Buyback date confirmed... extreme seller's remorse sets in...

MyAvocation said:

I'm heavily leaning towards a TSI.

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Do it!!! I have zero regrets parking the TDI and picking up the TSI replacement.

My turn in date is Dec 29th. Got into a 2017 Q50 3.0T and never looked back. The power, comfort, handling, cockpit, electronics is leagues ahead but it's also more $$$. I did enjoy my 2013 NMS but it left me wanting more in the power department and the very slow navigation and rearview camera were just embarrassing in a car in this class. Like other owners have said, I will miss the fuel economy, even when driven super aggressively hard.

tdiatlast said:

Uhh...well...you walked right into this one! Would the "...European value system..." you're referring to include VAG????...

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Haha, touche. But the debate of unrealistic and extremely aggressive NOx requirements aside, I'm talking about the other values. Like high performance, small literage engines. Thoughtful design, like folding rear seats. Good fit and finish and quality of materials, like dashboards that don't bounce when you hit a bump. Just look at the pure garbage GM was making in the 90's. That was the pinnacle of American market cars designed with maximum profit in mind. Cars that nobody else, anywhere in the world would ever touch.

I wonder what will happen if you decide to keep the car and then VW announces they can't come up with a fix. So then they will offer a buyback as we well know. But various people are saying they will just keep the car anyway or get a Malone tune, etc. The fly in the ointment that does not seem to be getting much attention is that the EPA may forbid the states from registering any of the affected VW diesels after 2018! If so, that makes the car essentially worthless at that point. Comments??

Any state that took settlement money can not refuse to register your car. That is part of the agreement when they accepted the money. If you are in a state that did not take the money, who knows.

boomer1 said:

I wonder what will happen if you decide to keep the car and then VW announces they can't come up with a fix. So then they will offer a buyback as we well know. But various people are saying they will just keep the car anyway or get a Malone tune, etc. The fly in the ointment that does not seem to be getting much attention is that the EPA may forbid the states from registering any of the affected VW diesels after 2018! If so, that makes the car essentially worthless at that point. Comments??

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DO THE BUYBACK, I choose the fix & cash and they accepted my 7 pages and now its all on hold- no money or fix. here is the exact verbiage: "Your acceptance of our offer is complete. We will notify you if EPA/CARB approve an emissions modification for your vehicle. Once an approved emissions modification is available, Volkswagen will then contact you regarding next steps."

16vjohn said:

GM really upped their game after their taxpayer funded bankruptcy. Politics aside, I think they make good products now. Their German Opel stuff is bleeding over into their global market. The European value system is having a pretty big impact on North America, and I think that's good.
....

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Well something definitely changed for the better for Chevrolet if this Impala is any indication. The first thing I noticed was that it drives very similarly to a German car. In other words, it has that feel that the car's dynamics are very predictable, responsive, and well, like you and the car are one. My first thought was that they enlisted some German engineers on this thing. It would not be unusual, since they enlisted Toyota's Variable Valve Technology on this V6 engine. It rides smoother and quieter than my Passat without compromising handling. And the infotainment/navigation system is far better than the Passat's (although it wouldn't take much to be far better than the RNS-510)

I turned my 12 TDI Passat in last friday. I hadn't driven the car since March when it developed a water pump leak, with 86K miles on the car. The drive reminded me of all the things I liked about the car and I did feel some remorse about turning it in. But then again, I didn't miss the fact that with outside temps in the single digits and a partially plugged heater core, I covered about 40 miles of the 65 mile trip to the dealership before I was warm. All the time the adblue warning light was flashing and on my last startup I got a "150 miles to no start" warning. It is not the emission cheating issues that caused me to return the car to VW, it was all the other quality issues that I just said enough is enough. And why I won't be taking a chance on any other VW product in the near future. My 02 TDI Golf is still going strong with 290K miles on it, although it looks like I might have a radiator leak I need to investigate. I am going to drive the Golf until the wheels fall off, but as others have mentioned, the Passat just had too many corners cut when building it that it is not a long term keeper... so it went back.

Hey guys, am I missing something here? Why are people in a rush to trade in their cars when it sounds like driving under 12,000 miles a year results in minimal depreciation or at least lower depreciation than what would kick into effect with say a brand new replacement car? I am at step 18 on the VWGoA site where I attest to my current mileage and set a date for a buyback appointment but decided to stop and ask you guys some questions.
Am I correct in that I could set an appointment on the website for as late as Sept 2018 (looks like Dec 2018 from the earlier online calendar) and get the most I can out of this TDI?
I realize that P401 codes may pop up from time to time due to my flaky DPF/EGR issues and stick enough chewing gum in the exhaust rust holes to scrape by my annual safety inspection, do my 507 spec oil and filter changes and don't tear the timing belt shouldn't I consider the wait until late 2018?

I sold back my 2012 Jetta TDI on 12/21/2016 with 146,000 miles. I was on the fence like many with the decision but replaced it with a 2017 Passat SEL. The incentives in the DC area was over $7000 off MSRP and that was the driving factor.

I miss the DSG but the 1.8T EA888 is deceptively smooth. Ultimately, I am very happy with the new car.

SmokeyPete said:

Hey guys, am I missing something here? Why are people in a rush to trade in their cars

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If you total it, or incur a mechanical failure outside of warranty that renders it un-drivable...you are out $$. There is a risk continuing to drive.


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IFRCFI said:

If you total it, or incur a mechanical failure outside of warranty that renders it un-drivable...you are out $$. There is a risk continuing to drive.
<snip>

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There was a risk when I got out of bed this morning. It's interesting how it pops up in these threads that "unless you do the buyback ASAP, your car is in great peril."
Let's examine these:

1. First, I will preface my statement that if one totals any car less than 15 years old, some loss is inevitable; it's a given. BUT: the idea of a major loss from a total loss on one's Dieselgatemobile goes back to Summer '16, when there WAS a window whereby totalling a car out resulted in only the insurance settlement, and nothing else. That is no longer true; do not believe that. The window closed (in September, I believe), and now a total loss means that the owner can collect BOTH the insurance settlement and the compensation package (greater than or equal to $5100). Odds are good in getting about the same as a straight buyback. So much for that risk. Upon close examination, it's not that great.

2. The second item is real. The question that must be asked: is it probable? All the "bad new threads" in the forums might make some people believe that these cars are having all kinds of major mechanical problems. The Internet attracts bad news like a dead zebra on the Serengeti attracts spotted hyænas. I suspect the incidence of most of these things is quite low, and, lacking actual data, I go by experience. I've been driving regularly for just about 50 years, and in that time we've owned 15 or so vehicles. In that time, we have had our share of repairs, but NO engine failures, NO transmission failures, only a few repairs in four figures. And most of our cars were bought well used (70-80K), and well driven (150-180K). So, how great of a risk exists for someone running in this second category? As someone else remarked in another thread, a person will likely save as much money driving their car to the end of the buyback period (as we intend on doing) as they would spend on a major repair.

So— I just can't take these risks seriously. They're real, but the probability is so low, I'll take my chances.

Trade-In now vs risk

I should have added before that yes, one needs to drive extra careful or at least careful enough so that no collision bad enough for the engine to become inoperable occurs. Also, I did my timing belt less than 40,000 miles ago and have been very good about fuel filter replacement too. I guess I do need to cross my fingers about the HPFP and also use good fuel.

If I go past step 18 now can I schedule a date for late 2018 or do I need to do that early in 2017 to get such a late date?

Also, how do they know my current mileage? Do I need to drop by the dealer before the trade in or is it just based on the honor system?

Thanks for the tips.

-Pete

SmokeyPete said:

Also, how do they know my current mileage? Do I need to drop by the dealer before the trade in or is it just based on the honor system?
Thanks for the tips.
-Pete

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They asked for the mileage when you registered, and they will check it at buyback time. Every message says that the quoted buyback price could be adjusted at that time based on actual mileage.

Rico567 said:

...I go by experience. I've been driving regularly for just about 50 years, and in that time we've owned 15 or so vehicles. In that time, we have had our share of repairs, but NO engine failures, NO transmission failures, only a few repairs in four figures.

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Nice... but, how many of those 15 cars had high pressure fuel pumps, fragile turbos, poorly designed clutches, and about 6 points of failure on the emissions equipment? Concern is legitimate, I think. And, it's not just TDIs, the complexity of new cars is staggering.

File this under first world problems, but I sure do miss the remote start. My new $50K Audi didn't come with it (apparently no Audi's do). That was a nice standard feature of the SEL Passat.

Curious if the 2016 gassers have the factory remote start...

No remorse: BS during buyback attempt = anger

VW has well and truly pissed me off at this point. I loved my 2013 Passat TDI SEL until the news broke. Then I liked it but felt bad because of the cheating. Got some relief because of the good buyback offer. That came in November. Today was my buyback date. Now I'm well and truly pi$$ed off.
When my mileage was entered into their magic system, it said I had driven more than the allowed miles, making the offer value void. It gets really screwy here:
In August, when I filled in the original claim, mileage was 39956. In November, when the offer letter was received, 41390. Today, when I tried to return the car, 42335. No way have I exceeded 1042 miles per month. Yet VW's crack buyback app said the check they cut was too high because of mileage. Grrrr.
I called the claims line. The first person said it was because mileage was under 40K when I opened the claim but over 40K in Nov, which bumped me down. That can't be right because the mileage figure is adjusted based on months since Sept 2015 when the base was set (according to the FTC consent order attachment 2C.) The second person said, no, the mileage wasn't too high, the check amount was too low because I'd made another loan payment waiting for my appointment. In fact, the check amount was higher than the offer letter, by the amount of the loan payment. That doesn't make sense, either. I asked to speak to a supervisor and was told I could not hold. They'll call me.
I'm really confused and truly unhappy with VW at this point.
Does anyone know of an online tool that calculates the buyback according to the FTC documents? Or is everyone taking VWcourtsettlement.com at their word?

IIRC, you're supposed to input the expected mileage at turn-in, not the actual mileage at the time you filed your claim. Not having gone through the process myself, I could be wrong about that... feel free to correct me if that's the case.

So being the obsessive idjit I am, I read through the FTC settlement documents and built a spreadsheet following the settlement calculation in attachment 1A and 2C. As I read the settlement, the only mileage figure that matters is the one at the date VW buys back the car. The basic formula sets a base value for each model and trim level (plus/minus specific accessories.) Next a mileage adjustment is calculated, based on the number of months between September 2015 and the turn-in date. The number of months is multiplied by 1042. The resulting figure is subtracted from the mileage at turn-in. The resulting number is used to look up a positive or negative adjustment in attachment 2 (2C for Passats.) If the car has driven less than 1042 miles per month, the amount actually goes up.

Following this formula, I ended up with exactly the number VW specified on the buyback agreement.

Here's the fun: when I looked at the photo of the VW adjustor-person's screen, I noticed it not only said the amount was too high, it also told the adjustor to double-check the mileage and scroll down for options. He did not scroll down, so this whole thing may simply be due to a fat-finger on a touchscreen.

In the meantime, I'm parking the passat; because it is another five weeks until the next available appointment, and my miles won't increase, I'll actually make a few more bucks on the transaction.

at least you get money, no eta when or even if us "fix" option owners get cash of any type