hpfp filter protection

farmerrae

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Location
Ohio
TDI
Passat, Jetta
Does anyone have information about purchasing an additional low micron fuel filter system for a Q7? The object being further protection against hpfp failure. I read about a member, Andrew, who had developed a fix for the Bosch system used in the 2.0L TDI engines. I wondered if he had done work on the 3.0L TDI's used in the Q7. The name of his company is "2microntech" and is located in Toronto. If anyone knows of a way of protecting these fuel systems, please share.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
Interested in this myself, though for a Q5 rather than a Q7 (if it matters). I'm thinking (or, at least, hoping) this one's a keeper, so if there's a vulnerability there it seems worth addressing.
 

hankymurphy

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Location
North Jersey
TDI
'02 Jetta, '14 A6
I am also interested in this with a '14 A6. I am willing to work with someone to develop this system if a solution does not already exist. Thanks,
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
Does anyone have information about purchasing an additional low micron fuel filter system for a Q7? The object being further protection against hpfp failure. I read about a member, Andrew, who had developed a fix for the Bosch system used in the 2.0L TDI engines. I wondered if he had done work on the 3.0L TDI's used in the Q7. The name of his company is "2microntech" and is located in Toronto. If anyone knows of a way of protecting these fuel systems, please share.
Be careful with where you fuel up to avoid getting water contaminated fuel from a station that rarely gets any truck traffic. Diesel fuel is hygroscopic similar to brake fluid and likes to soak up moisture from condensation like a sponge. Fuel up ONLY at busy stations with high fuel turnover along major routes that get lots of diesel truck traffic. Go where the big rigs go. The fuel at these stations is the freshest fuel in the region because it is constantly being replaced, often daily. It is not uncommon for a busy truck stop along a major route to do more than $30k worth of diesel business in a single day. Also regularly use an additive such as PowerService Diesel Fuel Supplement (white bottle) to add lubricity and take care of any water you can't avoid getting. Avoiding water is most important during winter months in cold areas due to condensation being more of a problem.

The HPFP in CR diesels are much more susceptible to damage from free water compared to older rotary injector pump systems. A single tank of water contaminated fuel from a station that rarely turns their fuel is all it takes. Free water in diesel fuel will destroy the HPFP in a CR diesel in no time at all and will do so faster than poor lubricity will. Free water in diesel fuel absolutely must be avoided at ALL costs. :eek:

Good luck and Welcome to TDIclub. :cool:
 
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kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
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farmerrae

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Location
Ohio
TDI
Passat, Jetta
People that own 3.0L V6 TDI's are exposed to the same risks of hpfp failure as the owners of 2.0L 4cyl TDI's have already experienced. Some believe the cause of the problem is the poor quality of the diesel fuel (scar rating of 520} sold in America. That becomes an issue when Bosch requires their CP4.2 fuel pump, be operated on diesel with a scar rate of no worse than 450. The lower the scar rating number of the fuel the better or the more lubricity it exhibits. Some believe the cause of the problem stems from a component failure from within the Bosch CP4.2 high pressure fuel pump. There are reams of discussions that support each of the differing points of view from numerous knowledgeable and concerned people. The same Bosch CP4.2 fuel pump is used by GM, Ford, VW, Audi, Porsche, Nissan, BMW, Chrysler, Mercedes, and others. All except Mercedes and BMW have an unacceptable rate of catastrophic failure with this CP4.2.
If you own or know someone that owns a vehicle using this Bosch CP4.2 fuel pump, they may need you to direct them somewhere to obtain advice. There is a member of the TDI Club that has developed a device to take on a similar problem in engines other than the 3.0L TDI. With his hard work and our good luck we wait for the results.
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
People that own 3.0L V6 TDI's are exposed to the same risks of hpfp failure as the owners of 2.0L 4cyl TDI's have already experienced. Some believe the cause of the problem is the poor quality of the diesel fuel (scar rating of 520} sold in America. That becomes an issue when Bosch requires their CP4.2 fuel pump, be operated on diesel with a scar rate of no worse than 450. The lower the scar rating number of the fuel the better or the more lubricity it exhibits. Some believe the cause of the problem stems from a component failure from within the Bosch CP4.2 high pressure fuel pump. There are reams of discussions that support each of the differing points of view from numerous knowledgeable and concerned people. The same Bosch CP4.2 fuel pump is used by GM, Ford, VW, Audi, Porsche, Nissan, BMW, Chrysler, Mercedes, and others. All except Mercedes and BMW have an unacceptable rate of catastrophic failure with this CP4.2.
If you own or know someone that owns a vehicle using this Bosch CP4.2 fuel pump, they may need you to direct them somewhere to obtain advice. There is a member of the TDI Club that has developed a device to take on a similar problem in engines other than the 3.0L TDI. With his hard work and our good luck we wait for the results.
People talk about poor lubricity in diesel fuel and this is a valid concern but overlook the importance of avoiding water in diesel fuel. A lot of HPFP failures reported in the forums have likely been due to water contaminated fuel. Evidence of rust and corrosion have often been found in these systems upon teardown, indicating they had been ingesting water for some time. I wish our cars had a WATER IN FUEL :eek: (WIF) sensor in the fuel filter to warn of possible water problems so owners can take immediate action and correct water problems before the fuel system gets damaged.

Water in diesel fuel due to condensation from a station that rarely turns their fuel will destroy a HPFP in a CR diesel in no time at all and will do so much faster than poor lubricity will. Diesel fuel is hygroscopic and likes to soak up moisture like a sponge. The HPFP in CR diesels are much more susceptible to damage from free water in diesel fuel compared to older rotary injector pump diesels. The same water contaminated fuel will eventually take out a rotary injector pump in older VE-pump TDIs.

Increasing lubricity and avoiding water in diesel fuel are why I regularly use an additive such as PowerService Diesel Fuel Supplement (white bottle) and only fuel up at busy high volume/high turnover stations along major routes that get a lot of truck traffic. I go where the big rigs go. The PS helps improve lubricity and takes care of any water I can't avoid getting.

Fuel quality is ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING when it comes to protecting the fuel system and ensuring long life and reliable service.

Good luck.
 
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mike

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 1999
Location
New England
TDI
2015 Q5 Tdi, RIP 2003 Jetta GLS 5sp

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
An interesting, albeit expensive find. That inline filter , if there aren't any types of flow restrictors would seem like n easy place to swap in something with a water seperator. How about an ALH filter in that space.




I'll keep the Powerservice white bottle going for now.
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
An interesting, albeit expensive find. That inline filter , if there aren't any types of flow restrictors would seem like n easy place to swap in something with a water seperator. How about an ALH filter in that space.




I'll keep the Powerservice white bottle going for now.
YES, keep the PS going and with every tank. PowerService Diesel Fuel Supplement (white bottle) is the one to use. PowerService Diesel Kleen (silver bottle) doesn't do anything for water. The white bottle stuff would be better for year round use. Also as I mentioned earlier fuel up ONLY at busy, high volume, high diesel turnover stations along major routes that get lots of diesel truck traffic. Go where the big rigs go to fuel up to get only the freshest fuel in the region and to avoid getting fuel contaminated with water from condensation. The PS will add lubricity and take care of what little water you can't avoid getting.

Maybe someone can recommend a separator kit that can be added inline?
I was sort of thinking the same thing with an ALH filter. I had envisioned leaving the stock filter alone and install an ALH filter in line with the stock filter and rely on the ALH filter as a water separator. There may be aftermarket water separators that would work too. Water is the big enemy of diesel fuel and more so than lack of lubricity is. The water separator is ultimately the engine's last line of defense against water ingestion.

Years ago with MK4 TDIs and the ALH filter, a number of TDIclubbers reported never finding any water in the separator during a FF change. This has led some TDI owners to believe that the water separator doesn't do anything. I think it's really just saying these owners are getting good fuel because I found a case where the water separator in an ALH filter definitely does work. Several years ago I helped a co-worker do a FF change in his 2000 Jetta TDI and he asked me how often it should be changed because he had never changed it or knew anything about it. Uh-Oh, I thought. This was at 205k miles. :eek: He bought the car used with around 40k miles on it and never touched the filter and never gave it any thought. He kept up with other maintenance including the timing belt but never touched the fuel filter and it was still the factory original filter. When we emptied the old filter, about 1/3rd of the contents was rust-colored water. :eek: The water separator was essentially swamped with water and the filter canister was rusting out on the inside. :eek: The filter was also rusting on the outside too. It was rusted in place and we had to work to break it loose to change it. I would think if the water separator didn't work, the IP would have surely died an early death, yet the engine was still running perfectly fine and with the water separator swamped with rust colored water. :eek: I educated him about the importance of changing the FF on schedule. I think I helped him dodge a bullet that day. That TDI is still on the road today at only 400k miles and still running on its original IP.

From what I've seen, I can say the water separator in an ALH fuel filter definitely DOES work.
 
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n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
ALH fuel filter part number: 1J0 127 401A

Good gawd, it really shows what a geek I am when I can readily recall the FF part number from memory. :) It's been several years since I last dealt with one of these fuel filters. :)
 
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afarfalla

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Location
sugar land tx
TDI
05 Passat sedan and 05 wagen
the HPFP issue regarding fuel scrubbing, has been research very well by members of this forum, in my research I believe the 2micron filter with water separator and adding 1quart of 100% bio to each tank full is the way to go.
 

Savageman69

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Location
ontario
TDI
2012 Highline Touareg TDI
Hello Farmer,
Sent you an email.
Thank you,
Andrew
any progress andrew? im sure the q7 and touareg should be nearly identical...im still really looking to do this as im pushing as much fuel as it likely wants to so i need some protection.
 

mech644

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Location
Blue Hill, Maine
TDI
'00 Golf, '14 Touareg
Count me as interested as well.
Is the pump upgrade applicable for the 3.0?
I've only been driving the Touareg for a few weeks, haven't really noodled out all the options for mods yet.
 

Savageman69

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Location
ontario
TDI
2012 Highline Touareg TDI
Count me as interested as well.
Is the pump upgrade applicable for the 3.0?
I've only been driving the Touareg for a few weeks, haven't really noodled out all the options for mods yet.
yes you can upgrade the pump same as 2.0....just need andrew to build the kit to mount it.
 

TIG

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Location
Ottawa
TDI
Mk4 ALH with 615K kms, 2011 Touareg TDI 115K kms
I also e-mailed 2micron offline, just bought a 2011 Touareg and interested in a kit
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Location
Hong Kong
TDI
None yet but looking at the VW 2.0 CR
HPFP High Side inline filters

am I missing something here? Obviously filtering before HPFP and supplying super clean water free fuel (with lubricity additive) is vital but I'm a bit surprised (or ignorant) that no has mentioned or considered a filter after the HPFP. pressure drop etc would obviously need to be addressed
 

Greg5OH

Vendor
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Location
Ortonville MI
TDI
13 Q7
There is almost 30,000 psi post HPFP. AFAIK, i dont think filters exist that will live under such pressures.

am I missing something here? Obviously filtering before HPFP and supplying super clean water free fuel (with lubricity additive) is vital but I'm a bit surprised (or ignorant) that no has mentioned or considered a filter after the HPFP. pressure drop etc would obviously need to be addressed
 

A1sailor

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
Location
Ontario, Canada
TDI
2015 Q5 TDI 3.0
Hi Folks,
New to the forum as I am considering a Q5 TDI and researching the Gen 2- 3.0 TDI's.

In looking at the ALH fuel filter part number: 1J0 127 401A as a prefilter it looks to have a drain in bottom- is it a drain for water?

The Racor filter has a clear bowl that can be viewed for water in filter and drain off- I have this filter as pre-filter on Yanmar on my boat- they work and you can get 2 micron filters if you want.

My 06 Eclass Benz straight 6 diesel does have an electric water sensor that inserts to the fuel filter to act as warning device for water presence.
Is there no water warning device in the Gen 2- 3.0 TDI's fuel filters?
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Any updates on getting a gen 2 V6 TDI something like the 2.0 got with the CP3 HPFP? I think that would be a great way to keep one of these cars for a long time :)
 
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