Made the Move to Tesla

After 15 years of driving diesel - 2 Jettas, a Passat, two A3's and a M-B E-Class - I packed it all in three months ago to try driving carbon-free. The list of reasons why I bought my Tesla is long, but it really boils down to one thing - doing the right thing for my kids. Yes, 'climate change'. Believe it or deny it as you will, the transition to renewable will have to come eventually. I've chosen to do it now.
Happily, the transition has been painless and in fact, enjoyable.
When I moved from gasoline to diesel, I realized I could never go back (and I didn't). The move to pure electric has been the same sort of revelation. I couldn't go back to the ICE now either. My Alfa is up for sale now too.
I'm not posting this to be a dick. If you're reading this, it's because you're a car person and can likely appreciate almost every car at one level or another. That's me as well. I'm posting, because as car people you all deserve to take a drive in a Tesla to see what is possible. I thought they were just for tree-huggers - turns out, they're pretty frickin' awesome too.

Enjoy the ride!

You know...we're gonna need some pictures here, right?

If you're selling the 5 letter Rx-7, I'll make room for it.
-Jason

beeeerock said:

After 15 years of driving diesel - 2 Jettas, a Passat, two A3's and a M-B E-Class - I packed it all in three months ago to try driving carbon-free. The list of reasons why I bought my Tesla is long, but it really boils down to one thing - doing the right thing for my kids. Yes, 'climate change'. Believe it or deny it as you will, the transition to renewable will have to come eventually. I've chosen to do it now.
Happily, the transition has been painless and in fact, enjoyable.
When I moved from gasoline to diesel, I realized I could never go back (and I didn't). The move to pure electric has been the same sort of revelation. I couldn't go back to the ICE now either. My Alfa is up for sale now too.
I'm not posting this to be a dick. If you're reading this, it's because you're a car person and can likely appreciate almost every car at one level or another. That's me as well. I'm posting, because as car people you all deserve to take a drive in a Tesla to see what is possible. I thought they were just for tree-huggers - turns out, they're pretty frickin' awesome too.

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Congrats, I hope to drive electric vehicle before I die. It's on my bucket list. Wish I could afford a Tesla. Thanks for posting and sharing.

Congrats on a sweet ride, but carbon free. If you plug her on chances are some coal was burnt along the way.

I think the Model S is one amazing car, but there's just no way in the world I could ever justify buying one.

Lease alone in Ontario, Canada (for the 70 kWh RWD base model only, not the P85D) is CAD $1,163/mth (48 mths and a limit of 20,000 km/yr, $8,500 tax incentive incl., includes charge for non-blah paint and required-for-Canada subzero weather package).

If you allow for a financing payment of $500/mth for a lesser car, it leaves a difference of $663 monthly for fuel and maintenance, which is pretty darn easy to beat. Hell, I pay ~$250/mth to fuel TWO cars, at the moment. Then add to it the fact that after 4 years, the cheaper car would be yours (loan paid) and the Tesla is simply no longer yours and you have to start over or buy it out.

In my case (and I can't be alone), I'd also have to have my buried hydro service from the street upgraded from 100 A to 200 A, replace the main load panel, and add a 240 V plug in the garage, and pay even more exorbitant hydro bills than I already do. Never. gonna. happen.

I think the Tesla is a beautiful car. It's just that it's about twice the car I'd like to own. And what do you do if you want to drive more than the car's range in a day? My son lives about 130 miles away, and I couldn't make a round trip to visit him in a day (which I frequently do), especially in winter. What I'd really like is half a Tesla for daily driving, and a nice diesel Mercedes for long trips.

And with all due respect, the environmental impact of building and generating power for your Tesla probably far outweighs the impact of continuing to drive what you have.

How much of the electric power in BC comes from coal? I know in the US about half of all electricity is generated by burning coal (more in some areas). I know much electricity in eastern Canada comes from Hydro in Quebec. Does all that Hydro power make it to BC or are you powered by other sources? I really do not know.

Electric cars are cool, but they are not necessarily green. The lithium mining and the battery production is far from green and in many places in the world an electric car is really a coal powered car. It is easy to be fooled by the advertising hype and to neglect the facts.

Eco-friendly (like many other things in life) is a continuum and where along that continuum any given car fits is widely open to debate. It could be argued that a Tesla is "greener" that a clean diesel, but it could just as easily be argued that the opposite is true. It all depends on which facts you choose to focus on.

I hope you enjoy your Tesla as much (or more) than you enjoyed your TDIs.

Have Fun!

Don

Participating in the transition to renewable energy is a wonderful thing.

and it sounds like a great drive.

I share a commute route with at least one Tesla owner, and he seems to enjoy the ride quite a bit, even in what can be annoying traffic.

over the life of any new BEV, the energy used will only get cleaner. and as production continues, the materials source and manufacturing process will improve as well.

the opposite is true of a new Diesel, which emit more as systems malfunction, and as some fraction are illegally modified to disable the emissions controls.

there is also a heck of a lot less to go wrong with a BEV, (of course a few new ones are there) and the efficiency is much higher than with any fossil fuel vehicle. EPA estimate for the latest Tesla is around 90 mpge and they whine about how unfair the estimate is.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think the Tesla is a beautiful car. It's just that it's about twice the car I'd like to own. And what do you do if you want to drive more than the car's range in a day? My son lives about 130 miles away, and I couldn't make a round trip to visit him in a day (which I frequently do), especially in winter. What I'd really like is half a Tesla for daily driving, and a nice diesel Mercedes for long trips.

And with all due respect, the environmental impact of building and generating power for your Tesla probably far outweighs the impact of continuing to drive what you have.

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Everybody says this but nobody talks about the impact and consequence of producing/extracting/importing petroleum as if there is none and only electric made from coal is an issue or problem.

The only form of electricity generation with the lowest environmental impact is wind and solar. So that represents the only "viable" future alternative to fossil fuels.

I agree that producing diesel is far from environmentally neutral. The only hope I have is that oil prices drop enough to stop fracking long enough to allow regulatory agencies time to notice the impact of that technology and do something about it. I'm probably dreaming on that one.

But people also tend to ignore the resources and energy required to build a car. And the environmental impact of disposing of one. Not nothing.

Is anyone aware of a good academic report which compares the two, cradle to grave?

It isnt really an "academic report" but this article from pop-sci is decent. Basically, to save the environment is probably not the right reason to buy a Tesla, but its definitely a step in the right direction.

One argument I didn't see in this article is that even if effective emissions from EVs and ICE powered vehicles were equal, the pollution from an EV is usually produced somewhere further away from where humans reside than an ICE powered vehicle, which is definitely a good thing, but you're still not solving global warming or anything.

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-05/does-tesla-model-s-electric-car-pollute-more-suv

In today's balance of electricity generation, an EV might not be "greener" or emit less CO2 than a decent combustion-engine vehicle, BUT, it opens the possibility for using "greener" electricity sources in the future without having to change how we distribute that electricity. If you want to (and can afford it), you can put up solar panels etc and be free of coal-powered electricity generation today.

Canada has made significant moves to get away from coal-fired electricity generation. http://www.eia.gov/beta/internation...long/Canada/images/electricity_generation.png It's not shown on this chart, but the "fossil" is about evenly split between coal and natural gas. This is from 2012 and I would assume that the wind/solar portion has increased since then.

Now if only the NIMBY folks who oppose every wind turbine could be dealt with in some way ...

The Tesla is the one EV available today that I consider to be a decent car ... and it is really good. Yes, it is a high-end vehicle. I still see more Teslas on the road than any other EV. Congrats on the purchase.

Tesla is a fantastic car, and congrats on going carbon free as best as you can. My dad has solar and an electric Ford Fiesta (I wouldn't have chosen that, but he got suckered at the dealership).

I'm considering dumping the Jeep Liberty CRD for an eGolf lease for our city driving. And here in LA, there is lots of that.

Congrats on the Tesla. I see them around a lot since I work about a mile from their local repair facility.

To each his own.

The EV market is still underdeveloped to be practical to me. When an EV can go 800 miles in between charges, reach full charge in 5 minutes, never need a $4k to $8k replacement battery pac, then I'll consider one.

Tesla's much touted cross-country trip on their then newly opened Supercharger network in 2014 resulted in each car using energy at a rate about the same as getting 99 mpg on gasoline. (3464.5 miles on 1,197.8 kWh)
The CO2 equivalent (CO, CO2, CH4, and N2) emissions, as rated by the eGRID zone in which the stations are located, and the amount of electricity taken on at each, was the pollution equivalent of 52 mpg on gasoline (217.6 g / mi).
The trip took 24 stops.

My cross-country trip from Portland, ME to Portland, OR (TDIFest 2010) on commercially available, public pump, B100 biodiesel resulted in the Cabrio TDI conversion using energy at a rate about the same as getting 48 mpg on gasoline. (3,934.2 miles on 80.166 gallons or fuel energy equal to 2,814.8 kWh).
The CO2 equivalent, as calculated by the feed stock source of the bio (waste, virgin, vegetable, animal fat, incidental land use change, etc.), and the amount purchased at each stop, was the pollution equivalent of 75 mpg on gasoline (152.5 g / mi).
The trip took 7 stops.

The Tesla is a gorgeous car. Buy it for that, or for the technology, but you can't greenwash me by falsely claiming it's greener than bio.

data sources: Tesla blog, My mileage log book, USEPA eGRID 9th edition, US DOE GREET, International Council on Clean Transportation

tongsli said:

Everybody says this but nobody talks about the impact and consequence of producing/extracting/importing petroleum as if there is none and only electric made from coal is an issue or problem.

The only form of electricity generation with the lowest environmental impact is wind and solar. So that represents the only "viable" future alternative to fossil fuels.

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Nope, not even PV solar is lower than b100 from WVO

Lifetime CO2 equivalent emissions in grams per kWh for an assortment of energy sources:
Coal 1,001
Hygrogen (liquid) 512
Hydrogen (compressed gas) 479
Electricity (natural gas fired) 469
B100 (virgin soy) 450
B100 (virgin palm oil) 374
B100 (virgin canola) 360
Ethanol (virgin corn) 357
Gasoline 345
Diesel 341
Natural gas (liquified) 336
Ethanol (cane) 264
Natural gas (compressed gas) 245
Synthetic diesel (142)
Electricity (photovoltaic) 46
B100 (waste oil) 36
Electricity (nuclear) 16
Electricity (wind) 12

data sources: California Air Resources Board, International Council on Clean Transport, Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

GoFaster said:

'''
Now if only the NIMBY folks who oppose every wind turbine could be dealt with in some way ...

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So, can I assume that you are showing leadership by advocating for wind turbines in your own back yard? Or are you one of those who want to do unto others as you would never allow others to do unto you? What kind of person are you?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Back to the original post: the Tesla sounds (from all I've read about it) like one great vehicle, if you can afford the buy-in and live with its limitations. I could live with the limitations, but don't have the coin for the buy-in.

Good luck to you with your new vehicle. Please update us on your experience from time to time.

If you have solar panels on your roof or buy your energy from green sources (you can do that now), then Teslas ARE green. Otherwise, you are still getting your energy from a source that scrubs its exhaust in one place! Furthermore, you are driving a car that never rusts, updates automatically, and has design features way ahead of its time, making the car a good long hauler choice if you're one of THOSE types.

Now to get that range up to diesel standards....

BKmetz said:

To each his own.

The EV market is still underdeveloped to be practical to me. When an EV can go 800 miles in between charges, reach full charge in 5 minutes, never need a $4k to $8k replacement battery pac, then I'll consider one.

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Let me play devil's advocate here.

It takes way more than 5 minutes to fill a properly vented B4V. Just ask the people who waited for 3 of us (one after the other) at the Costco diesel pump in Temecula last Saturday.
Then, what is the price for a camshaft/balance shaft replacement on a 2006 TDI? Or perhaps the repair of a diesel particle filter? Point being, the TDI has high priced replacement parts also.
I am way too cheap to spend $75K on a Tesla. Maybe I will spend $33K on a 2016 Volt and power it with solar panels at home plus gasoline. But Anita just got herself a new Camry for $206/mo and $2K down. Hard to beat that deal for a dead reliable transportation appliance.
Is it fun to drive - no. It is a transportation appliance.

BKmetz said:

To each his own.

The EV market is still underdeveloped to be practical to me. When an EV can go 800 miles in between charges, reach full charge in 5 minutes, never need a $4k to $8k replacement battery pac, then I'll consider one.

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My thoughts exactly. The Tesla trip up Mt Washington made me laugh since they worried and planned the whole trip around fueling the car. I can leave my house, drive there over 2.5 hours, drive up the mountain, and drive home and the fuel gauge will barely move.

And leave it to Lug_Nut to bring out the geekhammer. You do not disappoint.

john.jackson9213 said:

It takes way more than 5 minutes to fill a properly vented B4V. Just ask the people who waited for 3 of us (one after the other) at the Costco diesel pump in Temecula last Saturday.

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It doesn't for me. That sounds more like a function of the pump than the car. Maybe the pump filter was getting clogged. After driving the wagon, it seems like I fill the sedan a lot more often since that will only go 850 miles before refueling.

john.jackson9213 said:

Let me play devil's advocate here.

It takes way more than 5 minutes to fill a properly vented B4V.

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Hah, I'll play devil's advocate also.

IF I had a B4V I would restate my post to say, 'The EV market is still underdeveloped to be practical to me. When an EV can go 1200 miles in between charges, reach full charge in 15 minutes, never need a $4k to $8k replacement battery pac (because B4s never need any of those expensive & annoying fixes newer VWs need), then I'll consider one.'

While I would love to own and drive a Tesla, I can in no way justify it in my life at this point. if I could afford to live in the downtown core of a city and work near home, never drive to see friends in other cities and earn enough to be able to afford the obscene Hydro rates in Ontario, I would buy one. Until then I will continue with my TDI.

MrVermin

It is true, the B4V does not need any of those expensive fixes. But keeping a near 20 year old VW in decent condition is not cheap. Especially when so many parts have been discontinued and are out of production. I quit tracking what it was costing me to keep the car running years ago. But July was a $495 wheel bearing gone bad repair. This month (early) it is a steering rack leak repair (Firestone wanted $1K - but they are incompetent thieves). Will still cost me $375 for a rebuilt rack and installation. Want to guess what it will cost me to replace the pealing factory clear coat? About the same as a battery pack.

BKmetz said:

Hah, I'll play devil's advocate also.

IF I had a B4V I would restate my post to say, 'The EV market is still underdeveloped to be practical to me. When an EV can go 1200 miles in between charges, reach full charge in 15 minutes, never need a $4k to $8k replacement battery pac (because B4s never need any of those expensive & annoying fixes newer VWs need), then I'll consider one.'

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Quite true on the paint, but then the Tesla may not hold up either. I have seen more than just the VW's needing a repaint but the B4's are particularly horrible. And rust is a big issue here. While the Tesla is mostly aluminum, it also corrodes quickly in our environment, moreso in the areas they're joined with dissimilar metals.

Anyone converted a DeLoeran to TDI yet?

hehe. one of my top 5 dream-builds is a v10 tdi delorean :sigh:

What if EVERY car was electric?

How would the energy demands be met, and would it be better than what we have now?