Blackstone Lab Answers "Which oil is better?"

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsletters/Gas-Diesel/July-1-2017.php

One thing that I noticed in this article is that the iron wear rates per 1000 miles vary over a wider range for the 1.9L TDI engine than for other engines that they used as examples. They were trying to argue that oil brand doesn't matter. But I think they showed that oil brand possibly does matter more for the 1.9L TDI engines than the other engine examples.
I assume the table and chart include both PD and VE engines lumped together so it would be interesting to see the data further separated by year of engine.

Have they figured out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Use a full synthetic oil that meets the requirements of the applicable VW standard. Then sleep the sleep of the righteous.

I'm going to keep using Amsoil because.....it pisses certain people off. If any of my cars ever blow up y'all will be the first to know. (But don't hold your breath.)

-mickey

If KERMA hasn't finished off the Evil Beetle yet, after hundreds of thousands of miles of horrific abuse, then it simply isn't possible to wear out a TDI. The rest of the car will be toast LONG before the drivetrain fails. So the whole debate strikes me as a bit absurd.

-mickey

p.s. Turbochargers excepted, of course. But they don't generally fail because of oil. They fail because of compressor surge.

FWIW, I bought a 2005.5 Jetta (BRM) new. Started using Schaeffers 9000 at the first oil change and continued.....with intervals of 6,000 miles. An acquaintance of mine, who has been working on VWs as a mechanic in his own shop since the '70s, is my mechanic when I have something pressing and don't have the time myself to do the needed job. At 180K miles I had him pull out the cam, which is a well known problematic part for the BRM, and mic it. Naturally I was suspicious about the wear on it since so many others had needed to replace theirs long before 180K miles. When I went to pick up the car, I asked if he replaced the cam. He said (exact words), "Nope. Put the original back in. Don't know what oil you're using, but keep using it. That cam has about the same wear as a car with around 20 thousand miles on it." Kept using the same oil using the original cam until I wrecked the car during the Fairdale tornado. I was just about to crack 300K miles on the car before I destroyed it. Still makes me sick when I think about it. We loved that car.

X2 on the S9000. It's a shame it didn't merit a spot on the list. Would have liked to see where it fit in.

Geomorph. How did you get your hands on the spreadsheet. I wonder one for the common rail engine/engines. I am curious to see what the top performing vw 504/507 oils are.

The spreadsheet table is just a figure in the article linked at the top of this thread. The oils listed are the top ten oils by number of analyses that Blackstone customers paid for. I am sure that they have a lot more oil brands and for other engines than 1.9L TDIs. This particular set of data likely includes both VE and PD engines.

Ah, the Oil Wars... never really any treaty gets signed. A few cease fires but always brief and rare. Everyone is right, everyone else is wrong. LMAO.... never changes.

They're saying the iron wear rate goes down with how long the oil is in service. The one with the longest service, at the bottom of the chart therefore has the lowest iron wear rate per 1000 miles.

If the oils were run for the same number of miles, perhaps the wear rates would be nearly the same. In fact, if you compare only the oils that have similar miles on them, the iron wear rates are very close.

So from the data presented, one can make no conclusion that one oil is better than the others.

Mike_04GolfTDI said:

So from the data presented, one can make no conclusion that one oil is better than the others.

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So like every oil thread TLDR use the oil that makes you feel warm and fuzzy, because no matter what kind you choose it was the wrong choice.

PD Rig said:

.... I wonder one for the common rail engine/engines. I am curious to see what the top performing vw 504/507 oils are.

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From the pdf ....
"... The only real exception is the Total
Quartz, and we’re guessing that might have more to do with the
viscosity, since it and Castrol SLX are the only 5W/30’s in the bunch ..."

Still wonder ? They simply suck big time with the most wear (iron) .....based on ratio of intervals of course .

VWPassion

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, read the link, the conclusion is pointing to the fact that mileage on the oil change affects the results. The longer the mileage the better the wear results. Based on that factor the 5w-30 are almost doing on average just as well as the 5w-40.

from the pdf ....
"... The only real exception is the Total
Quartz, and we’re guessing that might have more to do with the
viscosity, since it and Castrol SLX are the only 5W/30’s in the bunch ..."

Click to expand...

We are not guessing that viscosity improves iron wear it is a known fact. But what is not as well known that this article points out quit clearly is mileage on engine oil is just as important as viscosity.

Please do more homework before highlighting crap.

It is known from studies that detergent in the first 3000 to 4000 miles causes wear and as the detergent diminishes wear stabilizes at a lower rate. This is because degerent reduces the effectiveness of zddp in this early stage of the oil change.

A good wearing cam only generates 25 ppm in 10,000 miles. So there are a lot of good wearing cams running TDT and Delvac because you can run them past 10,000 and they do exceptionally well in the first phase as well since the zddp and detergent are less antagonistic.

James & Son said:

,
Please do more homework before highlighting crap.

Click to expand...

Ok i did open the 4th grade book because i thought i talk to adults but obviously i don't .

From the pdf we have the following facts :
Fact 1 : Full Saps is better to protect engine than Low Saps . if someone say anything else ,he is too "high"....
Fact 2: 5w/40 is better versus 5w/30 based on their tests , the only way to see different results is to manipulate tests . I not say how much better , i stay at fact that IS better .

Combined these two facts we have the following result :
A) Full Saps > Low saps in terns of engine protection and longevity .
B) 5w/40 >5w/30 in terns of engine protection and longevity .

RESULT: Full saps 5w/40 > Full Saps 5w/30 > Low Saps 5w/30

If need more lessons , just tell me to do more homework .I 'll gladly teach you ...

oilhammer said:

Ah, the Oil Wars... never really any treaty gets signed. A few cease fires but always brief and rare. Everyone is right, everyone else is wrong. LMAO.... never changes.

Click to expand...

...please re-read post #7, quoted above...time to break out the popcorn...

James & Son said:

, read the link, the conclusion is pointing to the fact that mileage on the oil change affects the results. The longer the mileage the better the wear results.

Click to expand...

The conclusion is wrong.

If all these oils were generating iron at the same actual wear rate, then the analyses with the most miles should have the highest total iron levels. But they don't. Look at the table. Even with more miles, Mobil 1 and Shell have the lowest total iron levels.

I can imagine the calculated iron wear rate decreasing with miles as the effect of the leftover iron is reduced. But more miles cannot decrease total iron levels in the oil.

The bar graph on the right indicates the wear rate per 1000 miles. Short intervals have an adverse effect on the wear rate.

turbobrick240 said:

The bar graph on the right indicates the wear rate per 1000 miles. Short intervals have an adverse effect on the wear rate.

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The wear rates for the lowest wear rate oils are not caused by longer running miles but less actual iron wear as measured in the total iron in the table on the left.

Castrol TXT had 46 ppm of iron at about 8000 miles. Imagine leaving it in for another 2000 miles and re-testing. Is it suddenly going to have 30 ppm iron like Mobil 1? No, Castrol will have even more iron, maybe not a lot more but definitely not less.

Geomorph said:

The wear rates for the lowest wear rate oils are not caused by longer running miles but less actual iron wear as measured in the total iron in the table on the left.

Castrol TXT had 46 ppm of iron at about 8000 miles. Imagine leaving it in for another 2000 miles and re-testing. Is it suddenly going to have 30 ppm iron like Mobil 1? No, it will have even more iron, maybe not a lot more but certainly not less.

Click to expand...

You're still not getting it. Think about it some more. Short intervals have an adverse effect on wear rates.

turbobrick240 said:

You're still not getting it. Think about it some more. Short intervals have an adverse effect on wear rates.

Click to expand...

You are still not getting it. Castrol TXT and Pentosin are not going to have the same low total iron as Mobil 1 and Shell if run longer. Look at iron (Fe) counts in the table.

I actually haven't read the conclusion, so you may be right. It's telling that the people running the best oils are also running the longest intervals.

My take on the results is that most people who obsess about oil and send in samples are also running too short intervals.

turbobrick240 said:

He could use some lessons in how not to be an asshat.

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Get some facts first and then talk again . Just talking or accusing or insulting others w/o even try prove your statement with valid observed data , is at least pathetic .

VwPassion said:

Get some facts first and then talk again . Just talking or accusing or insulting others w/o even try prove your statement with valid observed data , is at least pathetic .

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Don't be so sensitive. I'm equally capable of being an asshat at times- I just don't cry the day away when called out for it. I'm sure you could find something more productive to do with your time than obsess about oil all day long.

turbobrick240 said:

Don't be so sensitive. I'm equally capable of being an asshat at times- I just don't cry the day away when called out for it. I'm sure you could find something more productive to do with your time than obsess about oil all day long.

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Who's crying ?.....
Facts are never an obsession .

VwPassion said:

Who's crying ?.....
Facts are never an obsession .

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Facts or not you are obsessed with something that in the long run really will not matter as the rest of your precious car will have long gone to the scrap yard before the iron wear you see will destroy your engine and render it junk.. This thread has reached the levels of whose pecker is bigger. There is no value in it what so ever. But if you must...... carry on. I have better things to obsess about.

Interestingly enough, my iPhone will not show all of the content included in the link. I followed the link on my pc and discovered the rest of the content. Good read.

MichaelB said:

Facts or not you are obsessed with something that in the long run really will not matter as the rest of your precious car will have long gone to the scrap yard before the iron wear you see will destroy your engine and render it junk.. This thread has reached the levels of whose pecker is bigger. There is no value in it what so ever. But if you must...... carry on. I have better things to obsess about.

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When posts are giving precise numbers about something in universe , no matter if is engine wear or a hawk max speed or an ant max carry weight , if wanna post and follow it ,you must give precise numbers too .Its not called obsession ,its called proves or facts . If have no facts or data if wanna call it like this , don't post .
Who told you that the car will be junk before my engine destroyed ? Facts please....

VwPassion said:

When posts are giving precise numbers about something in universe , no matter if is engine wear or a hawk max speed or an ant max carry weight , if wanna post and follow it ,you must give precise numbers too .Its not called obsession ,its called proves or facts . If have no facts or data if wanna call it like this , don't post .
Who told you that the car will be junk before my engine destroyed ? Facts please....

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Post your facts please as all I have heard from you is the fact that you read stuff from other on websites around the world with no facts to back it up. You say things like " you do not see so you don not know"We here on this forum and I use we liberally do not see the total destruction of TDI engines that you speak about over and over and over again. I also cannot see that your posts have changed any thought process here. Yes, you are obsessed with it. You preach to the world that you are the messiah of engine oil in TDI engine. Get a life.

Maybe this is why the Greek economy is continually needing bailouts from the rest of Europe. They are too busy arguing about an ants max payload to get any work done. What would Aristotle think? Sad.