VW Rejecting Non-Clean Titles?

lvrpl

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May 18, 2017
Location
Texas
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Passat TDI
Lvrpl, do you have the title history from carfax or similar and did you mean it was salvaged in March 2017? Was the rebuilt title the first dmv recording since the total loss?
Yes, the car was salvaged in March 2017 (and not to get into another round on how you view salvage titles and the semantics around that, but in the states I both bought it from and live in, it was actually issued a salvage title when the car is salvaged; it is then converted from a salvage title to a rebuilt/restored title if and when the car is repaired, passes a state inspection, and an application is submitted to the state - which is what I did).

On the carfax it shows an accident, then insurance declaring it a total loss, then a salvage title being issued, then the car being announced at auction, and then a rebuilt/restored title being issued.
 

fookin

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California
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Yes, the car was salvaged in March 2017 (and not to get into another round on how you view salvage titles and the semantics around that, but in the states I both bought it from and live in, it was actually issued a salvage title when the car is salvaged; it is then converted from a salvage title to a rebuilt/restored title if and when the car is repaired, passes a state inspection, and an application is submitted to the state - which is what I did).

On the carfax it shows an accident, then insurance declaring it a total loss, then a salvage title being issued, then the car being announced at auction, and then a rebuilt/restored title being issued.
And it was clean title up until March 2017? I have a very similar situation with a 2.0 except that the dates are roughly 2 months earlier, at green check marks on step 15, haven’t gotten a rejection letter (yet).
 

jibberjive

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MK7 GSW
The CRC "Framework" likely isn't legal, since it goes in clear violation of the real terms of the settlement.

But even if it were, VWGoA clearly isn't following it. Has anyone found an atty willing to take the case on contingency, keeping in mind they'd likely have 10-30 clients with hundreds of cars.
This. It is looking like all the new 'framework' accomplished is to delay a couple of months before a blanket denial. This is looking like many of us are headed for an outside lawsuit for the breach of the settlement and/or damages.
 

fookin

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Yes, the car was salvaged in March 2017 (and not to get into another round on how you view salvage titles and the semantics around that, but in the states I both bought it from and live in, it was actually issued a salvage title when the car is salvaged; it is then converted from a salvage title to a rebuilt/restored title if and when the car is repaired, passes a state inspection, and an application is submitted to the state - which is what I did).

On the carfax it shows an accident, then insurance declaring it a total loss, then a salvage title being issued, then the car being announced at auction, and then a rebuilt/restored title being issued.
I can only imagine VW rejecting this because it had a branded title on Sept 18, 2015. If it did it would be disqualified because you also acquired it from an auction yard/junkyard after Sept 18, 2015.

If it was clean title up until the March 2017 accident then this is very worrisome as it's a clear contradiction of para 2.16 of the settlement.
 

drsven

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Oct 7, 2009
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Bay Area
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2013 Jetta TDI 6-Speed
This. It is looking like all the new 'framework' accomplished is to delay a couple of months before a blanket denial.
It does feel like they are preparing to drop a blanket denial on claims in limbo.

The positive outlook on this, if a branded vehicle fits the "new" criteria outlined in the last supervisor report "to a tee" it would be very difficult for the CRC to backpedal and deny these claims without scrutiny.

Class counsel has certainly played coy in all of this.
 

fookin

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California
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ok, called for the useless claims support hotline, now they are telling me that the vehicle has had a salvage title during the eligibility period of 9/18/2015 (Bought the car 9/8/2015) to 6/28/2016 and that is the reason why it was rejected. Filing for an appeal today. The lady did not know anything about the February committee. Vehicle has a rebuilt title as of 1/2018 (After they told me in October of 2017 that it has to have a rebuilt title for them to accept the claim)
So just to be sure Claims is going by the settlement terms did your car have a branded title on 9/18/2015?
 

lvrpl

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Location
Texas
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Passat TDI
And it was clean title up until March 2017? I have a very similar situation with a 2.0 except that the dates are roughly 2 months earlier, at green check marks on step 15, haven’t gotten a rejection letter (yet).
Yes, according to the Carfax, it was a clean title up until March 2017.
 

fookin

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California
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Yes, according to the Carfax, it was a clean title up until March 2017.
Well that is truly effed up. We look forward to your letter you indicated earlier they would send you explaining the denial.

Ammended: Wait, correction, you got a paper letter of the claims hotline told you you'd be getting another letter in a few weeks explaining why? A few weeks? I'm trying to figure out how my situation is different then yours, besides a couple months earlier difference, and the thought is depressing.
 
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lvrpl

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Texas
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Passat TDI
Well that is truly effed up. We look forward to your letter you indicated earlier they would send you explaining the denial.

Ammended: Wait, correction, you got a paper letter of the claims hotline told you you'd be getting another letter in a few weeks explaining why? A few weeks? I'm trying to figure out how my situation is different then yours, besides a couple months earlier difference, and the thought is depressing.
I got an email saying my claim was rejected because the car was ineligible. The email did not give any detail as to why the car is ineligible. I then called the claims hotline to see if the could tell me why it is ineligible. The person on the claims hotline told me they couldn't tell me why it was deemed ineligible, but that I would receive a hardcopy letter within a few weeks explaining the details behind why the car was deemed ineligible and the claim rejected.
 

fookin

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California
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Lvrpl, good luck. Para 2.33 of the settlement defines "eligible vehicle". I'm guessing your car complies so it would be interesting to read what the issue is.
 

logmaster

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Dec 24, 2012
Location
Fort Lauderdale
TDI
2011 Jetta TDI Wagon
My car was totaled on 8/2015, and we purchased it on 9/8/2015. We have started a claim 7/2017 and at some point they have required a rebuilt title and told me that once I get it, claim will be accepted. We have completed the inspection on 1/2018 and they still denied our claim.

Those guys are obviously trying to deny as many cars as they can, and they ignore the CRC's latest resolutions. I have just filed an appeal.
 

chief poncho

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Nov 4, 2016
Location
Arizona
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Jetta
logmaster, was your car registered and on the road in June of 2016? From what you posted, I'm assuming it wasn't, since you didn't get the rebuilt salvage title until January of this year.

Unfortunately, I think you may be SOL. Your case is exactly why all this title semantics discussion is important. If VW is ruling that cars like yours are considered inoperable in June of '16 due to the title status at that time, it would be good for others to know. Basically it would confirm that the car had to have been legally registered and driven on the road in June of '16 to be considered eligible.

lvrpl, I see no reason in the revised language or in the original settlement language that would exclude your car. The only issue you may have is that the prior owner already collected the restitution payment. However, from the revised language it would seem you would still be eligible for the vehicle amount if you performed a buyback.
 
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jibberjive

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MK7 GSW
One interesting thing about his situation, is that it is the least expensive type of exposure for VW (a previous lease), so the max they stand to pay out on that car is restitution (if I am remembering everything correctly). Maybe they start approving legitimate lease ones. I can't imagine they would think it would show well on the next status report to literally have them report that '0' of the previously debated branded title claims have been approved.
 

fookin

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California
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Is there any logic for VW to send out a bulk offer in mid-May rather than when a claim has completed a review-offer process? That presumes they have completed the process for at least 1 claim but I don't see evidence of that.
 

fredthe

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Bowie, MD
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2013 Passat SEL Premium DSG, 2015 Golf Sportwagon SEL DSG
Wrong. Stop the madness! If a vehicle has a title it is legal, driving on US roads and highways. It matters not that it is a salvage title. Please distinguish between salvage title, or anything with a "title", like "rebuilt title", and a vehicle that is salvage/salvaged/wrecked/total-loss/junked/salvage-yard/Copart/IaaI/junk-yard/etc.. Lets be clear. One is driving on the road legally with whatever brand is shown on the vehicle title and the other is not legally driving on US roads and has NO title.
Beware of absolutes, as you will likely be wrong.
I have a valid title (not even salvage) on one of my vehicles. It is currently illegal for me to operate it on any public roadway, and if pulled over I would receive a ticket.
Why? It's registration is not currently valid. A title doesn't give you anything but a piece of paper (or electronic record) showing that you own a vehicle, and that you can sell/transfer it to someone. It has nothing to do with being able to drive it, that what registering the vehicle is for (terms may vary by state.) Now, i do agree that VW is unreasonable about asking for documentation produced during a specified period, but I would expect them to accept proof that the vehicle was registered and insured (liability) prior to that period. If it wasn't registered until later, I'm inclined to agree with VW that it was inoperable during that period.
 

nathanacura

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Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Location
Cocoa, FL
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
The title verbage shouldn't be the sticking point. My Florida title does NOT have SALVAGE written on it in big letters. It has a small box that says "previous branding from other jurisdictions: salvage title in GA" or something similar.
My car is titled, registered, insured and daily road driven and VW had documentation for all of that already. They still rejected it saying it was not able to be registered or legally driven on the roads.
I mean ... c'mon .. they are saying that WHILE holding my unrestricted, legal registration and title.

How stupid can the argument get?
 

psd1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Location
OR
TDI
2006 Jetta 2013 Passat SE 6Man
The title verbage shouldn't be the sticking point. My Florida title does NOT have SALVAGE written on it in big letters. It has a small box that says "previous branding from other jurisdictions: salvage title in GA" or something similar.
My car is titled, registered, insured and daily road driven and VW had documentation for all of that already. They still rejected it saying it was not able to be registered or legally driven on the roads.
I mean ... c'mon .. they are saying that WHILE holding my unrestricted, legal registration and title.
How stupid can the argument get?
Agreed!
 

lvrpl

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2017
Location
Texas
TDI
Passat TDI
The title verbage shouldn't be the sticking point. My Florida title does NOT have SALVAGE written on it in big letters. It has a small box that says "previous branding from other jurisdictions: salvage title in GA" or something similar.
My car is titled, registered, insured and daily road driven and VW had documentation for all of that already. They still rejected it saying it was not able to be registered or legally driven on the roads.
I mean ... c'mon .. they are saying that WHILE holding my unrestricted, legal registration and title.
How stupid can the argument get?
Do you know the dates that the car was originally in an accident, the date the title was salvaged, and the date it was converted to a rebuilt/restored title?
 

blONdeSTAR

New member
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Location
Toronto, Ontario
TDI
2010 Jetta
Hi I'm having similar problems. I live in Ontario Canada and I have a rebuilt title. They asked for a VIN history and now they want a carfax report. It looks like the same info. to me. The car was a gift from my father-in-law to my husband. My father-in-law didn't pass his 80 year old driver's test. The car runs great and has low miles on it. It's had the safety done. They are trying to call it "salvage" but it isn't. They say verbally that I'm not entitled to damages, but on the claims portal it says $2550 and in the settlement agreement it says $5100. Any advice?

Insurance company took ownership 14/07/25
Rebuilt 14/08/25
Father-in-law bought it 15/06/15
gift to my husband 18/03/08

In law a gift is not a purchase. We should not be "eligible purchasers" we should be "eligible owners".
 
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CalGuy

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2017
Location
California
TDI
Q5
Interesting Wrinkle

2.0 Passat - salvage title / now CA title, registered, insured - driving.
Received email rejection with no reason. Chatted and was told it had already participated. It was totaled 9/16/16 while leased and leasee received settlement compensation after title was transferred to insurance company.
SO - I now have polluting car on road. Seems it should still now be eligible for buyback but (probably) all other compensation paid.
Worst case - Am I going to have to pay for emissions fix in order to register after 2018?
I bought from insurance 8/2017 and was fixed and registered 10/2017.
Am I missing something?....Any appeal suggestions / comments appreciated.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Hi I'm having similar problems. I live in Ontario Canada and I have a rebuilt title. They asked for a VIN history and now they want a carfax report. It looks like the same info. to me. The car was a gift from my father-in-law to my husband. My father-in-law didn't pass his 80 year old driver's test. The car runs great and has low miles on it. It's had the safety done. They are trying to call it "salvage" but it isn't. They say verbally that I'm not entitled to damages, but on the claims portal it says $2550 and in the settlement agreement it says $5100. Any advice?

Insurance company took ownership 14/07/25
Rebuilt 14/08/25
Father-in-law bought it 15/06/15
gift to my husband 18/03/08

In law a gift is not a purchase. We should not be "eligible purchasers" we should be "eligible owners".
Did title change hands? If so they will probably keep to their current denial as you "should have" known about the issue by March of 2018. You should have had the father in law turn it in and give you the cash for something new/different. Maybe even one of the fixed newer TDI's.
 

Gabero

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Location
NJ
TDI
'12 Touareg '14 A6
2.0 Passat - salvage title / now CA title, registered, insured - driving.
Received email rejection with no reason. Chatted and was told it had already participated. It was totaled 9/16/16 while leased and leasee received settlement compensation after title was transferred to insurance company.
SO - I now have polluting car on road. Seems it should still now be eligible for buyback but (probably) all other compensation paid.
Worst case - Am I going to have to pay for emissions fix in order to register after 2018?
I bought from insurance 8/2017 and was fixed and registered 10/2017.
Am I missing something?....Any appeal suggestions / comments appreciated.
In similar situation vehicle was leased, leaves me ineligible. Does anybody understand the logic as to why it's rejected?
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
In similar situation vehicle was leased, leaves me ineligible. Does anybody understand the logic as to why it's rejected?
Yes, VW already paid a claim on the vehicle. They aren't expected to keep paying to remove the vehicle from service each and every time someone puts it back into service! This is the same logic as why VW won't buy back cars that have been bought back and then resold to the public--they already paid to remove it from service. If you want to put the vehicle back into service that's your choice but you can't expect VW to continue to buy the same car back.

My wife wanted one of those $3500 Samsung fridges a couple years ago. Last month, it stopped cooling in one of the fridge sections. After about a month and a half going back and forth with Samsung, they asked me for a picture of the serial number label removed and the power cord cut. Then they issued me a check for the retail amount less taxes and promotions. They haven't asked for the fridge back. I might toss it in the garage and keep using the freezer section as a spare, I could even pay to have it repaired by a third party, I could toss it on the curb or donate it. Regardless of whatever I choose, the warranty obligation has been met. There won't be any more service or payments authorized to that serial number. It doesn't matter if I donate it to a thrift shop and they sell it to a new owner. The tag says it has a ten year warranty but that's no longer true. Samsung isn't responsible for the remaining 8 years of that warranty.

In a lease, VW still owned the car. It was in a wreck. The person leasing the vehicle was eligible for *some* compensation (basically for driving around in a polluting car but nothing related to "ownership" as far as I'm aware). The vehicle was in an accident and removed from service. That's it--that's the end of their obligation.
 

drsven

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Location
Bay Area
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI 6-Speed
Yes, VW already paid a claim on the vehicle. They aren't expected to keep paying to remove the vehicle from service each and every time someone puts it back into service! This is the same logic as why VW won't buy back cars that have been bought back and then resold to the public--they already paid to remove it from service. If you want to put the vehicle back into service that's your choice but you can't expect VW to continue to buy the same car back.



My wife wanted one of those $3500 Samsung fridges a couple years ago. Last month, it stopped cooling in one of the fridge sections. After about a month and a half going back and forth with Samsung, they asked me for a picture of the serial number label removed and the power cord cut. Then they issued me a check for the retail amount less taxes and promotions. They haven't asked for the fridge back. I might toss it in the garage and keep using the freezer section as a spare, I could even pay to have it repaired by a third party, I could toss it on the curb or donate it. Regardless of whatever I choose, the warranty obligation has been met. There won't be any more service or payments authorized to that serial number. It doesn't matter if I donate it to a thrift shop and they sell it to a new owner. The tag says it has a ten year warranty but that's no longer true. Samsung isn't responsible for the remaining 8 years of that warranty.



In a lease, VW still owned the car. It was in a wreck. The person leasing the vehicle was eligible for *some* compensation (basically for driving around in a polluting car but nothing related to "ownership" as far as I'm aware). The vehicle was in an accident and removed from service. That's it--that's the end of their obligation.


Not the best analogy as VW may be off the hook for buying this particular vehicle back, but they will still be on the hook for an emissions fix under the service campaign.
 

fookin

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Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Location
California
TDI
A3
Yes, VW already paid a claim on the vehicle. They aren't expected to keep paying to remove the vehicle from service each and every time someone puts it back into service! This is the same logic as why VW won't buy back cars that have been bought back and then resold to the public--they already paid to remove it from service. If you want to put the vehicle back into service that's your choice but you can't expect VW to continue to buy the same car back.
My wife wanted one of those $3500 Samsung fridges a couple years ago. Last month, it stopped cooling in one of the fridge sections. After about a month and a half going back and forth with Samsung, they asked me for a picture of the serial number label removed and the power cord cut. Then they issued me a check for the retail amount less taxes and promotions. They haven't asked for the fridge back. I might toss it in the garage and keep using the freezer section as a spare, I could even pay to have it repaired by a third party, I could toss it on the curb or donate it. Regardless of whatever I choose, the warranty obligation has been met. There won't be any more service or payments authorized to that serial number. It doesn't matter if I donate it to a thrift shop and they sell it to a new owner. The tag says it has a ten year warranty but that's no longer true. Samsung isn't responsible for the remaining 8 years of that warranty.
In a lease, VW still owned the car. It was in a wreck. The person leasing the vehicle was eligible for *some* compensation (basically for driving around in a polluting car but nothing related to "ownership" as far as I'm aware). The vehicle was in an accident and removed from service. That's it--that's the end of their obligation.
Bizzle, your keep implying, it seems, that a totaled car is a car removed from service. It is not. It is a car that an insurance company could not afford to repair, but that someone else perhaps can. And since you're against the re-titling of salvaged cars and a VW buyback thereafter, keep in mind it's in the settlement and in the Feb 26 claims sup report.

Your fridge analogy is a based on a false premise. No one is arguing for warranty service on a salvaged car, titled or not titled in any form.

That said I don't remember the specific language in the settlement regarding leased vehicles and a buyback, if there is any, but it would seem strange for VW to have to buy back a car they owned (lessor), that someone wrecked, that was bought up again by someone else. I guess they should have bought it from insurance for the salvage value and then sold it back to themselves in a buyback? That doesn't make sense, of course.
 

chief poncho

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Location
Arizona
TDI
Jetta
The title verbage shouldn't be the sticking point.
I think you guys are missing the point. The title status on specific dates is of key importance for meeting the eligibility requirements. I know a lot of this is rehash, but it's probably worth reading for some of you guys once again. It would be nice if VW would stop the arbitrary decisions and simply come up with a specific set of documents required from each owner to clearly determine eligibility.

For some of the specifics. For the Canadian person, VW and the courts have language in the settlement to deny cars with a title branded before 9/18/2015 as salvage, dismantled, junk, and mechanically unfit. Your problem is again with the semantics of the title status. The Canadian settlement does not reference "rebuilt" salvage title at all, so that may be your argument. This is different from the US definition. See this thread for more information: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=476957

Calguy wrote:
It was totaled 9/16/16 while leased and leasee received settlement compensation after title was transferred to insurance company.
So in your case, it's a little more complicated. As already mentioned and I stated long ago in this thread that VW should not have to reimburse multiple times for the same car. Restitution payment has already been handed out for this wrecked vehicle. Using a strict interpretation of the settlement and the CRC agreement, I believe you should be eligible for the vehicle value, but not the restitution. Good luck with that avenue, especially since it was a former lease vehicle which may exclude you entirely. The language in the settlement regarding how leased vehicles are handled is pretty complicated and I did not take the time to read through it.

Nanthacura - yours is a case where the dates related to the title status are critical. If your car was totaled prior to 9/18/15 and purchased from a salvage/insurance/junkyard auction or otherwise after 9/18/15, you're excluded regardless of current title status. If your car was totaled before 9/18/15, but not rebuilt before 9/18/15, you are also excluded, based on the latest CRC agreement. If your car was totaled after 9/18/15 but before June of 2016, but not rebuilt prior to June of 2016, you're most likely excluded. The only way you are included is if your car was totaled and then rebuilt before 9/18/15, or if your car was totaled after 9/18/15 and rebuilt prior to 6/28/16, or if your car was totaled after 6/28/16 and is now able to be driven under its own 2.0 power. So for you the key dates are the date the title was originally branded, the date the car was purchased by you or the previous owner if it transferred ownership with a salvage title, the date the car was issued a "rebuilt" or equivalent title, and some form of evidence the car was operable in June of 2016.

Once again, here is the wording from original settlement and the updated CRC agreement. Note the words used in the CRC agreement (ii) with regard to "SALVAGE REBUILT TITLE". This may be a catch all that impacts many of you for cars that were issued a branded title prior to 9/18/15, but not fixed until after 9/18/15. This is also a modification from the original settlement language. The fact that VW is also denying claims based on the operable definition of the original settlement as well as the class exclusion is also where title status on a specific date is very important.

Definition of operable from the original settlement:
2.50. “Operable” means a vehicle that can be driven under its own 2.0-liter TDI engine power. A vehicle is not Operable if it had a Branded Title of Assembled, Dismantled, Flood, Junk, Rebuilt, Reconstructed, or Salvaged on September 18, 2015, and was acquired by any person or entity from a junkyard or salvage yard after September 18, 2015.


Also excluded from the class
Owners whose Volkswagen or Audi 2.0-liter TDI vehicle (i) could not be driven under the power of its own 2.0-liter TDI engine on June 28, 2016, or (ii) had a Branded Title of Assembled, Dismantled, Flood, Junk, Rebuilt, Reconstructed, or Salvage on September 18, 2015, and was acquired from a junkyard or salvage yard after September 18, 2015;

Proving (i) that a car could be driven under its own 2.0 liter TDI engine for a vehicle that had a title status precluding it from being registered or legally operated on the road on June 28, 2016 is going to be next to impossible, unless it had a rebuilt title (or equivalent) on or before that date.

CRC Agreement
(i) Owners of vehicles that were branded on or before September 18, 2015, and were acquired from a junk yard, salvage yard, or the equivalent with a branded title after September 18, 2015, will be deemed ineligible for compensation.

(ii) Owners who acquired their vehicles prior to September 18, 2015, with a non-branded or salvage rebuilt title may be eligible for both Vehicle Value and Owner Restitution if the vehicles currently have a branded title (including salvage and salvage rebuilt titles), provided that all other eligibility requirements are met. If the vehicle currently has a brand of junk, non-repairable, “parts only,” or any equivalent brand denoting that the vehicle can never be rebuilt or repaired, the vehicle is eligible only for Owner Restitution.

(iii) Owners of used vehicles that were purchased with a branded title and had a “salvage rebuilt” or equivalent title as of February 26, 2018, are potentially eligible for Vehicle Value if all other eligibility requirements are met. If the previous owner of the vehicle does not submit a claim for Owner Restitution by the September 1, 2018 claim filing deadline, the consumer also may be eligible to receive Owner Restitution in addition to Vehicle Value.

(iv) Owners of used vehicles that were purchased with a salvage title and continue to have a salvage title on or after February 26, 2018, are ineligible for compensation. Once a vehicle has been deemed ineligible to participate in the Claims Program.
 
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