2006 tdi no power black smoke under 2000 rpm

skinny19

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Location
Regina Saskatchewan,Canada
TDI
2000 Jetta & 2006 Jetta
I have a 2006 jetta tdi std trans when I stop at a traffic light for a min or so and go to accelerate car has poor power and if I accelerate hard car will smoke black and the valves will ping. The car has a boost guage and it shows about 25 psi at about 1500 rpm while the engine is pinging and blowing black smoke. When the engine hits 2000rpm the car takes off with a burst of power, at this moment the boost pressure drops to 15 psi. The car seems to be worse when warm. The engine starts and idles perfect and runs excellent when running down the road, with lots of power as long as the rpm is above 2000. I bought this car used it has 176000km, I have records that show the head, and camshaft and lifters have been changed. The ASV and EGR valve have both been changed, CAT has been gutted, MAF looks clean, Vaccumn lines are not leaking, Fuel filter is new, air filter is new, wireing looks good can not see any problems. If I drive very easy and shift at low RPM and take it easy you would hardly notice anything is wrong, but you still notice the sudden burst of power. Engine light is off, I was wondering if it could be the MAF or out of time from when the head work was done. I unplugged the MAF and took it for a drive and it seemed a bit better but still not correct, and funny with the MAF unplugged the engine light still did not come on. please help i give up:mad:
 

Harvieux

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 15, 1998
Location
Whittier,CA-USA
TDI
06 A5 Pkg.2 w/navi & ASEP
The problem is the electronic potentiometer vane position sensor on the turbo. Unfortunately, the only fix is to replace the turbo. You could replace the actuator assembly with a known good used one (not available new) but, the turbo must be removed to R&R the actuator assy. anyway and I wouldn't chance it because the turbo R&R labour is intense enough to begin with and having to do it twice would absolutely ruin your week. :rolleyes: Later!
 

skinny19

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Location
Regina Saskatchewan,Canada
TDI
2000 Jetta & 2006 Jetta
Thanks for the info Harvieux. I had a feeling that the turbo could be the problem, but did not want to face it. I have taken and checked vacumn pressure , and the actuator that a person can see from the top of the motor moves correctly & has no vaccumn leak. This info makes sense the hotter the turbo is the worse the vanes stick. Is this a variable pitch turbo. I am new to this car and learning. I have already gotten a few lessons with this one Power steering rack had to changed, code was no communication to steering module , which was built into the electric ps rack. I found a used ps rack and replaced, the ESP light would not go out till I changed the rack. This was a tough one to believe since the car drove perfect with no ps problems, now this great news about the turbo. Its a good thing that I can R&R and cover the labour, these vw cars would break the average man that had to take his car to VW to get repaired. If a person could not install repairs it would make no sence to own one, the fuel saveings could not be justified.
 

Harvieux

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 15, 1998
Location
Whittier,CA-USA
TDI
06 A5 Pkg.2 w/navi & ASEP
skinny19 said:
Thanks for the info Harvieux. I had a feeling that the turbo could be the problem, but did not want to face it. I have taken and checked vacumn pressure , and the actuator that a person can see from the top of the motor moves correctly & has no vaccumn leak. This info makes sense the hotter the turbo is the worse the vanes stick. Is this a variable pitch turbo. I am new to this car and learning. I have already gotten a few lessons with this one Power steering rack had to changed, code was no communication to steering module , which was built into the electric ps rack. I found a used ps rack and replaced, the ESP light would not go out till I changed the rack. This was a tough one to believe since the car drove perfect with no ps problems, now this great news about the turbo. Its a good thing that I can R&R and cover the labour, these vw cars would break the average man that had to take his car to VW to get repaired. If a person could not install repairs it would make no sence to own one, the fuel saveings could not be justified.
Sadly, I agree with you that these TDIs are not for everyone. Don't tell anyone I said so though, eh? ;) Later!
 

skinny19

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Location
Regina Saskatchewan,Canada
TDI
2000 Jetta & 2006 Jetta
I thought I would try something today so I left everything connected properly and wired the wastegate on the turbo open . I looped a piece of wire around the bottom of the rod on the electronic potentiometer and tied it off with the engine off. Took car for a drive , no more smoke and seems to work better , at least till I find the parts to repair properly. I still wonder if the problem could be the MAF because these two work together.The car seems to have the fuel but not getting the air. Could the MAF be sending incorrect info to the electronic potentiometer. Your help is appreciated
 

POWERBOATDAVE

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
IOWA
TDI
2006 JETTA
I also own a 2006 Jetta stick, bought new with 173,000 miles now. I have personally replaced two timing belts, egr cooler, intake flap valve, Nt75 valve, and recently cam , lifters, water pump ect. My car has had what appears to be turbo lag since new. THis was a minor problem when new but the car always accelerated quickly after 2000 RPM. Now I have the same exact problems as Skinny 19 as the car stutters and blows black smoke if you try to accelaerate quickly in first gear. Could there be the possibilty that the computer needs to be reflashed? Would adjusting the rod shorter help? What parts of the engine supply information to the turbo potentiometer. Any help would be appreciated.
 

skinny19

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Location
Regina Saskatchewan,Canada
TDI
2000 Jetta & 2006 Jetta
Powerboatdave Iam glad to hear from you . I was starting to wonder if I was the only person that ever had this problem. I would also like to know which parts of the engine talk to the potentiometer, is it the Maf , throtle position etc. I have not drove my car much since I wired my actuator potentiometer up and tied it off, basicaly giving it full boost I also noticed that it does not seem to have as much power as it did before. At least the car seems to take off better and no more smoke for now till I fix it . I have a feeling Harvieux is correct with the problem . I made a few calls to auto wreckers and asked if they have sold turbos for this reason, and one person said he had due to this problem. He basicaly told me he had sold the complete turbo basically for the actuator potentiometer. I fished around for a used potentiometer and no luck and a used turbo with potentiometer costs around 500-600 dollars. The problem with the actuator wired up is that the rod is not moveing in and out and seems that position of the rod decides how much fuel the engine gets and probably controls timing, I am just guessing this and I really do not know. I plan to hunt down a good used turbo assembly , I am just having a hard time due to the fact that I know the turbo is fine and the the actuator potentiometer is no good. I am glad to hear your troubles are similar maybe we will get to the botttom of this yet. I have just one question what is nt75 Valve? and if you put the hammer down in 1st gear will the valves ping under load , you know like when you are going to take off up a hill and the car is under extreme load at low RPM below 2000 RPM if you have the throtle to the floor. Your car works fine though if you baby it and shift up to 2nd gear at low rpm and slowly let it climb up to 2000rpm the average person would never know there was anything wrong am I correct. Anyway lookin forward to hearing from you. I sometimes wonder is it possible the intake manifold is plugged. I looked in with the EGR Valve and the ASV valve removed and it looks clean up to the point where it turns down to the head
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
These symptoms seem to be fairly common on the BRM engine.

1. One potential issue is a bad position indicator on the turbo as Harv said. You can check for this by watching Engine Measuring Block 43 field 2 as you cycle the turbo with a vacuum pump. You could also log this as you ran down the road, if you wanted, checking for issues. There is no source that I am aware of for these positioners except off of ruined turbos. If the posioner fails completely you should get a code.

2. The turbo actuator setup can be wrong.

3. And another issue can be due to the agressive EGR system operation on these cars.
Unplug the EGR and the ASV (both) and go for a test drive. If many or most of the symptoms disappear then you may be onto something.

4. And still another issue can be plugged catalytic converters, causing too much back pressure. Note that if this is the case it can really impact #3 above.

5. And on a BRM I would always inspect the cam for severely worn lobes.

skinny, I see that your car has had a lot of these areas looked at already. For your car I would try 1, 2, and 3. I would also inspect the cam again.
 
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POWERBOATDAVE

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
IOWA
TDI
2006 JETTA
Thank you for the replies. Please let me know where the ASV valve wiring plug is located.

Could DanG144 explain the test for position indicator. What are the correct readings when using the vaccuum guage and cycling the turbo on the Vagcom? Thank you for help all
 

POWERBOATDAVE

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
IOWA
TDI
2006 JETTA
Skinny 19, the tnt 75 valve is a Waste gate bypass regulator valve located on the firewall on the drivers side and is about one inch by one inch with vaccuum lines to it secured by a screw. I tried replacing it as it was about 50 or 60 dollars. It made no difference.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Use VCDS. The displayed position in mb43 field 2 should go from near 0% to near 100% (say +/- 10% for each) smoothly with actual position. You vary the position with a vacuum pump. If it is bad you will suddenly see a large step change in displayed percentage with little change in vacuum.

An easy way to do this is to go to 20" vacuum and let a tiny vacuum leak (pinhole in a hose) slowly ease the vacuum away.

The ASV is at the transition from plastic/rubber hose to metal at the (Car right) right rear of the engine. The air line connects to the ASV, which is bolted to the intake manifold just right of the EGR valve. The one for my BEW is on the bottom, but there is only one connector. It is down low and buried, hard to get to, on my BEW.

Unplugging these will throw a CEL and code.
 
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POWERBOATDAVE

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
IOWA
TDI
2006 JETTA
Thank you for taking the time DanG144. I will try disconnecting the egr valve and the asv valve.

I will then hook the Vagcom and do the vaccuum test if the above does not produce results.

Take Care and thank again

Thanks Again
 

skinny19

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Location
Regina Saskatchewan,Canada
TDI
2000 Jetta & 2006 Jetta
Thankyou for your time also DanG144. I just ordered a Vagcom program I realize that the guess work will not work for ever. I have a friend with a small import repair business that I get to scan my car but not handy enough every time something comes up. I am looking forward to the vacumn test , fairly sure that is the problem. I do not think it has any thing to do with egr or asv. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.
 

POWERBOATDAVE

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
IOWA
TDI
2006 JETTA
I disconnected the EGR valve and found it eliminated 95% of the problem. I could not find the avs valve. I have drove the car 36 miles and the check engine light did not come on till I shut off the car and restarted. The car ran just fine. Does it hurt the car to drive it with the egr valve disconnected.? Would the problem be the egr valve itself or the inputs its receiving. I still wonder if relashing the computer would help if the egr valve is receiving the wrong information.

I appreciate all input DanG144

Skinny19, I would try disconnecting the egr valve, it worked for me. I beleive it is worth having a Vagcom as I have used mine enough to make it worth owning
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I reread my earlier post, and realized my mistake.
The anti shudder valve is also called the intake flapper valve.

It looks like a carburetor throttle plate, because it essentially does the same thing. On older cars it simply closed on shutdown to prevent engine shudder. On newer cars (since 2004) it modulates as part of the EGR program. The ECU will open the EGR and then throttle on the ASV until it gets the air flow down to its target.

If you follow the hard plastic line up to where it enters the intake assembly, the ASV is the next valve inline. You can see it if you unsnap the plasic intake pipe.

On this view from the aft side of the engine the ASV is on the top right, just right of the EGR valve.

You can see the EGR cooler near the bottom then the metalic flex pipe runs up and into the EGR. The ASV is outboard (right in this photo) with a pear shaped black plastic cover on it. I would guess the plug is on the forward side of the ASV, under the main inlet air tube.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
POWERBOATDAVE said:
I disconnected the EGR valve and found it eliminated 95% of the problem. I could not find the avs valve. I have drove the car 36 miles and the check engine light did not come on till I shut off the car and restarted. The car ran just fine. Does it hurt the car to drive it with the egr valve disconnected.? Would the problem be the egr valve itself or the inputs its receiving. I still wonder if relashing the computer would help if the egr valve is receiving the wrong information.

I appreciate all input DanG144

Skinny19, I would try disconnecting the egr valve, it worked for me. I beleive it is worth having a Vagcom as I have used mine enough to make it worth owning
Unplugging the EGR or MAF probably disables the EGR control circuit, but I am not certain. It will not hurt to drive with the EGR unplugged.

Unfortunately the EGR valve is probably still partly open. It is parked partly open to prevent it from sticking. So you are still getting some constant amount of exhaust gasses through the EGR.

Someone has a pdf of a block off plate they made for a BRM. It is just a solid metal plate to put in place of one of the gaskets from the cooler to the EGR, to completely block flow.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/4817/EGR_PLATE.pdf

Can you provide a data log of measuring block 3 with the EGR plugged in and unplugged over the problem power range? Please log blocks 1, 3, 11.

You can email it to me if you wish, just right click on my name for the address.

Please make sure you have no boost leaks, not even very slight ones. They will give your ECU too high a MAF reading and it will throttle open on the EGR and closed on the ASV to ridiculous levels as it tries to reach its fairly aggressive (low fresh air flow) desired operating point.
 

POWERBOATDAVE

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
IOWA
TDI
2006 JETTA
DanG144, Thanks again. I will take the readings and e-mail to you . It will probably be a couple days as I will be out of town.

Take Care
 

POWERBOATDAVE

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
IOWA
TDI
2006 JETTA
Dan G , I hooked the Vagcom today and first ran your precribed test with the egr disconnected with the engine at operating temperature. I had driven the car previousy for 76 miles with the egr disconnected.

I then plugged in the egr harness to the egr making sure of the connection. I started to run the same test as above and the car did not have any problems in first and second gear as before. I drove 26 miles and stopped and started 16 times, shut the car of 5 times and no problems. I returned and cleared the codes and drove another 10 miles ,again with no problems.

Bad connection at the egr? Should I put di-electric grease in the connection?

As indicated in my original comments this car had slight systoms of turbo lag since it was new and gradually got worse to the point of no power in first gear when trying to accelerate quickly..

I don't think driving 70 miles with the egr disconnected would improve the problems.

Hope this helps you Skinny.

Can' say thank you enough to DanG for all the help and the additional info

I will keep everyone posted
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Which tests did you do? The output tests and Basic settings tests?

They do exercise the EGR.

But I would not have expected them to make a difference in operation. It may not last long.
 

POWERBOATDAVE

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
IOWA
TDI
2006 JETTA
DanG

I believe I did the outputs tests on 1, injector quality 3 egr and 11 charge pressure with the egr disconnected and connected.

I did save the test but did forward to you as the problem was not occurring.

I would like to be lucky once, hoping for bad connection on the egr wiring connection

If not I will contact the tuner you suggested.

Thanks again
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Dave,
Looking back over the thread, I think we may be talking at cross purposes.

Did you just do the ENGINE controller MEASURING BLOCKS, then log 1,3, 11? This is not really a test, just data collection.

In my last post I was asking if you did ENGINE controller, OUTPUT TEST, and/or ENGINE controller, BASIC SETTINGS, tests on 3 and 11?

I was just curious; I would not do them until it starts misbehaving again. Why mess with success?
 

mstepchinski

Active member
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I am experiencing the same issue with my '06 Jetta, but when I clear the trouble code it starts to run ok again. My code reader told me the MAF was to blame, and it had a pending code for the EGR valve. I don't want to just repalce thing after thing, so where is a good place to start?
 

D-Cell_Mekanick

Veteran Member
Joined
May 23, 2009
Location
Sandwich, IL
TDI
2015 Honda Civic SE
I am experiencing the same issue with my '06 Jetta, but when I clear the trouble code it starts to run ok again. My code reader told me the MAF was to blame, and it had a pending code for the EGR valve. I don't want to just repalce thing after thing, so where is a good place to start?
Is your EGR sooty? That would be a sure sign of a leak and possibly EGR failure.
 

rkrueger

Active member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Sorry for bringing this thread back from the dead, but I am having the same issue....pinging under load in first, shuddering and black smoke and then boost kicks in and shes off like a bat out of hell. Motor has new cam, bearings etc...

Its seems really inconsistent and I'm finding that the longer I drive it the better it gets...actually disappearing after 15+ minutes of driving. I've read about 4 of these threads and unforntunately nobody has come back saying what the final repair was. Could be turbo, could be egr, could be MAF, but no solid answers.

Anybody have any further insight?
 

stra0529

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Location
North Branch, MN
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI DSG
I too also am looking for the true fix. My car, just bought a week ago at 113k, only appears when its colder (not driven much) but once it warms up it more or less goes away, sometimes feeling it w/cruise but mostly shifting from 1-2 and into 2-3 (somtimes 3-4) but almost always at 1800-2000rpm. If im on the gas little more it seems to go away but i havent changed any filters yet (just picked up yesterday to see if this would help - fuel&air) but sounds like it wont have much if any affect.

I had it in to the stealership for the free 160 pt inspection they are offering and they only mentioned DMF starting to fail as engine appears to free-rev but i havent noticed any. When i am under car while running i hear the rattling slightly of the DMF so i am going to replace that but dont think that has anything to do with the hiccup-ing issue 1800-2k r's. They also checked TB and said it looked good/newer so should be ok there, no history from previous owner :(

I plan to also check the EGR, MAF, ASV, connections, vac...etc. I dont have VCDS but plan to obtain in the future to help investigate. DMF took enough $ from me right now.

Thanks everyone for the insight.
 

stra0529

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Location
North Branch, MN
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI DSG
I too also am looking for the true fix. My car, just bought a week ago at 113k, only appears when its colder (not driven much) but once it warms up it more or less goes away, sometimes feeling it w/cruise but mostly shifting from 1-2 and into 2-3 (somtimes 3-4) but almost always at 1800-2000rpm. If im on the gas little more it seems to go away but i havent changed any filters yet (just picked up yesterday to see if this would help - fuel&air) but sounds like it wont have much if any affect.
Well replaced fuel filter and is much much better, must have just gotten lucky:)
 
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