BEW Smoke cloud on cold start in any weather

goodmpg

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon BEW 5spd
Hi all,
I have a 2004 Jetta BEW 5sp wagon that I am trying to troubleshoot. I have owned it since 2009 at 70K, and it seems to be making an increasing large, smoky cloud on cold start up, regardless of air temperature. It's a big smoke cloud. The smoke clears after a few seconds and there is no further smoke. I've driven behind the car on the road and there is no noticeable emission.
In searching the forums, there are a few different pieces of advice, but I haven't been able to quite relate my problem to any of them.
Current mileage is 160K.
1. Timing - It looks like this could be the problem, but some say the PD cars set their timing automatically. This feels like it might be right, but I don't want to dig in if it can't be a factor due to PD auto-timing.
2. Glow plugs - Since a cold start on a 100degree day still results in a smoke cloud, the glow plugs shouldn't be turning on anyway.

I'm a reasonable mechanic if I have a good manual or some tips. I just can't figure out where to start on this problem.

Let me know if you can help with diagnostics, or know a good TDI tech near Salt Lake City that can debug efficiently. I do not have a computer diagnostic tool (VAG-COM).

Thanks in advance for any help!
Patrick
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
Loose valve guides and leaking seals or bad rings. That is, if the smoke is blue. White smoke that stinks of diesel would be injectors. It would help to know a bit more.

Check compression. Do leak down check. replacing injectors is not done without forethought, as the price of them will set you back.

The ECU does optimize injection timing, but that does not mean that the cam position is not set. However, there is not much that changing the cam position will do to increase smoke.

Eventually, you will have to find someone who has the VCDS.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Incorrect (incompatible) glow plugs (which work all year round, despite popular belief) with the current software.

Search for the BEW/BHW glow plug fiasco. I just did one last week that some clown put ALH (11v) plugs in one. No DTCs, just hard starts with excessive smoke. Put the correct 7v ones in, after verification of the software version, starts right up now with a normal little puff.

Next would be the timing and injector health.

Timing is easily checked, injectors not so much.

BUT, on the injector side, we have had very good success with BG products, specifically the 245 Diesel Fuel System Cleaner. There are other, more involved products as well, that require running the engine for a period exclusively on that liquid, but the BG just goes in the fuel tank.

I'd check the obvious easy stuff first.
 

pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA; 2012 wagon CJAA; 2004 wagon BEW
I second the GP thinking. Replace the harness, since it will be mostly dust as soon as you touch it.
My car also starts way better after I changed the injector harness, there are ways to clean and adjust, I went the replace route.
 

goodmpg

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon BEW 5spd
Thanks everyone,
It's white smoke that smells like diesel exhaust, not raw diesel.
I have not done any work on the car other than Timing belt, water pump, and many oil changes using the VW recommended Castrol Professional 505.01 and now 507.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Ugh, poor oil choice, and the 507 is just flat wrong.

But if it runs OK after the smoke clears, no damage from that has happened yet.

I'd be checking that glow system, has it always done this since you've owned it?
 

Kevinski4

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Aug 31, 2007
Location
Nebraska
TDI
.
Thanks everyone,
It's white smoke that smells like diesel exhaust, not raw diesel.
I have not done any work on the car other than Timing belt, water pump, and many oil changes using the VW recommended Castrol Professional 505.01 and now 507.
VW recommended that oil spec so they could make a bunch of money selling replacement PD cams....
 

goodmpg

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon BEW 5spd
VW is selling me 507 at the parts counter now. I haven't been able to find any 505.01. What is the best oil choice now?
I'll check the glow plug harness today.
It definitely did not make this big oil cloud when I bought it. I think it has been increasing over time. Now it is embarrassing when I start it after work and stink up the parking lot.
 

goodmpg

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon BEW 5spd
Glow plugs checked

I pulled the GP harness. It appears to be in fine condition.
The glow plugs all showed conductivity.
The #1 cylinder had a Bosch 11V GP, 0250202022
The other 3 had Bosch 7V, 0250302002, VW N10591601

Do you think I should replace the 11V GP?
Do GPs have a lifetime. I've never replaced them, so they have at least 90K on them, and as much as 160K, at least for the 3 7V.

Any new ideas?
 

chrisvb

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Location
ontario
TDI
1.9 jetta
Mine ( 85 1.6 ) is doing the same thing , when i keep the (manual) glowplugs on it stops smoking and runs on alll 4. My thought is : low compression on 1 or 2 cylinders . After a few minutes it clears up and runs normal.
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
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Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
The #1 cylinder had a Bosch 11V GP, 0250202022
The other 3 had Bosch 7V, 0250302002, VW N10591601
Do you think I should replace the 11V GP?
Any new ideas?
Please read post #3 in this thread. Oilhammer gave a great suggestion. You need to check the ECU software to confirm the correct glow plugs voltage for your car.

They all need to be the same voltage, no mixing.
 

JB05

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Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
11v is the wrong GP for the BEW engine. They should be 7v ceramic with a steel sheath according to the latest recall. The dealer should know what software your '04 has.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yes, as I suspected, you have a glow plug issue.

11v is just flat wrong (that is for the ALH).

Depending on software, the car could have 5v or 7v plugs. The latest software version would employ 7v NGK plugs.

Since the other three cylinders still have 7v plugs, even though they are the original Bosch versions, your software likely will work just fine with 7v NGKs. That is what I would put in there (all four) and see how it does.

If nothing else, that will at least straighten that failure out for you. I doubt your car ever had the 5v plugs in it, so it likely never had any software changes.

Given the fact that your dealer has been selling you the incorrect oil for your car, I would not trust them to sell you the correct glow plugs for your car either.

So, this is what you need:

NGK #: CZ112

VAG #: N-105-916-09

Lots of dealers will sell the BRM glow plug for this application, which is NOT the same (even though it too is a 7v NGK, it is a different part number, and a different length). DO NOT USE THOSE. If you have to get them from a dealer, spoon feed them the above part number.

Oh, and speaking of part numbers, the correct oil for your car is: G-052-167-M2 :)
 
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goodmpg

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon BEW 5spd
New glow plugs, but not fixed yet

I called the dealer to ask about getting a re-flash. They told me I had an outstanding recall for glowplugs, so I took it in.

They replaced the glow plugs with the recommended N10591609 7V NGK parts, replaced the controller, and updated the ECM software.

When I started it this morning I still get the white smoke cloud that smells like diesel exhaust.

so... next steps?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Awesome that the dealer did that for you, many of them cannot seem to figure out what needs to be done. I'd share the name of that dealer, that is a good one!

So now the next step would be to check the cam/crank correlation, with a suitable scan tool.

Diesel purge or similar certainly wouldn't hurt either. But if the torsion value is all screwy, that won't help.
 

pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA; 2012 wagon CJAA; 2004 wagon BEW
To the OP: seriously think of getting a new (not reman), new Valeo starter.

I grew tired of cleaning and pampering the old Bosch starter, changed it for a brand new Valeo and my BEW starts in a snap, in any temp.

Also, my wife's BRM had more cranks than usual, getting worse and battery checked out fine by Autozone and dealer. Changed the starter for a brand new Valeo, starts like a champ again. Before it was almost getting completely stalled.
 

goodmpg

Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon BEW 5spd
SLC VW Dealer

Strong VW. They were good about the service. The service writer went to talk to their TDI expert while I was on the phone. They scheduled it, did the work on time, and gave it back. It's definitely smoking a lot less, but the weather is warm now, and there's less rough idle on startup.

I've never taken the car to a dealer for paid service work. I can't say how well they do for diagnostics, price, etc.

PedroYUL, the starter is strong, turns fast.
 

andreigbs

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Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Location
Walworth Co., Wisconsin
TDI
N/A
How's your coolant level lately? I would also check it for any brownish discoloration.

White smoke could be a bit of coolant/water burning off, it could also be incompletely burned fuel due to improper timing. I would check that too. At 70K miles a good diesel purge treatment can't hurt.

Does it smoke at any other time or only on startup? What does the smoke smell like? (have someone start it and maybe post a video, do the smell test)

How's the fuel mileage? When's the last time you replaced the fuel filter?
 

jptbay

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Location
Thunder Bay
TDI
2003 Beetle, 2006 Jetta Wagon
Seeing as the glow plug recall was overlooked, what about the TSB for 2004's crank position sensor wiring with additional ground added to computer?

Many complained of long starting, with smoke at start up.
 

jptbay

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Aug 9, 2007
Location
Thunder Bay
TDI
2003 Beetle, 2006 Jetta Wagon

Mike_04GolfTDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
What about injector seals?

If a little diesel leaks past the bottom seal while the car is not running, it would collect in the cylinder and likely make a bunch of smoke on startup.

I don't think this is common UNLESS your injectors have been removed and replaced without replacing the seals. If that was ever done before you owned the car, then it's a possibility.

Here's a story about a guy who replaced his seals, with lots of pictures....

http://joeblogs.eu/2015/10/11/vw-golf-tdi-pd-engine-issues/
 
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