOU MEAN IN EUROPE THEY HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THIS PROBLEM AND RECALLED AND VWA IS NOT? This is ridiculous! All of us that are experiencing this problem need to band together somehow and plead our case to NTHSA or VWA to get a recall. You have got the ball rolling is their anything else we can do in your opinion (Besides saving all the parts)? Maybe you could post the contact process with NTHSA and VWA in this thread and all of us could send letters. Think it would help? What about a class action lawsuit? I felt I had done my research well also so don"t feel bad. Thanks for reply, Also much thanks to Flipside.

Last edited by Stuart Eng; November 3rd, 2008 at 15:46.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 16:47   #11
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there are a few members who is noticing these and dealer will not do anything. They have since traded in their vehicles for '09 model.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 10:57   #12
PhilipM
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The DMF in my 2005.5 TDI blew over the weekend. I created a new case with the NTHSA using TXOILBURNER's note above for my example. I created a case with VWoA despite the fact that my car is at 62K+. I'm towing it to authorized dealer and will update as I know more. In the past few years, I have owned:

98 NB
00 Jetta TDI
03 Golf TDI (still have)
05.5 Jetta TDI

I also have 3 air-cooled VWs. This is the type of thing that wants me to go buy a Mini and sell my classic VWs.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 11:04   #13
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FWIW, the new DMF has a different part number. The old suffix was 'A' the new one is 'BE'. I would bet anyone with the A DMF is going to have to replace it sooner or later.

All the ones that I have taken out and replaced due to noise were A suffix. I think I have done about 6 now, and sent another 6 or so back to dealers because they were still under warranty. Dealers usually stick their head in the sand though, and state "operating within specs". Not sure how a hideous metal-on-metal banging sound that was NOT present when the car was new can be considered '"in spec", but whatever.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 06:30   #14
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Any indication the '09 DSG will have these problems? I was shopping just for a manual but wifey would really prefer an automatic the two or three times a year she might drive it...grrrrrrrrrrr.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 06:49   #15
oilhammer
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Not that I know of yet, of course most 2006s went ~80k miles before they had issues too.

We can only hope the 2009 already has a better part....but it also has 40 more hp and about 60 more tq so we'll see.

I'd get a stick if given the choice.
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