Can driving in limp mode ruin a transmission?

03PlatinumBug

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Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Location
Gainesville, FL
TDI
2003 Beetle TDI
I have an '04 Passat 2.0TDI that had it's TCM drowned by the now infamous sunroof drain leak. We had no choice but to drive it home (we were 5000 ft up a NC mountain when this happened) back to Florida in limp mode as it was Dec. 27 and NO ONE was open until Jan. 2.
We have now learned that, apparently, this drive (which we kept at a max of 60mph on the interstate) destroyed the transmission internally. We would NOT have done this under normal circumstances, but as I said, we were forced into it. The dealer has told us that the tranny fluid is black and burnt and that's why the transmission is jumping around at the shift points. The TCM has been replaced but did not help the stumbling gears.
We were informed that driving in limp mode should be safe and was designed to preserve the transmission. In hindsight, clearly this is not true. Before we shell out the big $$$, has any one else had any experience with this?
VW customer care told us, flat out, that they would offer us no relief in the costs associated with this since we are the second owners and 10K out of the warranty period.
I'm extraordinarily pi$$ed about this because all we did was park the car in the rain after Christmas and next thing I know, the passenger foot well is full of water, the TCM is ruined, and the transmission is toast. We'll be parting ways with VW permanently very shortly.
*Disgusted*....
 

MOGolf

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underneath something
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Limp mode is for low speed driving a short distance to get the car to a safe place. Going from NC to FL at 60 mph is far beyond that. You should have stopped at the closest, safest place, and towed it someplace.

Renting a truck and tow dolly to get back to FL would have been wiser.

I don't know how much you might recover due to the class action lawsuit (did you get a notice in the mail?). You might be entitled to something, but part of this was due to your own choice.
 

03PlatinumBug

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Location
Gainesville, FL
TDI
2003 Beetle TDI
Yeah, we know that NOW...
But 2 days after Christmas, 3 states away, and a LONG way from any shop that would even remotely be qualified to tell us what was going on...things looked a lot different.
Anyway, the car is getting a reman tranny on Thursday and then it's going up for sale. So's the beetle.
I know all car company's have their problems, but Volkswagen's callous attitude and vehement denial of any design flaws has just turned me off from the brand forever. This seems to be systemic throughout their organization...from every service department at every dealer all the way up to corporate customer care.
No thank you, I will continue to buy American from now on.
 

Scubanero

Veteran Member
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Location
Calgary AB
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2005 Passat Wagon
No thank you, I will continue to buy American from now on.
There are good reasons to do that, but customer care and competent service techs are not a given.
 

BioPassat

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
Ventura County
TDI
2005 VW Passat GL TDI
Limp mode ruins the tranny?!?!?!

I think this is a BS feature that VW didn't think through. I think majority of people wouldn't think limp mode for long periods of time would fry the tranny. I've fried trannys by having too much torque go through them, but never heard of ruining a tranny by having less power go through it.

Someone needs to explain this BS in more detail on why it does ruin the tranny.
 

Ski in NC

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Wilmington, NC USA
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2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
Geez... I don't think limp mode fried your tranny, I think driving with an inoperable TCM fried the tranny.

You drove that trip with a drowned TCM? The TCM is what controls the tranny clutches. With its brain scrambled who knows what gears it was in.

No excuse for TCM to be placed in a location at risk for drowning, though. That's VW's fault.
 
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BioPassat

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Apr 28, 2008
Location
Ventura County
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2005 VW Passat GL TDI
So, is it safe to assume that without the TCM functioning properly, the torque converter doesn't lock in 4th and 5th gear resulting in failed clutch bands?
 

Radman

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Montreal
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2014 Audi A6 TDI, 2014 Touareg TDI
MOGolf said:
Limp mode is for low speed driving a short distance to get the car to a safe place. Going from NC to FL at 60 mph is far beyond that. You should have stopped at the closest, safest place, and towed it someplace.

Renting a truck and tow dolly to get back to FL would have been wiser.

I don't know how much you might recover due to the class action lawsuit (did you get a notice in the mail?). You might be entitled to something, but part of this was due to your own choice.
I must have missed something... what is this Lawsuit? It may well be a USA only thing and not applicable to Canadian vehicles. More info as to what it for please?

Thanks
 

TomB

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Location
Cle Elum, Washington/Las Vegas, Nevada
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Stop blaming VW! Like GM would ever have covered it too. LOL!

The vehicle was run in a "fail" mode, for whatever justification and reasons at the time, and now VW is to blame for not stepping up to fix the issue caused by the driver?

I know it is hard to hear but someone has got to say it.
 

TomB

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Radman said:
I must have missed something... what is this Lawsuit? It may well be a USA only thing and not applicable to Canadian vehicles. More info as to what it for please?

Thanks
We all got notification and service changes related to the sunroof drain tubes on the Passats. They clog up with debris and then water leaks into the interior.

It was probably a US only thing.
 

dhuddleson

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Jul 15, 2007
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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2012 Jetta Highline TDI sedan
Got a recall notice last month for sunroof drains, but for the other VW we own, a 2003 Jetta wagon. Perhaps we are not getting one for Passat up here??? Or not yet....
 

BioPassat

Veteran Member
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Apr 28, 2008
Location
Ventura County
TDI
2005 VW Passat GL TDI
Thank God my Passat doesn't have a sunroof?!?!?! So, are you saying that if I spilled a super big gulp in the car it could potentially fry the TCM? Maybe they should have specified in the owners manual that no liquids should be brought in to the car at anytime and recall all B5 Passats to delete the cup holders and install no food or drink signs in its place. :rolleyes:

Great place for the TCM you $&#*! VW Engineers = FAIL
 
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aja8888

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Dec 25, 2007
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BioPassat said:
Great place for the TCM you $&#*! VW Engineers = FAIL
I believe the Comfort Control Module is floor level too. Let that go underwater and all kinds of funny stuff starts to happen. ;) Maybe they should have put all these modules in a waterproof housing?
 

eyetdiman

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Location
Wilmette, IL
TDI
'04 Passat TDI Sedan
I just drove mine 60 miles in limp mode, (3rd gear,) to the nearest VW dealer to find that a mouse had eaten through one of the wires coming out of the transmission. I didn't drive over 45 mph, (2,100 RPM,) and everything seems to be fine.

After reading this, I am wondering if I should have the transmission oil examined and or changed.

(My car is an '04 Passat TDI with 50,000 miles.)

Any thoughts?
 
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TheGrove

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I would change it as a matter of practice, no matter if you had driven it in limp mode or not.
 

leicaman

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I had a limp mode episode when I was 60 miles from the closest dealer about two years back. I drove it from Grafton, Wisc., to Sheboygan, Wisc., which is about a half hour of driving. Went no faster than 60mph. Found that little varmits :mad: (ie mice) found my air cleaner box to be a perfect sunflower seed repository. That was before my BS was changed out by Oilhammer who suggested I have the transmission flushed out. I have had no issues, but I undertook serious varmit control measures in my garage. No issues since, but anyone who has one of these cars that has never changed the transmission fluid should seriously consider that an act of maintenance and preservation.
 

aja8888

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Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
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Out of TDI's
eyetdiman said:
I just drove mine 60 miles in limp mode, (3rd gear,) to the nearest VW dealer to find that a mouse had eaten through one of the wires coming out of the transmission. I didn't drive over 45 mph, (2,100 RPM,) and everything seems to be fine.

After reading this, I am wondering if I should have the transmission oil examined and or changed.

(My car is an '04 Passat TDI with 50,000 miles.)

Any thoughts?
At 50K miles is a point where a trans flush would be a good idea under normal conditions. I did mine at 56K and will do it again at 106K or therabouts. Even though VW stands on this "lifetime" fluid kick, internal parts do wear in transmissions and the fluid carries lot of the heat load and fine particle contaminents. Look at it as insurance and a good maintenance practice.
 

eyetdiman

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Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Location
Wilmette, IL
TDI
'04 Passat TDI Sedan
Glad to hear there were no issues around your having had to drive in limp mode Leicaman.

The mice got into my wiring harness as I left the car parked in the grass at my WI farm for 4 days without moving it. There have been an explosion of field mice this year. I have never seen so many.

There is a lot of information on this site about changing the oil in the transmission and I will have that done. Dropping the pan seems to be quite a bit more expensive, but I will get some prices either way. Somehow I feel more comfortable having it done at my VW dealer, (The Auto Barn in Evanston or Jennings VW in Glenview, IL.) rather than my nearby all purpose garage who does very nice work. I'll talk with them also.

I am assuming the transmission in the TDI is the same as in the gas passats??
 

eyetdiman

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Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Location
Wilmette, IL
TDI
'04 Passat TDI Sedan
aja8888 said:
At 50K miles is a point where a trans flush would be a good idea under normal conditions. I did mine at 56K and will do it again at 106K or therabouts. Even though VW stands on this "lifetime" fluid kick, internal parts do wear in transmissions and the fluid carries lot of the heat load and fine particle contaminents. Look at it as insurance and a good maintenance practice.

Where did you have the work performed? I am assuming flushing is different than draining. I know Midas Muffler has a flushing they would like to sell. I just don't want someone to mess it up by doing the incorrect procedure.
 

aja8888

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eyetdiman said:
Where did you have the work performed? I am assuming flushing is different than draining. I know Midas Muffler has a flushing they would like to sell. I just don't want someone to mess it up by doing the incorrect procedure.
I had my work done at a Guru in Ft Worth, TX. I would not go to the dealer as they will not want touch the fluid in your trans. I would not go to Midas or other shop that does not know very much about servicing VW transmissions (in this case and Asian ZF trans). A pan drop and fluid and filter change is OK since a good bit of the old stuff comes out in this trans. Do that every 50K and it will be OK in lieu of a machine flush.
 

johnboy00

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Jun 15, 2000
Location
Bridgewater,Ma.,USA
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2005 Passat Wagon, 2004 Jetta, 2003 Jetta wagon
leicaman said:
I had a limp mode episode when I was 60 miles from the closest dealer about two years back. I drove it from Grafton, Wisc., to Sheboygan, Wisc., which is about a half hour of driving. Went no faster than 60mph. Found that little varmits :mad: (ie mice) found my air cleaner box to be a perfect sunflower seed repository. That was before my BS was changed out by Oilhammer who suggested I have the transmission flushed out. I have had no issues, but I undertook serious varmit control measures in my garage. No issues since, but anyone who has one of these cars that has never changed the transmission fluid should seriously consider that an act of maintenance and preservation.
FYI, that's not the same limp mode. You got the engine limp mode which disables the turbo, not the transmission limp mode that leaves you in 3rd gear (I think).
 

leicaman

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2015 Golf TDI SE, 2005 TDI GLS, RIP
Oh okay, there is a tranny limp mode too? I just learned another thing. Another perfect reason why I had my transmission fluid flushed by OH. I want to avoid that scenario.
 

cspeter8

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Dec 27, 2007
Location
Central Connecticut
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2004 Passat Sedan
aja8888 said:
... I would not go to Midas or other shop that does not know very much about servicing VW transmissions (in this case and Asian ZF trans). A pan drop and fluid and filter change is OK since a good bit of the old stuff comes out in this trans. Do that every 50K and it will be OK in lieu of a machine flush.
My understanding is that the transmission in the BHW Passat does not have a pan or filter that can be serviced, unless one does a full transmission rebuild. All that can be done is fluid drain and fill.
 

s4phillips

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cspeter8 said:
My understanding is that the transmission in the BHW Passat does not have a pan or filter that can be serviced, unless one does a full transmission rebuild. All that can be done is fluid drain and fill.
Yes, you can certainly drop the pan and replace the filter. Go to this thread, post 46 on page 4 for just one of many links to a how to. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=195440 Can be kind of messy...
 

leicaman

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I sent this to eyetdiman and he suggested I post this to help others. Of course I offer no responsibility if your transmission problems if you use this information, but it looks like good useful information:

Here is some good information from Blauparts in Manitowoc. I bet your local shop could do it if they followed directions...
The kit:

http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=F2A1007-F



The procedure overview:

http://www.blauparts.com/vw/vw_flui...shtml#howtochangevwautomatictransmissionfluid
 
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Sprocket

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The links don't work :(
 
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