Best gear oil for 5 Speed Manual Conversion.

sunvalleylaw · Jan 11, 2015

What have you guys used that has worked well? My DUK gets here Monday. Thanks!

vanbcguy · Jan 11, 2015

GM Synchromesh Fluid works fantastic. My transmission shifts butter smooth with it.

sunvalleylaw · Jan 11, 2015

Did some searching and it seems that some use the Motul, some like Redline 75W90, some like some variant of the OEM VW whether it be 052, 060 or 070. And some are experimenting with GM or Pennzoil Synchromesh. (which I bet are the same). Hmm. I don't want the stiffest of the bunch as I do live up in the mountains. I am tending toward one of the thinner synthetic OEM ones. I also have an email into Frans to see what he recs. He was a champ on the order and shipping of my gearbox, BTW.

sunvalleylaw · Jan 11, 2015

Thinking perhaps this one?? Not that I consider it to be a "lifetime" fill.

OEM G 070 Manual Transmission Fluid $13.97

OEM G 070 Manual Transmission Fluid
Click to enlarge OE Part Number: G070726A2
This is the latest generation of VW's multi-weight transmission fluid for 5-speed manual transmissions in all VW TDIs. It provides excellent protection and smooth shifting in all climates.

Although VW says its manual transmissions have a 'lifetime fill,' many TDI owners change their fluid every 100,000 miles. The 02A and 02J transmissions use two liters for a drain and refill.

Windex · Jan 11, 2015

If you are going with one of the thinner synthwetics, go with Titan Sintofluid 70w80 - it's rated GL5 and has great cold shiftability.

ymz · Jan 11, 2015

Windex said:
it's rated GL5

I thought these cars specifically require GL-4, not GL-5...

Yuri

vanbcguy · Jan 11, 2015

sunvalleylaw said:
Did some searching and it seems that some use the Motul, some like Redline 75W90, some like some variant of the OEM VW whether it be 052, 060 or 070. And some are experimenting with GM or Pennzoil Synchromesh. (which I bet are the same). Hmm. I don't want the stiffest of the bunch as I do live up in the mountains. I am tending toward one of the thinner synthetic OEM ones. I also have an email into Frans to see what he recs. He was a champ on the order and shipping of my gearbox, BTW.

I had the VW spec fluid in my last trans, it definitely got pretty thick in colder weather. I hear the newer VW fluid is better in that regard (their latest manual trans fluid is supposed to be suitable for all their older transmissions too)

I wouldn't say the Synchromesh fluid is an experiment by any means, it's been well known as a better alternative to the VW stuff for many many years. Check just about any thread where someone complains about grinding going in to gear and you'll find a recommendation for Synchromesh.

I was actually just thinking to myself the other day how much nicer my trans was shifting this winter... My transmission rebuilder is a VW guy and he sold me on it.

vanbcguy · Jan 11, 2015

ymz said:
I thought these cars specifically require GL-4, not GL-5...

Yuri

^^^ Correct. Most GL5 fluids will corrode the brass synchros in VW transmissions.

Windex · Jan 11, 2015

True, but that was a function that older GL5's used sulfur as an EP additive. Most these days do not. The issue with the FWD B5 platform is that the fluid needs to be thick enough to protect the Hypoid gears in the diff, yet thin enough to allow the synchros to function properly.

Synchromesh was the spec fluid for corvette manual gearboxes for a few years, it's likely OK in that regard.

As for the Titan Sintofluid, Scott dewitt uses it extensively in 01E 6speeds without issue (brass sunchros).

50harleyrider · Jan 11, 2015

sunvalleylaw said:
Did some searching and it seems that some use the Motul, some like Redline 75W90, some like some variant of the OEM VW whether it be 052, 060 or 070. And some are experimenting with GM or Pennzoil Synchromesh. (which I bet are the same). Hmm. I don't want the stiffest of the bunch as I do live up in the mountains. I am tending toward one of the thinner synthetic OEM ones. I also have an email into Frans to see what he recs. He was a champ on the order and shipping of my gearbox, BTW.

Let us know what Frans recommends. The FHN he sent me is sitting on the shelf empty as all he ships over are.

sunvalleylaw · Jan 11, 2015

50harleyrider said:
Let us know what Frans recommends. The FHN he sent me is sitting on the shelf empty as all he ships over are.

With regard to synthetic, not sure what I was saying there. I was meaning the VW OEM, some of which seemed to be synthetic, and which had thinned out as it went toward the 060 and 070. Frans recommended going with oem fluid for the 012 gearboxes. If I can get the OEM stuff reasonably, that is what I will do. If I can't get it reasonably in the time I have, I may go with synchromesh and consider changing it out for OEM in the summer. EDIt: Now thinking not synchromesh, despite a few here having success with it. Hoping just to be on the safe side and use the OEM. I saw Oilhammer post in another thread that he liked it too.

sunvalleylaw · Jan 11, 2015

BTW, here is another thread where in the end, it seems like a lot were going for OEM 070 or synchromesh. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=132884&page=47

sunvalleylaw · Jan 11, 2015

vanbcguy said:
I had the VW spec fluid in my last trans, it definitely got pretty thick in colder weather. I hear the newer VW fluid is better in that regard (their latest manual trans fluid is supposed to be suitable for all their older transmissions too)

I wouldn't say the Synchromesh fluid is an experiment by any means, it's been well known as a better alternative to the VW stuff for many many years. Check just about any thread where someone complains about grinding going in to gear and you'll find a recommendation for Synchromesh.

I was actually just thinking to myself the other day how much nicer my trans was shifting this winter... My transmission rebuilder is a VW guy and he sold me on it.

Did you use the regular Pennzoil Synchromesh, and not the "Friction Modified"?

vanbcguy · Jan 11, 2015

The "regular" stuff, not the friction modified.

tikal · Jan 12, 2015

Shell technical department

Just got off the phone with Shell technical support and he said that the Pennzoil synchromesh fluid is more of a GL-3+ and as such it would not be be suitable for our VW manual transmissions requiring GL-4/GL-5.
On the other the Fuchs Titan SintoFluid 75W80 is available at a reasonable price from Advanced Automotion:
http://advancedautomotion.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/139

vanbcguy · Jan 12, 2015

There's no GL-5 requirement for our transmissions, quite the opposite. Some GL-5 fluids will damage the synchros.

CharlieT · Jan 12, 2015

vanbcguy said:
GM Synchromesh Fluid works fantastic. My transmission shifts butter smooth with it.

Seriously, I don't want to offend you, but are you really sure about that ?
Please note this is a question on the B5 forums, for LONGITUDINAL transmissions, a totally different beast to any TRANSVERSE VW transmissions (which I assume you have from the cars in your signature). Every link to G060 and Pennzoil that are shown above are from transverse applications, NOT THE SAME.

As others have stated, the Audi/VW LONGITUDINAL transmissions have hypoid differentials which require significantly higher film thickness oils to survive. The transverse diffs are very simple by comparison.
I have two 01Es, and I would not put anything other than genuine VW G052-911-A2 in them, or a confirmed equivalent (such as the excellent Titan Sinto 75w80 that Scott sells).

Just my $0.02

sunvalleylaw · Jan 12, 2015

QuickTD said:
Just to be sure, when talking about "our" transmissions , we are talking about this lump,

The longitudinal transaxles used in the passat and audis have different lubrication requirements. VW fills them with a different lube than transverse units. Possibly due to the hypoid final drive?

In my case, it is this unit.

sunvalleylaw · Jan 12, 2015

CharlieT said:
Seriously, I don't want to offend you, but are you really sure about that ?
Please note this is a question on the B5 forums, for LONGITUDINAL transmissions, a totally different beast to any TRANSVERSE VW transmissions (which I assume you have from the cars in your signature). Every link to G060 and Pennzoil that are shown above are from transverse applications, NOT THE SAME.
As others have stated, the Audi/VW LONGITUDINAL transmissions have hypoid differentials which require significantly higher film thickness oils to survive. The transverse diffs are very simple by comparison.
I have two 01Es, and I would not put anything other than genuine VW G052-911-A2 in them, or a confirmed equivalent (such as the excellent Titan Sinto 75w80 that Scott sells).
Just my $0.02

This is from Frans, the guy from whom I bought my euro DUK for use in my 2005 Passat.

Frans said:
75w90 or 80w90 GL4 of any quaility brand should be fine. Don't use GL5!

In this thread about an A4 Audi.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=356749
And in response to my emailed question concerning his recommendation for the DUK I bought from him, he recommended going with oem fluid for the 012 gearboxes. At this point, I am just passing along what others have told me.

Steve Addy · Jan 12, 2015

I bought some Ravenol TSG from blauparts on clearance. It's a GL-4 synth and from their site info acceptable for longitudinal and transverse VW transmissions.

I think it's comparable to G50 and I've been happy, even in sub-zero weather!

Steve

tikal · Jan 13, 2015

Based on my research so far I am coming to the conclusion that using Pennzoil synchromesh fluid in our longitudinal with hypoid transmissions would be more of an 'experiment' at this point and not worth the risk. Also another interesting spec is that the Fuchs Titan SintoFluid 75W80 viscosity at 100 C is about the same as the Pennzoil synchromesh (9.46 vs 9.08). Here are my sources:

http://fuchs.com.sa/sites/default/files/322-TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80.pdf
http://www.pennzoil.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Synchromesh-Manual-Trans-Fluid.pdf

It is too bad Pentosin does not have a transmission oil for the VW G052 911 spec. Their MTF-2 only has BMW specs.

tikal · Jan 13, 2015

I was going to order this oil but I hesitated somewhat as I read mixed reviews on various VOA and some potential quality control issues regarding their additives.

According to a couple of VOA that I found on the net the cSt viscosity of the Ravenol MTF2 is even lower at 100 C, 7.5 !

Steve Addy said:
I bought some Ravenol TSG from blauparts on clearance. It's a GL-4 synth and from their site info acceptable for longitudinal and transverse VW transmissions.

I think it's comparable to G50 and I've been happy, even in sub-zero weather!

Steve

sunvalleylaw · Jan 13, 2015

Here are the VW part numbers listed on the back of Valvoline Synchromesh

LNXGUY · Jan 13, 2015

vanbcguy said:
GM Synchromesh Fluid works fantastic. My transmission shifts butter smooth with it.

Yup, been using this for years.

Windex · Jan 13, 2015

See, here's the thing about Fuchs Titan Sinto 75w80. When my local parts guy started carrying it, I was interested... Very interested, as it seemed to have the right blend of cold weather shifting / additives / viscosity for my use up here in Canada.

So, I had some tested at a local lab (new sample):

See that Viscosity at 100 deg C? Kinda conflicts with the 9.5 CsT stated intheir spec sheet. The other potential issue I can see is the amount of sulfur in the sample given concerns raised about brass synchros. Methinks I'm going to have to check another sample...

sunvalleylaw · Jan 13, 2015

man. Makes it seem it is easiest just to go with the pricier dealership stuff.

tikal · Jan 13, 2015

sunvalleylaw said:
man. Makes it seem it is easiest just to go with the pricier dealership stuff.

Which is probably a re-packaged Fuchs or Ravenol

A5INKY · Jan 13, 2015

I put Redline MTL in a customer (and friend's) car and have driven it many times since in all sorts of tempertures. That trans shifts like butter hot or cold. Just like Frans said, any (synthetic) GL-4 75WXX should work fine.

sunvalleylaw · Jan 21, 2015

sunvalleylaw said:
With regard to synthetic, not sure what I was saying there. I was meaning the VW OEM, some of which seemed to be synthetic, and which had thinned out as it went toward the 060 and 070. Frans recommended going with oem fluid for the 012 gearboxes. If I can get the OEM stuff reasonably, that is what I will do. If I can't get it reasonably in the time I have, I may go with synchromesh and consider changing it out for OEM in the summer. EDIt: Now thinking not synchromesh, despite a few here having success with it. Hoping just to be on the safe side and use the OEM. I saw Oilhammer post in another thread that he liked it too.

sunvalleylaw said:
BTW, here is another thread where in the end, it seems like a lot were going for OEM 070 or synchromesh. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=132884&page=47

Ended up going with the VW stuff as we found it at a good price online, and had time to get it, and didn't see a good reason to get something else as the price was pretty much the same. Went with the 070 spec stuff so it should be the improved stuff for colder shifting.

KCTDI · Feb 3, 2015

Local O'reilly's stocks Pentosin liquids and I noticed they had MTF2. It's a GL-4 75w80
7.7 KV @ 100*C. Touted as THE oil for ZF and Getrag transmissions.
Just wondering if anyone had tried it in an 012?

Best gear oil for 5 Speed Manual Conversion.

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