DSG service and being level

I plan on doing the DSG service soon, in my driveway.

This driveway slopes down from the garage door to the street, so if I park normally, the nose of the car is higher than the rear. Conversely, if I back in, my front is lower than the rear. It's not extremely steep, but maybe a rise of 6-12 inches over the length of the car.

When I change the oil, I back in and then jack up the front and use stands in an attempt to get as level as possible. So far this hasn't been an issue, as I slide in under the front which is raised while the rear sits on the ground. Does this make sense?

My concern with the dsg service is the problems that can arise if the car is not completely level, either front to back or left to right (the street also has a slight slope down from drivers to passenger side if backed in).

I understand that making it level ensures the most complete draining and leveling of the fluid. I plan on doing the measure and top fill method. With the oil I see this as a bigger issue as the drain plug is on the SIDE of the pan, making the draining more picky due to the slope.

With the drain on the BOTTOM of the DSG, does this seem like a good idea? Are people really shimming the stands in order to get complete perfect level-ness?

We use ramps to level the car in our driveway. If the rear end is too low, back it up on ramps a little bit until it's level.

I don't own a Passat, so unless I'm missing something, there's no need for perfect plumb if doing the measure & top fill method. The obvious risk being current fluid level.

MyAvocation said:

I don't own a Passat, so unless I'm missing something, there's no need for perfect plumb if doing the measure & top fill method. The obvious risk being current fluid level.

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My main concern is that the consensus is that X.X liters of fluid is drained on average and simply put that amount back in plus a little for the filter as usual. I worry that I may only drain out somewhat less depending on the pan design (if there are irregular areas that could possible have fluid pool in them if tilted a particular way). I can confirm that the oil drain is particular to the tilt, as I got a little more out of the pan by adjusting the stand height on the passenger side (facing down this was the "lower" side).

I am on a corner lot and just round the corner is mostly flat. This would mean that all 4 sides would have to be jacked requiring 2 additional stands. Which I don't have.

Or I can just do my best and drain what comes out and use that as the basis to refill, knowing that this method never really drains the entire DSG anyway.

How much are we talking about here? A couple of ounces of fluid isn't going to make a difference for the DSG. If we're talking about a half liter or more, you might want to start paying attention to how level it is.

My 40K DSG service is coming up shortly, and I don't intend to pay the slightest bit of attention to the level of our Passat. I own a set of Rhino ramps, and, sure the car will be incline to the rear. And, as I recall from pictures, the drain plug is on the rear of the DSG, so the maximum that can drain, will drain. And since I'm doing the drain / measure / refill method, I don't see how there could possibly be anything else to it. This has been done by many people, and I haven't read one instance of anything going wrong. The figure to be drained and replaced seems to be about 4.6 - 4.7 liters, which leaves a couple of liters undrainable except by complete disassembly of the transmission. My view on this is don't overthink it.

even my lift isn't level as its a sloped shop floor for water drainage, the plug is pretty centered so you should be fine, the most important thing to do is crack loose the DSG filter housing- you will here a lot of fluid drain that's vacuumed in suspension

I raised the car to take the plastic belly pan off, lowered it back down, drained the fluid, and then refilled it. There's enough room to reach under the car to connect the fill hose. Just make sure that the car stays running when the hose is disconnected. If you shut the engine off and the drain plug isn't back in place you'll hear a loud wet fart sound and the oil will start draining. When the car is running with the drain plug out only the excess fluid will drain.

BarryT82 said:

I raised the car to take the plastic belly pan off, lowered it back down, drained the fluid, and then refilled it. There's enough room to reach under the car to connect the fill hose. Just make sure that the car stays running when the hose is disconnected. If you shut the engine off and the drain plug isn't back in place you'll hear a loud wet fart sound and the oil will start draining. When the car is running with the drain plug out only the excess fluid will drain.

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You are doing bottom fill. In the 5th paragraph of the OP, you will find that he plans on doing a top fill.

I did the DSG with ramps, drain measure and fill, and no issues as of yet, I even guesstimated on how much was drained.

I figured it'd drain everything out that could have if the car was level.

Rico567 said:

You are doing bottom fill. In the 5th paragraph of the OP, you will find that he plans on doing a top fill.

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That doesn't matter when you're draining the excess fluid out.

With the proper fill to overflow with the snorkel installed a little off level would make little or no difference.
The tube is more or less in the middle of the pan and the part that is high is about what is the part low. The excess runs out of the overflow pipe when it is at the proper temp.
No problems.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I was just worried that there may be some pockets where fluid could be caught and not drained at a certain angle. As I mentioned, our method doesn't train out all of the fluid anyway, so even if it is 1/2 quart short, the majority is being changed.

gcodori said:

Thanks everyone for the advice. I was just worried that there may be some pockets where fluid could be caught and not drained at a certain angle. As I mentioned, our method doesn't train out all of the fluid anyway, so even if it is 1/2 quart short, the majority is being changed.

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Yes, you are correct. Factory fill on the DSG is around 6.5 liters, which means there are going to be about two liters left inside when drained. The only way to remove that oil would be to completely disassemble the transmission. This means the whole intention of VW is just that about 2/3 of the used oil is replaced with fresh oil each time, with a new filter to back everything up.
The way to ensure there are no 'pockets' is to follow the procedure of starting the car and shifting through all the gears once the new oil has been added to the transmission. This should be done with the main drain plug still out, as it will also have the added advantage of discharging any excess fluid out the snorkel.
I've read enough accounts of people doing top fills so that I completely discount the idea of there being some critical temperature that must be attained after refilling the oil. Someone posted a graph showing how much the oil will expand / contract with changes in temperature, and it's not enough to cause a problem.

One last question - what's the proper way of removing the air filter box? Most of the writeups or videos start with the part already removed or simply say to remove it.

Are there specific bolts to remove? Are they in the box where the filter resides? I already changed the filter a few weeks ago so I'm somewhat familiar with this area of the car.

I removed the battery, bolts are outside the filter and the entire assembly will lift out. The one tool you may not have is the huge allen wrench for the plug and the sockets for the filter cap.

You can actually (just) see the filter without removing the battery tray, but even with the air box moved, it seemed too difficult to a. unscrew b. remove without severe spillage and c. replace without knocking dirt into the fitting, so I gave up and removed everything in the way.

A few month later, Hazet came out with a DSG wrench that they describe as obviating the need to remove the battery. Item 2169-24, available for $120 from ECS or 1/3 that from various European sources that don't necessarily ship to the US. It's a bent ring wrench with a 1/2" drive socket.
It doesn't necessarily fix the extreme crowding of the DSG filter in the Passat (and would you still need to reach in and pick it up - and is that possible with the battery there?), and the NMS Passat is likely the one VW they didn't try this on - but it's an interesting possibility.

Any way you do it, it's enough of a hassle that I'd recommend (and did) an extra fill (and brief engine run and shift-through) and drain of fresh fluid before the final fill, thereby replacing much more of the fluid without much additional effort. Especially on the first change, which according to some German fluid analyses brings out vastly more clutch debris than subsequent changes, and frankly might ought to be done earlier, that extra $100 might extend DSG lifespan quite a lot.

jrm said:

I removed the battery, bolts are outside the filter and the entire assembly will lift out. The one tool you may not have is the huge allen wrench for the plug and the sockets for the filter cap.

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Are you talking about the 14mm allen head bit for the DSG drain plug? I have that...was a pain to find but surprisingly found a set of hex bits from O'Reilly Auto for about $16. Has 6mm thru 20mm. The 8mm bit usesa 1/4 socket - I'll use a short extension with the bit on the end. Does anyone know if an 8mm connected to a 1/4 inch socket extension will fit thru the main plug hole?

I've see some of the DSG vids that show the 8mm "bit" being longer. My 8mm bit is quite short in length - the whole thing including the socket is only about 1 inch. As I mentioned I'll use a 1/4 extension on the end of the 1/4 bit.

Here's a pic of the set - the stubby one will be fine for the DSG drain - I'm worried about the 8mm one...should I get one of those 8mm "T" style hex key things?



Thanks again for the help - first time servicing the DSG - want to make sure I have all of the parts.

gcodori said:

Are you talking about the 14mm allen head bit for the DSG drain plug? I have that...was a pain to find but surprisingly found a set of hex bits from O'Reilly Auto for about $16. Has 6mm thru 20mm. The 8mm bit usesa 1/4 socket - I'll use a short extension with the bit on the end. Does anyone know if an 8mm connected to a 1/4 inch socket extension will fit thru the main plug hole?
I've see some of the DSG vids that show the 8mm "bit" being longer. My 8mm bit is quite short in length - the whole thing including the socket is only about 1 inch. As I mentioned I'll use a 1/4 extension on the end of the 1/4 bit.
Here's a pic of the set - the stubby one will be fine for the DSG drain - I'm worried about the 8mm one...should I get one of those 8mm "T" style hex key things?

Thanks again for the help - first time servicing the DSG - want to make sure I have all of the parts.

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Followup question - is the socket size on the filter housing the same as the oil filter housing on the 2012 - 2014 models (top filter housing location)?

gcodori said:

Followup question - is the socket size on the filter housing the same as the oil filter housing on the 2012 - 2014 models (top filter housing location)?

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You don't specify which difference you are talking about. Two different sockets are needed for the engine oil filter housing (32MM) and the DSG filter housing (24mm). Being German engineering, there is of course no possible way they could have been the same size....
I had no trouble getting a set of metric hex adapters off Amazon for about what you paid. The 8mm is a 3/8", and the 14mm is a 1/2".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007UQLQQ4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00
I don't see any issue getting the 8mm adapter up into the drain hole, given the size of the drain plug opening.
This link lists everything you need to do the change. The author also goes into both the bottom fill and top fill methods (I'll be doing my first 40K in a few weeks, and I'm doing top fill).
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/d...cement-service-vw-and-audi-stronic-oil-flush/

Rico567 said:

You don't specify which difference you are talking about. Two different sockets are needed for the engine oil filter housing (32MM) and the DSG filter housing (24mm). Being German engineering, there is of course no possible way they could have been the same size....
I had no trouble getting a set of metric hex adapters off Amazon for about what you paid. The 8mm is a 3/8", and the 14mm is a 1/2".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007UQLQQ4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00
I don't see any issue getting the 8mm adapter up into the drain hole, given the size of the drain plug opening.
This link lists everything you need to do the change. The author also goes into both the bottom fill and top fill methods (I'll be doing my first 40K in a few weeks, and I'm doing top fill).
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/d...cement-service-vw-and-audi-stronic-oil-flush/

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I had read the DSG procedure on that site. Unfortunately I assumed that the filter wrench size wasn't different from the oil wrench and assumed they were using the same.

The article doesn't say hey if you have the wrench from the oil filter it won't fit here even though the black filter housings look similar.

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gcodori said:

I had read the DSG procedure on that site. Unfortunately I assumed that the filter wrench size wasn't different from the oil wrench and assumed they were using the same.

The article doesn't say hey if you have the wrench from the oil filter it won't fit here even though the black filter housings look similar.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

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it does now.

(you can edit the wiki and add/correct/improve as you see helpful.)

gcodori said:

Here's a pic of the set - the stubby one will be fine for the DSG drain - I'm worried about the 8mm one...should I get one of those 8mm "T" style hex key things?

Thanks again for the help - first time servicing the DSG - want to make sure I have all of the parts.

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Due to the massive fluid drain, you'd want to remove the overflow pipe with an L-shaped hex key, not your ratchet. Even the moderate drain when you fully remove the drain plug suggests covering your 14mm bit, or at least the ratchet underneath, with a plastic bag.

gcodori said:

I had read the DSG procedure on that site. Unfortunately I assumed that the filter wrench size wasn't different from the oil wrench and assumed they were using the same.

The article doesn't say hey if you have the wrench from the oil filter it won't fit here even though the black filter housings look similar.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

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DSG How-To Video on Youtube if you haven't seen it yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GncqCbO25U

OK guys - got all of the sockets and equipment needed - I even have the walmart hoppy-flo funnel suggested in the wiki for the top fill.

I've been told that using the top fill method takes a while to refill.

Are there any examples where the fluid doesn't go thru the top fill method. It's my first dsg refill and I'm worried I drain the thing and not able to get fluid in thru the top - I guess I'm just being paranoid.

Any reassurances would be helpful for this first time DSG user (I've done many top refill oil changes over the last 10 years of owning a ALH motor).

Top fill does take a bit of time, so make sure you have an easy way to keep the funnel positioned. Warmer fluid will flow quicker.

TIP: Shake your bottles of DSG fluid well before adding.

gcodori said:

OK guys - got all of the sockets and equipment needed - I even have the walmart hoppy-flo funnel suggested in the wiki for the top fill.
I've been told that using the top fill method takes a while to refill.
Are there any examples where the fluid doesn't go thru the top fill method. It's my first dsg refill and I'm worried I drain the thing and not able to get fluid in thru the top - I guess I'm just being paranoid.
Any reassurances would be helpful for this first time DSG user (I've done many top refill oil changes over the last 10 years of owning a ALH motor).

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I understand where you're coming from. There are three or four different videos on YT showing top fill, everybody uses a somewhat different rig, and it all works fine (I got the Flo-Tool funnel thing with tube included- pretty nice, because the spout twists and acts as a valve). The things I've read say yeah, top fill takes longer than bottom fill.....but the one guy who had done it both ways and gave numbers, it was only about a 25% difference in time, and I'm just NOT in that much of a hurry. Since it's the 40K, I can do the air filter in the compartment or maybe the fuel filter while the DSG is filling.
I also plan on heating the bottles of new DSG oil in the kitchen sink in hot tap water, because I read that that speeds up the process somewhat.
I think you'll be fine.

Rico567 said:

I understand where you're coming from. There are three or four different videos on YT showing top fill, everybody uses a somewhat different rig, and it all works fine (I got the Flo-Tool funnel thing with tube included- pretty nice, because the spout twists and acts as a valve). The things I've read say yeah, top fill takes longer than bottom fill.....but the one guy who had done it both ways and gave numbers, it was only about a 25% difference in time, and I'm just NOT in that much of a hurry. Since it's the 40K, I can do the air filter in the compartment or maybe the fuel filter while the DSG is filling.
I also plan on heating the bottles of new DSG oil in the kitchen sink in hot tap water, because I read that that speeds up the process somewhat.
I think you'll be fine.

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Thanks everyone for the reassurances.

If it stays dry this weekend I'll give it a go.

gcodori said:

Thanks everyone for the reassurances.
If it stays dry this weekend I'll give it a go.

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I'm looking at forecasts of rain this weekend, but I'm doing it in the garage, and if temperatures hit the 60's like they're supposed to, I may beat you to it..

Well after several weekends of rain I finally had one day of sunshine and did the DSG service. Here are a few things I got out of it...

First, removing the airbox was easy, but the C shaped snorkel on the engine side of the airbox is not easily removed (I couldn't remove it even after I janked the whole assembly out and tried). I simply had to snake the tube around all of the lines that run through this area.

The battery came out easy. My ALH Beetle is a nightmare to get the battery in or out (I want to strangle whoever designed the steering reservoir to be connected to the battery tray).

In my eagerness to get everything out of the car, after the battery was removed I removed the filter housing. Bad Idea. I forgot that the system was still full of liquid and I just spilt a housings worth all over the transmission.

I wasn't able to get the car COMPLETELY level. I jacked up one side and installed the jack stand. Then jacked up the other and did the same. When jacking the vehicle which is already on a stand, the car shifted somewhat and I didn't even realize that one of the jackstands was on only one of the four feet of the stand. Needless to say I worked extremely quickly when under the car.

Next, upon pulling the main plug, I got at least 1/2 quart of oil draining out. You would think if it was properly filled the first time (I purchased this as a CPO so who knows, right?) there shouldn't have been this much...but then the same thing happens in the videos I watched also.

When I removed the snorkel the rest drained out. I got about 4 liters out. I say "about" because some spilt when I removed the housing prematurally and I also spilled some after I drained. I refilled with 4 liters + about 1/3 liter.

The "hoppy flow" Walmart funnel and tube device really should be renamed "hoppy SLOW." I found twisting the funnel from open to close forced some of it down faster.

The oil itself stinks worse that regular gear oil. Smelled almost like sour apple juice.

I got everything buttoned back together and installed the battery. Exactly at 12 noon. Only thing that was erased was the trip mileage. The time was already set. SCORE! What I didn't notice until three days later is that the time was 12 hours off. I never even noticed because the time was correct (it would say 2:30) and didn't notice until I turned off the radio it said 2:30 AM. Even my dad, who owns a 2015 Passat had no idea there was AM/PM in the display.

All of the dash lights were lit when I first started the car. ABS, traction control, steering wheel, etc. But they all went away by the time I drove about 10 feet. No weird procedure needed or vag com.

Everything seems to be as it was except it seems to be about 100 rpm higher at 70 (used to be slightly under 2000 rpm and now right on the 2 mark). Might not even be related to the DSG though...

Over all - I feel like the next time will be much quicker. Also will most likely use the wood block method than jack stands - those just don't feel safe.