Why the scarcity of manual transmissions?

I know right, I found that this forum has some pretty intense members (not as bad as the vortex though) within the first week.
Personally I choose manuals in the rigs I drive, and autos in the rigs my wife drives so that way I don't have to put in clutches every few years
As for the DSG, if it were a dry clutch version the MPG's would be the same as a manual but the nms has wet clutches that create a bit of oil drag in them.

Lightflyer1 said:

Try using the EPA method of determining city/highway percentages using average speed for the tank. You will probably be surprised as I was what your city/highway miles look like. This also lets you compare directly with the epa numbers as well as those of us who also use it.

http://www.fuelly.com/tip/555/Find-your-true-cityhighway-driving-splits

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Ok, just went out and checked my car. On my current tank of fuel, which is just past 1/2 tank (~400miles), my average speed is 27mph.

So, using the formulas from Fuelly, and the EPA numbers of 21 and 48, I come in at
Highway = 100*(27-21)/(48-21)
22% Highway
78% City

VeeDubTDI said:

Another classic manual vs. auto thread. Another round of not accomplishing anything other than petty arguments with each other. Another waste of bandwidth and time hashing out the same old talking points over and over again.

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Yeah...I'm about ready to spray some of this on my computer...NATURE'S MIRACLE™ Urine Destroyer Intense Urine Stain & Odor Remover...

VeeDub........

.....when is the last time the expression "lighten up" came your way?

Let me rephrase: if your time schema gets bent, move along. It's cool.

No lack of great (and useful) threads here.........

Time for the first Crown Royal of a sunny afternoon............

ez sends.

A Crown Royal sounds pretty good right now, actually.

VeeDubTDI said:

Another classic manual vs. auto thread. Another round of not accomplishing anything other than petty arguments with each other. Another waste of bandwidth and time hashing out the same old talking points over and over again.

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Heh! These guys are amateurs.
Out of curiosity I browsed the Bimmer 3 series site, looking for comments on the 328D (not that I can afford one!).
The guys over there are so vociferously anti auto trans, they come off as F1 professional drivers. I chuckled most of the way through the thread.

Bottom line, the manufacturer is going to build what sells best!

pparks1 said:

No, a world record needs to get the absolute farthest possible distance. I didn't say a manual doesn't get better mileage, it indeed does. But you said, you had never seen a DSG come close and to me that make it sound like it was a dramatic difference. I don't think in most cases it will come out to a big difference.

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World record MPG, not distances. I'll help you out, they are all TDI's and they are all manual transmissions.

pparks1 said:

Yes, different cars, different drivers, different locations, differing city/highway mix's.

I'd be great if we could have a loaner car provided to somebody with very established patterns. Let them drive a week in a MT and a week in the DSG. Same routes, roughly same weather. I think the DSG would be within 5% of the mileage of the MT.

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I agree, that would be fun.

IFRCFI said:

Oh, OK. Manual transmission = more attentive = safer/better? What a load of crap. There is no correlation...sorry. I'm sure the "proper manual transmission" clan will be along shortly to school me in the error of my ways.....

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No one said this...

forcedfedbug said:

I have never had an issuance company not ask the trany type.(or number of cylinders, or number of doors).
Ron

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Insurance companies don't have to ask, they already know all of this info because you provided it to them with the VIN.

For those who care to read my letter to VWNA about the "AllTrack" and manual transmission, it's below. It's rather long but heartfelt.
Below my letter you can see the response from VWoA
Dear Sir or Madam
In 1984 at 17 years of age I bought my first car, a 1979 1.8L Volkswagen Rabbit. It wasn’t much to look at nor was it the best driving car but it was mine and I loved it! Skip ahead almost 26 years; (until 3 years ago), I have owned mostly Volkswagens. From that scrappy Rabbit to my hot Sirocco, add also the first 16V Golf GTI to hit these shores – (from Mexico), to my last VW; a 2004 V6 Passat Wagon. Their appeal was not only their distinctive road feel, handling and attention to detail but that they were always available in most any configuration. The most important configuration being a true manual transmission. Every single car that I have owned has had three pedals.
2004 was an important year in my life; my wife and I started our family and I also bought my last VW; the 2004 Passat. With my wife’s 2003 1.8T Passat Wagon and my new purchase we were now a two VW family and loving it. Unfortunately in 2008 I had to sell my Passat due to a variety of reliability issues and I have regretted that day since. After 6 months of owning a brand new yet ho-hum Subaru Outback I sold it on eBay at a loss and set out to purchase another new Passat. This experience exposed me to the new and very unfortunate trend of higher level VW’s no longer being available with a manual transmission. Although available with manual transmissions, the sizes of the Jetta and Golf were not an option when transporting two children. That year was also the first year of the “CC”, which if I wanted a manual transmission, could only be had in the very base model. No electric seats, no sunroof; virtually no accessories that anyone save a fresh faced new driver on a minimal budget would do without. People questioned my sanity when I actually went about searching for my old Passat to see if by some slim chance it was again for sale. With no luck finding my old Passat I’ve been driving a 2006 certified pre-owned Audi A4. Obviously, a fine car in its own right with AWD (and a manual transmission) it’s a bit on the small side with its rear leg room and more importantly it isn’t a VW. People look at you differently when you drive an Audi; I don’t like that look for myself.
I am not a race driver. I am your typical family man who looks forward to his commute to and from work. However, unlike most, what I drive means a lot to me. I’m keenly aware of the solidity of a car, its road feel, the fit and finish of its interior materials, how it sounds and its overall performance. All things found in a fine German automobile. I look with anticipation every morning and every afternoon after work to get in the car and simply drive. But since giving up my Passat wagon I have found it nearly impossible to find a comparable vehicle. Since purchasing the A4 I have been endlessly searching for my next car. As soon as something looks to be viable with a manual transmission it’s only ever available in its base model or it’s only sold in Europe.
I realize that it may seem so, but not all American drivers have gotten lazy and complacent about what and how they drive. Although it may seem to be the case, manual transmissions are not an outdated mode of delivering power to the wheels as most manufacturers would have you believe, but more a lifestyle and passion for those who want to feel connected to their vehicle.
I’m old enough and seasoned enough to know that this gradual disappearance of manual transmissions is a function of changing demographics and manufacturing economics. I also know that most automatic transmissions have come a long way in delivering performance and fuel economy. However, with your vast heritage in car making, you know that driving is also about the experience. This experience is diminished without that third pedal. It would be simple enough if I could move to Europe (not a possibility), or bring the perfect car back to the States (I’m not sure if that is a possibility any longer).
Now I think I’ve found what looks to be that perfect car; the yet to be released Passat Alltrack Wagon. I don’t think the American specs have been published, but I am terrified that when the U.S. version is delivered it will once again be stripped of its driving spirit; a manual transmission. Every video that I’ve seen to date has been Euro spec with both double clutch auto and manual transmission with no mention of what is coming stateside.
I’m sure this subject seems trivial but with the urging of wife I wrote this letter. And as a business owner I would always need and want to know the concerns of my prospective customers. I am by no means alone in my sentiment about the disappearance of manual transmissions in everyday driving vehicles. My letter to you is at best a last ditch effort to save a vital part of what makes driving pleasurable and at worst it’s a fool’s errand, but I have to at least try.
In summary the reason for my letter is to implore Volkswagen to consider offering the new Alltrack in a true manual transmission. I don’t think you will be disappointed in the following you will receive with this configuration. I can only hope that when we see this beautiful vehicle in the states it won’t be the typical de-neutered version that we are forced time and time again to live with here in America.
Sincerely and good luck with your new Alltrack, it’s a beauty.
Michael Bellantone
VWoA's Response:
Reference # 130044369
Dear Mr. Bellantone,
I appreciate your desire to own a Passat Alltrack with a manual transmission.
As a manual transmission driver myself, I completely understand where you are coming from.
At this time, I regret Volkswagen does not have any plans to manufacture the Alltrack for the United States market; however, we do rely on our customers to let us know what they are seeking from us as an automobile manufacturer.
Please be assured I have noted your comments internally, so we may have a record of them. I will also be sure to forward your interest in the Passat Alltrack with a manual transmission on to our Product Planning and Development Department for further review and consideration.
If you are interested in importing the Passat Alltrack to the United States, you will have to contact a registered importer. The registered importer will be able to assist you with the transportation and registering process, and help you with any alterations that may be needed so the vehicle will meet United States safety and emission standards.
To locate the nearest registered importer to you, please contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration directly at (888) 327-4236, or visit their website at
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import.
I appreciate the many years you have devoted to our brand, and I hope we offer a vehicle soon that meets your needs. Should you need further assistance, you are welcome to reply to this email.
Sincerely,
Courtney F.
Customer CARE Advocate

I'm so glad i went through the trouble of putting in line breaks but i guess i'm not quick enough to know how to make it permanent. Sorry for the mash.

LRTDI said:

cars.com reports 4723 diesel in total 273 manual, 736 unknown and the remainder auto

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MBellantone said:

I'm so glad i went through the trouble of putting in line breaks but i guess i'm not quick enough to know how to make it permanent. Sorry for the mash.

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Great letter: I can relate to what you say about your connection to the machine and the driving experience. When I started this thread, I was merely posing a question about scarcity, as I was genuinely surprised at the lack of availability of manuals. I don't buy new cars very often, and I don't keep up on these these trends. I was even more surprised that the salesman seemed puzzled at why I would want a manual at all and ventured that a manual transmission was silly in Southern California because we have a lot of traffic. What? Probably he just knows its much easier for him to sell something he has than something he needs to find on some other dealer's lot. I get it now. It may be trouble finding a 6-sp MT, but I don't think it will be a serious problem. They're out there. Just not in great numbers, and the dealer will always try to sell you something else if he doesn't have what you want.

short but sweet

Want a new full sized truck with a manual transmission? You'll probably have to make your own.

Yes, trucks... the things that used to be used to haul things (hence the extinct manual transmission)...Yes trucks-you know those oversized chromy things buzzing around with one single occupant, empty bed, usually polished clean, and often with aftermarket wheels and new tires mounted before the first thousand miles? Who wants to shift? Yoou'd have to put the cell phone or big gulp down.

You can still buy a Dodge Ram with the Cummins and a manual.

dubStrom said:

Want a new full sized truck with a manual transmission? You'll have to make your own.

Yes, trucks... the things that used to be used to haul things (hence the extinct manual transmission)...Yes trucks-you know those oversized chromy things buzzing around with one single occupant, empty bed, usually polished clean, and often with aftermarket wheels and new tires mounted before the first thousand miles? Who wants to shift? Yoou'd have to put the cell phone or big gulp down.

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Not completely true. You can get a Ram 3500 diesel with a 6-speed manual.

But yes most of the uber optioned half tons actually have less payload than the Passat. You can't put 4 250lb guys in without being over payload, not to mention wanting to put something in and the bed and maybe tow something with a little tongue weight.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

You can still buy a Dodge Ram with the Cummins and a manual.

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Unfortunately, with a very detuned engine.

A big part of the increase in automatics is emissions. The ECU can control everything it needs to minimize emissions - including gear selection with an auto. Anything that you can do to increase emissions will slowly be taken away from you (skip shift crap in GMs...)

Does anyone who reads these postings work in sales? Dealers won't stock cars with manual transmissions if over 80% of their buyers want automatics. And salesmen would rather sell you something they have in stock rather than place an order. So would the owners of the dealership. Some of you who have ordered a car may remember getting a call like this: " Mr. Smith, the car you ordered came in but it doesn't have leather (or any other option). The factory made a mistake."

If you want a manual, just order it.

pparks1 said:

I drove a manual for the past 18 years. This is the first time since college that I haven't had at least 1 manual transmission car.

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Sounds a lot like me. I love manual trans cars and appreciate many of their benefits. But right now at this time in my life, I picked the DSG. No regrets. I'll have more manual trans in the future.

OP, if you want a manual go for it! You just might have to wait a bit or dealer trade or drive farther to get one. It's a great trans and great value in the Passat TDI. Cars.com lists the closest one here

Same scenario for me, had to do a dealer trade to get my 14' TDI 6MT, but it only takes a day or two. Worth the wait, although a DSG would have made life simpler....teaching the wife to drive a manual has been "fun". Her two older siblings learned on a viper, her little brother learned on a Ford AA, she was the only one that never learned. She is getting the hang of it, hills are her kryptonite at this point...haha.

DmaxSmoke said:

Same scenario for me, had to do a dealer trade to get my 14' TDI 6MT, but it only takes a day or two. Worth the wait, although a DSG would have made life simpler....teaching the wife to drive a manual has been "fun". Her two older siblings learned on a viper, her little brother learned on a Ford AA, she was the only one that never learned. She is getting the hang of it, hills are her kryptonite at this point...haha.

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Can't get an easier to learn on drive train than a TDI, though. Learned manual myself on my long departed ALH Golf.

..these threadlets just keep getting better and better.......

VeeDub, your 'Big Gulp' arrow just made my afternoon. Wish I could handle Crown Royal in something like that (AFTER the JSW is tucked into my garage, that is).....

It's all good,


best, ez

I took a look at the 2014 Ram website. The new ecodiesel seems to be more efficient than 2013 diesel, handles B20... They are showing it available on lower end trim levels like tradesman and SLT. But they only show 6 speed or optional 8 speed auto trans only in the Ecodiesel packages. In fact, when you add the ecodiesel, it makes you also take the 8 speed auto transmission.

I "built" one with 8ft bed, 4x4 ecodiesel, tow package, power trim group for about 28,400. Not a bad price actually. That is about what 2014 Passat TDIs will cost (SE 6MT). But no MT option showing on the website.

dubStrom said:

I took a look at the 2014 Ram website. The new ecodiesel seems to be more efficient than 2013 diesel, handles B20... They are showing it available on lower end trim levels like tradesman and SLT. But they only show 6 speed or optional 8 speed auto trans only in the Ecodiesel packages. In fact, when you add the ecodiesel, it makes you also take the 8 speed auto transmission.
I "built" one with 8ft bed, 4x4 ecodiesel, tow package, power trim group for about 28,400. Not a bad price actually. That is about what 2014 Passat TDIs will cost (SE 6MT). But no MT option showing on the website.

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I have the 8 speed Aisin A/T on the 3.0 L 12 VW T Touareg. I absolutely have loved and continue to love this combination (41k).

The 8 speed A/T on the RAM is reputed to be the ZF brand. How good that will turn out to be longer term, remains to be seen. So if it is anything like the Aisin (Toyota subsidiary), it is really the future configuration, now. Don't get a 6 speed anything, if one has the option of a 8 speed A/T. or 7 speed M/T. I have read in passing even VW is going to a (more speed 7,8,9?) dry sump DSG. These are of course way different animals.