Lets start objecting/complaining !

coloradogolftdi said:

Paying a extra $400 a month give or take. That over possible a year of time by the time this thing is over. Not being able to use the garage. My poor wife hearing me complain. The simple answer is $4800. It should be more. The way I see it I deserve $4800 more then the next guy who got to keep driving his car and really didn't get that much inconvenience.

For the record. I never complained about the buyout amount till I saw your very narrow minded post about how we really have not been damaged. I just want out and to move on. This is like a internal cancer if you let it get to you.

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thats not actually what I said. I asked a question, I didn't make a statement.
here is what I said-
Damages for what? they are going to want to know why damages should be paid out on top of this buyback package. What damage has been done to the individual owner that requires money?

the next question you would get asked is why should extra costs you added by choice (for a good reason, but still by choice) not be your responsibility to handle?
what makes the purchase of your new car you were making anyway and the costs incurred part of compensation owed to you? Sounds like the biggest pain was timing, and insurance on two cars because timing didn't work out.

If they pay you back for the car you are sitting on, plus whatever extra money they give, what argument do you counter with?

dropnosky said:

Damages for what? they are going to want to know why damages should be paid out on top of this buyback package. What damage has been done to the individual owner that requires money?
[/B]

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You said damages for what? I explained my personal "for what". Problem is everyone is lumped in the same group. If you don't take the group settlement your in for a long haul and may loose in the end. I am taking the settlement if they don't change it. You should be more careful and not assume people have not been damaged. Some of us really have been damaged more but are getting the same amount as the next guy. By the way the next guy is my best friend who bought a 2012 after driving my 2012 and my parents who bought a 2013 after driving in mine. Neither of them have incurred the same cost I have incurred. They both are getting more then me as well. So there you have it. I can live with it if I get the money fairly soon. I just want out. Complaining on a forum won't change thing more then likely. But your not seeing the big picture. I am not the only person who really wanted to trade and get out of their car and could not do it for fear of loosing this now bigger pay out. They had to suck it up and deal with it more then my friend and my parents.

coloradogolftdi said:

You said damages for what? I explained my personal "for what". Problem is everyone is lumped in the same group. If you don't take the group settlement your in for a long haul and may loose in the end. I am taking the settlement if they don't change it. You should be more careful and not assume people have not been damaged. Some of us really have been damaged more but are getting the same amount as the next guy. By the way the next guy is my best friend who bought a 2012 after driving my 2012 and my parents who bought a 2013 after driving in mine. Neither of them have incurred the same cost I have incurred. They both are getting more then me as well. So there you have it. I can live with it if I get the money fairly soon. I just want out. Complaining on a forum won't change thing more then likely. But your not seeing the big picture. I am not the only person who really wanted to trade and get out of their car and could not do it for fear of loosing this now bigger pay out. They had to suck it up and deal with it more then my friend and my parents.

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the big picture is the court is mandating compensation for half a million people. Some will do well, others will do fine, some will feel gyped. Breaks of the game.

dropnosky said:

the big picture is the court is mandating compensation for half a million people. Some will do well, others will do fine, some will feel gyped. Breaks of the game.

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Naturally in a group of half a million people are gong to have a wide range of emotions about the deal. So what you said is true. But that was not what we where discussing We were discussing damages. You said "for what?" The big picture is also that some people suffered real damages as a result of VW's fraud. More so then the next guy. Half a Million is a Lot of people. I am not the only one that is for sure. Why you refuse to see that is beyond me. But I am done trying.

coloradogolftdi said:

Naturally in a group of half a million people are gong to have a wide range of emotions about the deal. So what you said is true. But that was not what we where discussing We were discussing damages. You said "for what?" The big picture is also that some people suffered real damages as a result of VW's fraud. More so then the next guy. Half a Million is a Lot of people. I am not the only one that is for sure. Why you refuse to see that is beyond me. But I am done trying.

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stop putting words into my mouth. I understand your argument, I just don't think it will result in more money in front of a judge. "refuse to see" is some nonsense.

MichVW said:

This message is hidden because dropnosky is on your ignore list.

Wrench... There is an email address to send comments to. It is floating around in a few of these threads, I will try and dig it up.

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Thank you for your help!! I feel that its a decent deal but defintely could be better. Why if the car is totaled, no buyback for you. Or engine spins a bearing, no deal for you. and using trade in value instead of retail. I thought i read that VW was told to use retail value for determining the buyback value. using trade in value shorts the owner a few bucks.

Kudos for pointing out the Toyota precedent !

THE complaint letter, Draft 1

From: _____________

RE: VOLKSWAGEN “CLEAN DIESEL” MARKETING, SALES
PRACTICES, AND PRODUCTS LIABILITY LITIGATION

As a Class Member (VW TDI, VIN _____________) , I object to the proposed Settlement in VOLKSWAGEN “CLEAN DIESEL” MARKETING, SALES PRACTICES, AND PRODUCTS LIABILITY LITIGATION, MDL No. 2672 CRB (JSC).

My objections are as follows:

- I had no intention of selling or trading in my car. Yet now I am effectively being forced to part with my car. Thus the very use of notion of trade-in and value thereof is invalid in this case. VW will most likely simply crush the cars it collects from us.

- I will need another car after the buyback. You cannot buy a car at "clean trade-in" that Settlement is based on, you'd have to pay retail. The buyback has to be based at "clean retail" as of Sept '15

- If I were to actually trade-in my car, I won’t have pay taxes on the trade-in value. These savings are not accounted for in the proposed Settlement.

- I purchased the diesel car precisely of high fuel economy that these were advertised at and put on about 20K miles per year. Yet Settlement penalizes higher mileage owners. There should not be penalty for mileage.

- I would have happily driven my Passat for another 10 years as diesels have excellent longevity record. At 40+ mpg, I would have saved many thousands more over comparable gasoline vehicle. This loss of use and very significant fuel savings need to be accounted for.

- Precisely due to expectation of owning the car for a long while, I have spent $2K on VW Platinum Extended Warranty, which becomes total loss to me as I am forced to part with the vehicle. This must be compensated for.

- VW must pay some damages to the owners. It is nice that government is getting $5B, but very little is proposed to be paid by VW in punitive damages to us, the owners.

I am aware of many more VW diesel car owners with similar sentiment and objections to the proposed Settlement terms.

There is a well-known precedent of Toyota buying back vehicles they couldn’t fix, using very simple formula of “retail + 50%”. This could be a good starting point in this Settlement as well.

Sincerely ______________________ __/__/201_

r11 said:

- Precisely due to expectation of owning the car for a long while, I have spent $2K on VW Platinum Extended Warranty, which becomes total loss to me as I am forced to part with the vehicle.

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Are you sure this is the case? There are a number of threads around here where people are mentioning that they can cancel, or even have canceled, their extended warranties and getting at least pro-rated refunds.

- VW must pay some damages to the owners. It is nice that government is getting $5B, but very little is made available to compensate us, the owners.

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Very little other than $10 Billion, you mean?

VW Apologist ^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^ x 10

just remember folks, everyone who is mildly disgusted by the grasping greedy mentality of a number of posters over a few thousand bucks when the courts have mandated an unprecedented buyback option for the first time ever in a non safety related issue, is of course, a VW apologist.

Of course, it could just be recognition that this is an excellent deal for owners of the affected cars and the court clearly has our interests in mind, even if you feel you are owed a few more grand because of monogrammed floor mats.

For most of us, "few more grand" is a lot of money. Those that dont think so, are driven by chauffeurs and dont really belong here.

r11 said:

For most of us, "few grand" is a lot of money. Those that dont think so, are driven by chauffeurs and dont really belong here.

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.... a few hundreds here is a need ~~ if only to off set the trouble of buying a new ride.

... no chauffeurs close to my neighborhood.

Most likely will take the fix and live with any loss of HP etc.

MichVW said:

VW Apologist ^^^^^^^^^

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Yep, pointing out facts is definitely being a VW apologist. If I'm wrong, show me I'm wrong. If I'm right, but you think those facts don't matter, show me why. Or just hide under the bridge throwing stones, I guess, if that's what you prefer.

It's a fact that under the proposed settlement, VW is paying $10 Billion to customers. There's no reasonable way it's true that "very little is made available" to customers. It may well be the case that it isn't enough, and you're free to make that argument, but $10B is a lot of money by any standard. Ignoring that will weaken your objection, because you will appear to not know what you're talking about.

It's a fact that many extended warranties can be canceled for at least a partial refund. Whether this is true of r11's warranty I don't know, and I didn't say. I did say he should determine if it's true. If it is, once again, it will weaken his objection to say otherwise.

r11 said:

For most of us, "few more grand" is a lot of money. Those that dont think so, are driven by chauffeurs and dont really belong here.

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You bought a 20 to 30k car, did you not? The vast majority of people will get all or almost all their money back, and the longer they wait the more money they will get for a car now immune from depreciation.

If you are spending 20 to 30k and may have a loan to match, demanding 2k for pain and suffering on top of that and stating that money represents a real hardship to you makes sense?

If someone were in that situation they would not be buying a new or nearly new car.

DanB36 said:

Yep, pointing out facts is definitely being a VW apologist. If I'm wrong, show me I'm wrong. If I'm right, but you think those facts don't matter, show me why. Or just hide under the bridge throwing stones, I guess, if that's what you prefer.

It's a fact that under the proposed settlement, VW is paying $10 Billion to customers. There's no reasonable way it's true that "very little is made available" to customers. It may well be the case that it isn't enough, and you're free to make that argument, but $10B is a lot of money by any standard. Ignoring that will weaken your objection, because you will appear to not know what you're talking about.

It's a fact that many extended warranties can be canceled for at least a partial refund. Whether this is true of r11's warranty I don't know, and I didn't say. I did say he should determine if it's true. If it is, once again, it will weaken his objection to say otherwise.

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They start w low ball trade-in val (go try buying a used car at a dealer by offering a trade-in). Add few schekels. Penalize for mileage. With funny math done, they pay no punitive damages to owners. And on and on, as per my list in the Draft#1

Like I said, mail the court and make them aware of just how much you luv the settlement.

coloradogolftdi said:

I deserve to be compensated for NOT being able to trade my TDi about 6 months ago and having to buy another car to suit my need for a family car now that I have a baby. I had/have to carry insurance and pay two car payment over this time and into the foreseeable future. Right now my TDi is parked in the garage because if it gets totaled I get nothing but the reduced value from my insurance or go through some HUGE hassle. They defrauded me and now I have paid for two cars and insurance for a significant period of time. In the past I have said I am happy with the payout. But I do deserve a very good buy out. Not some attitude from VW or one of their operatives about how I was really not damaged at all.

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You are keeping your car parked. You are getting a mileage adjustment that is giving you an extra 1K miles per month. Every 5K miles gives you an increased value on the buyback.

You incremental costs are the interest on the note if you owe. Also insurance and any excise taxes you might have due on your car.

I've sidelined my car and bought the replacement. Here's my math for the monthly carrying cost:

25 interest
25 taxes
50 insurance

100 to carry per month

if you hold for 10 months without driving that gives you another ~ 10K miles, and each 5000 mile interval is good for another $400. In my case it costs me 500 every 5K interval, and I am paying 400 for it- so I'm losing 100 for every 5K interval.

So for the 10 month holding period I am losing $200. So you are not losing as much $$ as you might think. Just a thought.

Remember a good portion of your monthly payment goes to pay down the principle on your loan, so you are not losing all of the monthly payment as it will be given back to you at buyback time.

I agree it's frustrating, very much so... but the numbers are pretty good regardless

DanB36 said:

<snip>

It's a fact that many extended warranties can be canceled for at least a partial refund. Whether this is true of r11's warranty I don't know, and I didn't say. I did say he should determine if it's true. If it is, once again, it will weaken his objection to say otherwise.

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Partial refunds on a warranty is BOLOGNA.

The FIRST many thousands of miles are 'bout free to the warranty writer.

It is the last part where the value to the warranty owner comes into play.

IMO 90% to 100% is fair

One thing to consider adding to the list of complaints: the valuation of 2015 vehicles, and specifically the 2015 GSWs. According to the documents, the valuation for those is based on 71% of the retail price since there was no Sept NADA figures available. Now I do realize that cars do take a big hit when bought, but 29% for a car bought just weeks or days before the news broke seems a bit excessive. I believe somewhere between 10% and 20% is typical. It looks like the 29% is based on up to a full year depreciation, so it really shouldn't apply to the GSW.

r11 said:

Like I said, mail the court and make them aware of just how much you like the settlement.

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You have objections to the settlement. I don't agree with all of them, but I'm trying to help you present them as well as possible. If you write "the settlement provides almost nothing to owners", you'll lose almost all credibility, because it provides over $10B to owners. That is quite a lot of money. If your point is that it doesn't benefit the customers--it doesn't do more than simply make them whole, or even that it doesn't completely make them whole--you need to be clearer about that. But be careful about asking for punitive measures against VW--punitive damages are taxable income.

Similarly, you complain that your extended warranty is a total loss. If that is incorrect, you again lose credibility in saying so.

Edit: You really had to edit your post from "like" to "luv"? What are you, six?

I am 11. Like in r11

We R getting some $$$ thrown our way - but not enough, in my and many other cases, to make us whole. But certainly almost nothing in way of punitive damages - govt is collecting that.

r11 said:

But certainly almost nothing in way of punitive damages - govt is collecting that.

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Like I said, be careful about asking for punitive damages, since they're taxable.

DanB36 said:

You have objections to the settlement. I don't agree with all of them, but I'm trying to help you present them as well as possible. If you write "the settlement provides almost nothing to owners", you'll lose almost all credibility, because it provides over $10B to owners. That is quite a lot of money......

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It would be a lot of money if they were paying one person, but there are over 400,000 people they are paying.

Unlike the 5 bil going to the gov't

VtdiW said:

It would be a lot of money if they were paying one person, but there are over 400,000 people they are paying.

Unlike the 5 bil going to the gov't

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Exactly... These VW loyalists spout off like we are getting 10 Billion dollars and should keep our mouth shut.

DanB36 said:

You have objections to the settlement. I don't agree with all of them, but I'm trying to help you present them as well as possible. If you write "the settlement provides almost nothing to owners", you'll lose almost all credibility, because it provides over $10B to owners. That is quite a lot of money. If your point is that it doesn't benefit the customers--it doesn't do more than simply make them whole, or even that it doesn't completely make them whole--you need to be clearer about that. But be careful about asking for punitive measures against VW--punitive damages are taxable income.

Similarly, you complain that your extended warranty is a total loss. If that is incorrect, you again lose credibility in saying so.

Edit: You really had to edit your post from "like" to "luv"? What are you, six?

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This guy^^^^ has been a forum member since 2003 (13 years) has 209 posts (Major contributor). 75 of the 209 (35.89%) posts are essentially telling others how they are entitled to feel about the buyback. Awesome. Welcome to the community folks!

Quote a single one of my posts where I'm telling anyone how they should feel. Or perhaps you can consider and engage with the actual points I'm making, rather than branding me (and anyone else who doesn't fall in lock step with you) a VW apologist.

DanB36 said:

Quote a single one of my posts where I'm telling anyone how they should feel. Or perhaps you can consider and engage with the actual points I'm making, rather than branding me (and anyone else who doesn't fall in lock step with you) a VW apologist.

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Refuse to engage in a debate with any of the VW loyalists/apologists that all of a sudden popped onto the forum. Some people are upset with the buybacks. get over it. No need to debate with them.




****Ignored..

Yep, I all of a sudden popped onto the forum 13 years ago. I'm a "VW loyalist/apologist" (funny, I don't remember defending anything VW has done) because I point out glaring factual errors in what's presented as the model complaint letter. In fact, I'm so much of a VW loyalist/apologist that I myself pointed out what I consider to be serious issues with the settlement in Threadzilla Jr.

Few of my posts on the subject of the settlement have even given my opinion of it (which is that it's fair in principle, but there are some adjustments that should be made), and none have even attempted to tell anyone else what they should think. What I have tried to do is answer factual questions (of which there are many) and correct factual errors (of which there are more). If that earns me a spot on your ignore list, more power to you. I guess you showed me.

Guys, the problem with this is that the judge is just that, a judge. If all parties to the suit agree with the settlement...he has little to no say in the matter. The only way that the car-owners have any say is if the lawyers that are 'representing' us are not in favor of the settlement....and since the only feedback we have heard from them was an email posted in another thread that basically said "If you don't like the settlement, then opt-out", that is your choice. The class action lawyers got what they wanted...money and they are happy with the amount. In fact, I am sure in some dark, smoky room, the trade-in vs retail value was discussed, and VW calmly said if they push for retail, the lawyer fees would be considerably less.