Dilemma

Today, May 20, I received confirmation of my fear. One week ago I was involved in a collision resulting in my Jetta TDI, a 2014 that I truly loved, being totaled. I was hurt with very minor injuries and only went into shock, nothing else.



Now for the explanation to the title....

I need a car. I really like TDIs and would love to get back into one (the A6 isn't used as a DD like the Jetta was). I test drove a Golf TDI a few days ago and really liked it. The JSW was nice as well, but it is a bit big for my needs, though I would certainly consider one. My worry though, stems from two parts:

1) Suppose I buy a Golf TDI before the rumored/confirmed/unconfirmed buyback is announced, I would still technically be eligible for it, yes?

2) I absolutely need a car by the end of June. I am traveling out of the country for three weeks in June and will be gone over Memorial weekend, limiting any time I could purchase a car. In a purely hypothetical situation, say there are no more used TDIs available to buy (low mileage, preferably newer, and since VW would buy the majority of them back) and I'm stuck either going gasser or looking to a new TDI. So, it would seem to me the time to buy is 'now or never' for a 2010-14 Golf or JSW. Thoughts?

I would be interested in a 2015 TDI, but am budgeting only for an older, less expensive model.

Also, I know relatively well about the 2.0 140hp issues and concerns ranging from HPFP to IC issues and maintenance costs, but what about the Golf specifically? I would love to grab a 2012 or 13 with the tech package, but realistically would settle on a non-tech with Nav. All with DSG since it will be a shared car.

How about the JSW? I've read into the pano sunroof being a pain sometimes, but test drove one with it and was very impressed.


In short, should I actively pursue a TDI now or wait, AND if I do look to buy, what should I look out for in a Golf or JSW coming from a 2014 Jetta TDI?

Glad you're okay, it's a shame your car was totaled. With the time frame you're working with, if you find one you like...buy it. Issues will be pretty much the same across the three. If you're not afraid to do your own work, fixing the drains on the JSW panoramic roof really isn't that bad. I just did mine. This is speculation of course, but if you own an dieselgate TDI, and VW wants to fix it, you could conceivably be eligible for compensation. Obviously its going to be awhile before we know anything for sure with June 21st being the next date for any real information. Good luck.

I would avoid the 2009 through 2014 Dubs like the plaque. If it had a pano sunroof even more so.

I'm shouting this at the top of my lungs AS I TYPE to be completely clear: DO NOT BUY A DUB OR ANY OTHER CAR FOR THAT MATTER THAT HAS A PANO SUNROOF.

The 2015's might be an option, but it is yet to be proven how much damage they will do to your bank account.

If having a car is a priority, may I suggest a gently used Corrola or a Camry? Kinda fugly maybe, but they usually are dead nutz reliable.

I would add that my 2006 is probably the last VW I will ever own. Diesels are great to drive, however having emission/HPP repairs that might be more than the car is worth makes no sense to me.

Ol'Rattler said:

I'm shouting this at the top of my lungs AS I TYPE to be completely clear: DO NOT BUY A DUB OR ANY OTHER CAR FOR THAT MATTER THAT HAS A PANO SUNROOF.

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Why? I've read about some issues with them, like drainage, but are they really something to avoid?


I am strictly avoiding any car with a CVT. Don't like them, don't want one. Older Camry's and Corolla's are the only viable option to avoid a CVT, and even so, knowing people with Camry's now, I specifically chose a Jetta over the Camry/Corolla.

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fowvey said:

.......My worry though, stems from two parts:

1) Suppose I buy a Golf TDI before the rumored/confirmed/unconfirmed buyback is announced, I would still technically be eligible for it, yes?

2) I absolutely need a car by the end of June. I am traveling out of the country for three weeks in June and will be gone over Memorial weekend, limiting any time I could purchase a car. In a purely hypothetical situation, say there are no more used TDIs available to buy (low mileage, preferably newer, and since VW would buy the majority of them back) and I'm stuck either going gasser or looking to a new TDI. So, it would seem to me the time to buy is 'now or never' for a 2010-14 Golf or JSW. Thoughts?

I would be interested in a 2015 TDI, but am budgeting only for an older, less expensive model.

Also, I know relatively well about the 2.0 140hp issues and concerns ranging from HPFP to IC issues and maintenance costs, but what about the Golf specifically? I would love to grab a 2012 or 13 with the tech package, but realistically would settle on a non-tech with Nav. All with DSG since it will be a shared car.

How about the JSW? I've read into the pano sunroof being a pain sometimes, but test drove one with it and was very impressed.


In short, should I actively pursue a TDI now or wait, AND if I do look to buy, what should I look out for in a Golf or JSW coming from a 2014 Jetta TDI?

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If you get a JSW I'm with Ol'Rattler... DO NOT buy one with a panoramic roof! Mainly because it's not a matter of if you'll have a problem rather when you'll have a problem. Leaks are a pain to deal with and I think that's the most common issue with the pano roof. The other issue is the darn thing simply not opening or getting stuck open. That is a very pricey repair from what I've read.

But if you're not in need of the space of the JSW go for a Golf... I own one and love the thing. But try to go for a newer low mileage car. Getting the tech package is also a must. After having the bi-xenon headlights I'll never go back to standard halogen. They light up the night better than any other headlights I've seen! The stereo upgrade is fantastic as well! I'm left really not wanting anymore than what the car came with, and me being a audiophile it's kinda rare for me to say nice things about stock stereo systems. (I have the Dynaudio system)

As for trouble areas, all the Jetta/Golf/JSW engines are the same between 2010 and 2014. You're less likely to have issues with the HPFP on cars newer then 2012, but there's been reports of owners having failed HPFPs from all years 2010-2014.
2micron makes two products that will help to either mitigate the damage to the pump alone:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=375803
And also a kit to completely replace the pump with a much more reliable pump:
http://www.fixmyvw.com/2micron-cp3-retrofit-pump-kit-for-cr-tdis/

I'd personally go with a CP3... But I'm still waiting to see how the diesel emissions thing works out before I sink anymore money into my car.

There's also the issue of the serpentine belt failing and bits of it getting behind the timing belt cover. This causes the engine to jump timing, which for a TDI is very bad and causes piston to valve contact. That's rare, but it can happen.
There's a product to prevent that from happening if the serpentine belt does indeed fail:
http://www.fixmyvw.com/cr-tdi-timing-belt-protector-2micron-tools-billet-aluminum-cbea-cjaa/

As for the condensation issues...
There's two things you can do. #1 being the winter front from IDParts:
http://www.idparts.com/2010-2014-golf-sportwagen-winter-front-p-3930.html
#2 being the "drill mod":
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=431560

*Edit to add the issue on the P2015*
When the intake flaps fail dieselgeek has your back!
http://www.dieselgeek.com/P2015_Repair_Bracket_p/egr-p2015.htm

Ol'Rattler said:

I would avoid the 2009 through 2014 Dubs like the plaque. If it had a pano sunroof even more so.

I'm shouting this at the top of my lungs AS I TYPE to be completely clear: DO NOT BUY A DUB OR ANY OTHER CAR FOR THAT MATTER THAT HAS A PANO SUNROOF.

The 2015's might be an option, but it is yet to be proven how much damage they will do to your bank account.

If having a car is a priority, may I suggest a gently used Corrola or a Camry? Kinda fugly maybe, but they usually are dead nutz reliable.

I would add that my 2006 is probably the last VW I will ever own. Diesels are great to drive, however having emission/HPP repairs that might be more than the car is worth makes no sense to me.

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If it wasn't for the aftermarket support the common rails received I'd agree with you. However, many of the major issues have been fixed via the aftermarket support we've gotten from some of the great members on the forum.

Also, Toyotas have a very boring driving experience. I wouldn't get them for that reason alone... They also aren't what they used to be.

If I recommend anything else to others that are looking for a reliable car I normally gravitate to Mazda 3 hatchback or Mazda 6 as a first recommendation. Subaru for those that live in areas that get pounded by snow in the winter.

fowvey said:

Why? I've read about some issues with them, like drainage, but are they really something to avoid?

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The problem with pano roofs (actually any sun roof) is that it just one more thing that can fail and when it fails, it can be an expensive PITA to fix.

I am not in the auto repair business, so I can only speak for my own car. It is a 2009 with a pano roof and it has worked perfectly for over 7 years. I did not want the pano roof, but it was the only way I could get a JSWTDI at the time I needed a car. Luckily I live in the middle of a desert so drainage is not a serious problem and rust is almost unknown. I am not sorry that I have the big hole in my roof, it is occasionally useful.

I do not know what percentages of sunroofs (pano or not) that cause problems. What I do know is that the number of posts here about HPFP failures, Intercooler icing, DPF pressure sensor failures, and P2015 codes ALL far outnumber the number of posts complaining about pano roof problems.

Have Fun!

Don

fowvey said:

Why? I've read about some issues with them, like drainage, but are they really something to avoid?


I am strictly avoiding any car with a CVT. Don't like them, don't want one. Older Camry's and Corolla's are the only viable option to avoid a CVT, and even so, knowing people with Camry's now, I specifically chose a Jetta over the Camry/Corolla.

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No, drainage problems are actually an easy fix. The problem with them is that when they start malfunctioning, which they will at some point is that the fix is to replace what is called the cartridge which is $3000 just in parts. The cartridge is the entire mechanical part of the sun roof.

In my mind, a big ass window in the top of my car is just beyond stupid.

Why the hate for the CVT? On my last business trip to Kona my rental was IIRC a Nisson CVT which was actually not all that bad to drive. In a way, it's like having an automatic with say 900 shift points instead of say 6.

My wife has a 2011 Camry with a 6 speed auto and is actually a blast to drive.

I have a Nissan 2011 with a cvt and while I've not had any problems with it.....yet. If you look on the Nissan forum you'll see that the CVT for Nissan is kinda like the HPFP for VW. Prone to failure when the fluid is allowed to go to long or the antifreeze gets changed. Yes the antifreeze, Nissan has a special product. Sound familiar? If it gets changed to another non Nissan brand or diluted so the freeze point is higher then -25f then you can expect CVT problems. Because the transmission doesn't cool properly. I won't buy another vehicle with a CVT.

If you're aware of the problems the VW has and want the TDI, get it.

Like they say, "knowing is half the battle".
For the OP, like anywhere else on the Internet, you'll find those that are 'passionate' one way or the other about all things. In this case, Ol'Rattler has a hate on for the pano roof and doesn't mind shouting his opinion out loud.
I've got one, and for me it's a great option - we don't get many days with sun here, so for the days we do, the pano roof lets the sun shine in. So the drains might clog some day. So the frame might need replacing some day.
All cars have problems, and if you avoid buying a car because it has some known issues, you'll be shopping a long time! At least with VW's, there is a great resource here to help you!

Rob_MacCara said:

Like they say, "knowing is half the battle".
For the OP, like anywhere else on the Internet, you'll find those that are 'passionate' one way or the other about all things. In this case, Ol'Rattler has a hate on for the pano roof and doesn't mind shouting his opinion out loud.
I've got one, and for me it's a great option - we don't get many days with sun here, so for the days we do, the pano roof lets the sun shine in. So the drains might clog some day. So the frame might need replacing some day.
All cars have problems, and if you avoid buying a car because it has some known issues, you'll be shopping a long time! At least with VW's, there is a great resource here to help you!

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This forum is one of the reasons I bought my TDI.

Love the community here

Rob, You are correct, just an opinion.

I plan on driving my TDI past 300K miles and do all of my own maintenance. It just seems to me that the $3000+ I would at some point have to spend with a pano could sure buy a lot of wear and tear maintenance parts.

Everyone's priorities are different so if having a pano roof puts a smile on your face it's all good.

You could still buy a car with a pano but never open or crack it open. If you were really nervous about leaks, you could black silicone seal it so it will never open or leak. Not great for resale, but if you find a great deal...

My pano is 6 years old, the car is not garaged, and live near Seattle with a ton of rain. Following instructions on YouTube I fixed the leaking front drain tubes for $5. I lube the mechanism annually and have had no other issues.

Best of luck

I decided on a 2016 Golf TSI SE. Wasn't initially going to go for a new car, but found a deal too good to be true and realized it would've been ridiculous to let it go.

I still have our A6 TDI, but for now, the 2.0TDI is no more. The Mk7 Golf is truly a step above the Jetta. Incredible what car VW built for that price range.


Thanks all for your help. I'll still lurk around in the Audi subforums and Mk7 forums.

Ok my 2 cents if you love having the pano roof get one, if you do not want it pass, if the car you wants has it just keep it closed , yes some of them have issues , no way 3 k to fix, I had my whole frame replaced it was about $800 at a guru, I love my roof so I paid it, he could have just closed it and pulled the fuse. The JSW is a nice if you need the space but coming from a sedan I think a Golf would work, I would call VW on the am i covered question. Good luck

Ol'Rattler said:

No, drainage problems are actually an easy fix. The problem with them is that when they start malfunctioning, which they will at some point is that the fix is to replace what is called the cartridge which is $3000 just in parts. The cartridge is the entire mechanical part of the sun roof.

In my mind, a big ass window in the top of my car is just beyond stupid.

Why the hate for the CVT? On my last business trip to Kona my rental was IIRC a Nisson CVT which was actually not all that bad to drive. In a way, it's like having an automatic with say 900 shift points instead of say 6.

My wife has a 2011 Camry with a 6 speed auto and is actually a blast to drive.

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I love my Pano roof almost 6 years and no problems but I don't have it for wind in my hair either, lol! Got little hair! I just love the light it brings into da house!! Meaning I haven't opened it since year 4 and will probably never open it. If the buy back or whatever is really good though I'll probably be moving on from this house!

Would you care to share how the insurance valued your totaled car? How we would be treated in your circumstances has been one of the fears of dieselgate.

I was in the same position as the OP, totaled a 2012 JSW (70k) w/Pano and DSG. Insurance paid $14k, picked up a low mileage (28k) 2014 w/Pano, DSG and Nav locally for $17K.

I figure the buyback will still put $2K back in my pocket.

And yes, I like the Pano roof and through the tips + tricks learned here I have no fear of the HPFP, DPF, etc.