Amsoil In this Thread only

tttthumper said:

To the Admin:
Like many, I've been on the internet for years, and there is lots of great information to read.
I agree with some of the rules in this thread, but why are testimonials not allowed. If Amsoil has it's own thread, it seems wrong to not allow users to give their years of experience using the product.

Testimonials or networking of people, is how word spreads around. People talk about their success with their oil, their tires, their brakes, their fuel additive or the extra power that they got with their modification.

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The answer is because testimonials don't mean anything. Testimonials are just 'feel good' posts by the cheerleader/fanboys. Testimonials simply bring out testimonial type posts by the competition.

"I've used Amsoil for over 30 years and over 1 million miles without one engine failure!!"

So what. The common retort is that many others will post the exact same message with only one difference; they will insert their oil brand of choice. "I've used whatever-brand oil for over 30 years and over 1 million miles without one engine failure!!" Nothing is learned or accomplished by testimonials and it only perpetuates a dead end argument.

Testimonials in general are not highly regarded here. When some new chip comes along claiming high gains, the membership is quick to jump on the poster demanding to see current dyno runs.

'testimonial'?

nicklockard said:

Whereas with Amsoil MLM'ers, your intent is quite clear: to profit from us, at our expense.

Ergo:

For-profit sales testimonials = not allowed.
Enthusiast and unbiased evaluations = welcomed.

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A couple of points, Nick, if I may:

- The first is on intent. Can you provide any data of any type that supports my intent to profit, or any signs of actually profiting from this group? How about for any other dealer or jobber on this forum? Is there any possibility your statement is a result of your own belief and/or bias?

The truth for me and my business is that someone here would have to pay me about $500 to break even. I've sold to TDIers at my cost, given products to members, shipped products from my own personal stock with no charge for product or shipping, and spent hours researching and supporting - without hopes of business benefit - because I'm a TDIer and want to support this forum.

Additionally, I haven't found an AMSOIL dealer or jobber here that's made any money from this forum. Instead they give their time and experience because they are TDI enthusiasts and want to give back to the group.

- The second is on testimonials. I agree with Brian here - testimonials are worthless for science. UOA is better, but still not a product comparison device.

- Lastly, I have to disagree with your suggestion that anything 'AMSOIL' is welcomed in this forum - either from vendors or 'enthusiasts' (as if to imply it's one or the other?).

Take a look at the UOA database thread. Why are there AMSOIL users there that will not use their name or handle and are listed as 'anonymous' instead? Why do people think this is the 'AMSOIL' thread - and not what it really is - a sticky with post rules?

Most AMSOIL users here don't post - they've been pushed 'underground' by the free-range bashing that's been allowed on the forum. Bashing a moderator gets one banned. But it's ok to abuse some vendors and members here. It's ok to take the abuse to personal and business voicemail and e-mail, and it's OK for members here to attack dealers in e-mail to AMSOIL corporate.

Sorry Nick - that doesn't work for me.

Andy

tttthumper said:

I totally agree. To the BETTERMENT and ENJOYMENT of the TDI enthusiast.


From what I've read, I agree, it seems to have gotten way out of hand, but, you sure the anti amsoil cult didn't have anything to do with the "spamming"?

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All the spamming is from one direction, i.e. gushing, un-genuine testimonials (my take.)

ttthumper said:

So all the average joes on here that use Amsoil who stand nothing to gain or lose, can tell about their testimonials?

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See Brian's response. It is perfectly stated.

ttthumper said:

So every other vendor's intent is quite clear as well, to make a profit from us at our expense? I don't see the difference.

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When they treat Tdiclub as their personal playground and start spamming their wares, they get warned and a temp-ban if they don't rein it in. As a moderator, I've seen whole threads and huge posts dumped to the blackhole section (one of the sub-forums for moderators not visible to the public.) I've also seen temp bans placed. IOW: they are held accountable. This is our structure. We are NOT vendor supported like the vast majority of car enthusiast forum websites. We are unique and diverse and we demand real data. We call out what we think is BS anecdotal "testimonials." That is just the way we are. If you don't like the culture of Tdi Club, there are other clubs to go to if you want a vendor-dominated atmosphere where the club serves their commercial interests first...

tttthumper said:

So any message for a PROFIT SALES TESTIMONIAL is not allowed in the forums?


"I DID NOT know that already" hence me posting a message.
So I consider myself an enthusiast, who is not a dealer, and is not going to make any money, I can speak of my testimonials??

Maybe the first post should be edited to say what you mentioned, if the admin agrees.

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Again, see Brian's comments about testimonials.

ttthumper said:

I read alot of your messages Nick, and I see you have been on the bandwagon for several years in regards to Amsoil, they are your opinions, and we all have our opinions. That's the great thing about the internet.
You never heard about it prior to 2004. I've been using it since 1990.

I see your using the a Bypass filter, from an MLM company that cough.cough you talk so badly about the company and their marketing.

MLM can be a good thing, too bad other companies have wrecked the image of why MLM was created for.

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Yes, I love the bypass filter. I bought it from DG. I was not aware he was an MLM'er, but I don't care. He simply gives good service and a good product. I like the machined adaptor that secures it to the oil filter housing and the clear return line features. I hope it helps preserve the life of my Tdi. It's not a must have, IMO, but it is a good idea. As far as my anti-MLM stance...I think I've been clear. It's the sales tactics that turn me off.

AndyH said:

A couple of points, Nick, if I may:
- The first is on intent. Can you provide any data of any type that supports my intent to profit, or any signs of actually profiting from this group? How about for any other dealer or jobber on this forum? Is there any possibility your statement is a result of your own belief and/or bias?
The truth for me and my business is that someone here would have to pay me about $500 to break even. I've sold to TDIers at my cost, given products to members, shipped products from my own personal stock with no charge for product or shipping, and spent hours researching and supporting - without hopes of business benefit - because I'm a TDIer and want to support this forum.
Additionally, I haven't found an AMSOIL dealer or jobber here that's made any money from this forum. Instead they give their time and experience because they are TDI enthusiasts and want to give back to the group.
- The second is on testimonials. I agree with Brian here - testimonials are worthless for science. UOA is better, but still not a product comparison device.
- Lastly, I have to disagree with your suggestion that anything 'AMSOIL' is welcomed in this forum - either from vendors or 'enthusiasts' (as if to imply it's one or the other?).
Take a look at the UOA database thread. Why are there AMSOIL users there that will not use their name or handle and are listed as 'anonymous' instead? Why do people think this is the 'AMSOIL' thread - and not what it really is - a sticky with post rules?
Most AMSOIL users here don't post - they've been pushed 'underground' by the free-range bashing that's been allowed on the forum. Bashing a moderator gets one banned. But it's ok to abuse some vendors and members here. It's ok to take the abuse to personal and business voicemail and e-mail, and it's OK for members here to attack dealers in e-mail to AMSOIL corporate.
Sorry Nick - that doesn't work for me.
Andy

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Hi Andy,

I don't fully know how to respond except to note that your post seems to address a lot of pent up hurt feelings from your years here defending Amsoil. I think you've read much into my post that wasn't there and seem to be responding to other issues you consider hanging or unresolved. I am sorry you feel so put upon.

FWIW, I think you give a remarkable effort to stay 'above the fray' more often than not. I guess about all I can say in response is to repeat myself:

We are NOT vendor supported like the vast majority of car enthusiast forum websites. We are unique and diverse and we demand real data. We call out what we think is BS anecdotal "testimonials." That is just the way we are. If you don't like the culture of Tdi Club, there are hundreds of other clubs to go to if you want a vendor-dominated atmosphere where the club serves their commercial interests first...

Last point and I'll step out: I think if you're honest with yourself you MUST admit that it is utterly impossible to claim that anyone can claim to be posting positive testimonials of Amsoil strictly as an enthusiast free of commercial bias. Even if you aren't actively selling, you are (intentionally or subconciously) "feeling the waters" or wading into the sales pool. It is impossible to claim, with any credibility, that you wouldn't jump at the opportunity to sell if people started responding positively to your, ahem, spamming. It is a simple conflict of interest. You can no more claim to be impartial to a topic where you could stand to gain commercially than you can claim to fly with your ears. Surely you can see that?! You are not impartial, ergo anything you post w/r/t something you stand to gain from is tainted. Is this not as plain as day?

The registered vendors here understand this and tread carefully. They rarely make outright product claims. They must adhere to rules. They are held accountable, and that's the way we like it.

Anyway, thank you both to ttthumper and yourself for your civil back-and-forth with me

PS: yes! I'm biased when it comes to Amsoil! LOL. I love their filters and hate their oil.

There is some real data about Amsoil posted on this site, for those who wish to see it. George AVlube just posted some for the Ea0, filter. There is more but I think people tend to see only what they want to see.

Hi Nick,

I appreciate the sane dialog as well. Thanks for your comment about staying above the fray.

I get the impression that you don't like MLM, don't like AMSOIL's oil , figure I've spent time 'defending' a company, and that I'm unable to communicate without an 'ulterior motive'. Close?

I don't come from a sales background - I'm retired USAF. I'm not here to profit, and have no reason to defend a company.

In the "I love the way life works" area, I was listening to a talk last night by Billy Riggs on the magic of attitude. Here's the gist of one of his comments: [One of life's grand illusions comes from the way you choose to look at what happens to you]...it is about the lenses thru which you...choose to view your situation ...[the lenses can] distort reality in such a way that it will cripple you...[other lenses can] provide fresh perspectives that will give your heart wings...they're much like contact lenses. You're very seldom consciously aware that you're wearing a contact lense, and yet every time your eye is open it is at work distorting every bit of information that comes in thru the eye gate. In fact, those of you who are wearing contact lenses, I'd like you to try an experiment with me. I'd like you to try for a moment to look at the lense. I just want to watch. {laughter} Now, you know that you can't look at a contact lense while you're wearing it. The only way to do so is to peel if off your eyeball and hold it at arms length."

Some of the conversations that you've mentioned that are in the black hole were hijacked by people that couldn't distinguish between a sincere attempt to help the membership (or be part of the membership and learn something) and their belief that everything must have an ulterior motive.

The point of the above comment isn't to host a pitty party for anyone singled out and attacked - it's to draw attention to the fact that we allowed people to violate forum rules while attacking others - we blamed the window for breaking instead of the kid that threw the rock! That's really the point of my frustration with comments in this and other threads.

I know it's possible to provide honest, accurate information to this forum without desire for profit, because I know people here doing it (I'm one). I also know people that have quit the forum because the signal to noise ratio wasn't worth their time.

Have a great weekend,
Andy

Nick's Right

Nick,

Contact lenses work both ways. Sorry for the sensitivity. You're right - as are the forum rules listed, and the points Brian made in the beginning of this thread. I've read thru the new vendor rules and see how these fit together.

Vendors are not allowed to use the main forums to sell - there's a forum for that. We are allowed to post in tech areas along with the rest of the membership. And that's a good thing.

I don't have a solution for controlling folks that come into the forums and say what they want to say - on any subject. That's one for the mods and site owner to figure out. Considering the rules that are in place, I think they have.

I hope that new folks will take time to read the rules and search first. I hope that all folks that need to register as vendors do so and follow the new rules they accept. I think it would be cool if all members would read the forum rules - and the vendor rules - so they would know what's allowed by Fred for the entire membership. That should reduce the moderators' workload and could even lead to fewer locked threads.

Andy

Amsoil DEO

Just filled my engine up with 5w40 DEO two days ago. Have been using Amsoil AFL 5w40 for the past 40,000 mile with no problems. Tried motul, didn't like it, too thin looking. Purchased some castrol txt, thicker looking, but not a full synthetic from what ive read. Purchased my '04 pd with 40,000 miles on the clock. I like the Deo much better, car seems to have a bit more of its grunt back. Never abused, just stop and go by my wife for about 56,000 miles. I like the DEO. I will use it from here on out. It specs up thicker than the afl, kinda what the txt reminded me of. The other oils just don't seem to comment too much on the anti soot characteristics. I used the 15w40 hd oil in my '84 mercedes. Then went to the 20w50 oil after i found old maint. records. It ran much better on the heavier oil. Now the jetta seems to run a little better, not that it ever ran bad. We drive heavy diesels at work, no motor will hold up to abuse. And diesels like thick heavy oils, its their nature. Interested in others using the DEO. I do 10,000 oci. Just changed the oil in my tahoe after 25,000 on amsoil. It still runs like new.

Hi, welcome to Fred's! Is this oil on VW's list of approved products for a PD engine

Judging an oil based on looks. What did your UOA numbers look like with AFL, Motul and Castrol TXT?

All diesel oils have anti-soot qualities.

You are doing far too much "seat of the pants" stuff with oil. Numbers, numbers and more numbers are what matter. Quantifiable values. Wear rates, TBN, visco, oil usage, soot, oil and engine health after xyz intervals.

Show us - do some UOAs and let us see it work. Join the UOA databse and post the numbers.

LMAO: oil was "too thin/thick looking" Yeah, right....

I think this oil will perform similar to delvac/TDT in a PD motor. Ash is at .097 too.

Airedale, you should really perform some oil analysis testing to see how the oil is holding up.

No its not on the approved list. I dont buy that bs. I do buy 25,000 on my 5.3l with no problems. No i not doing oil analysis either. And i dont keep my investments in high risk either. Purchase 505.01 if you want, I prefer to keep my money in my account. Also a good oil in vehicles as well.

No oil test Revo, got all the testing i need. Its called my wife. They only know 2 speeds, stop and go.

bup bup bup bup bup

It's been so long since we had a good Amsoil thread... I can't remember whether AFL or DEO is the good stuff.

Oil

AIREDALE said:

No its not on the approved list. I dont buy that bs. I do buy 25,000 on my 5.3l with no problems. No i not doing oil analysis either. And i dont keep my investments in high risk either. Purchase 505.01 if you want, I prefer to keep my money in my account. Also a good oil in vehicles as well.

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Your PD TDI is not an american 5.3L! Pressure are way higher in PD than 5.3L! Goodbye CAM!But your the expert.

TornadoRed said:

It's been so long since we had a good Amsoil thread... I can't remember whether AFL or DEO is the good stuff.

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This appears to be a new 5W40 product which they suggest should align with an API CJ-4 oil.

I've had good luck with DEO in a Duramax. Actually GREAT results. With that said I would not use it in my PD.

Airedale, you really need to get the oil test to run it. Do a 5k mile test.

I doubt you will see great stuff from it prolonged. Comparing your 5.3/ gas motor to the TDI is an Apples to brussle Sprouts comparison.

In all honesty, while we are on the 5.3l subject, Amsoil's 0w30 is a much better oil. ;-)

Not comparing a 5.3l to 1.9l in the oil category. I do like the 5w30 though, and may switch to the 10w30 after 200,000 miles, but i am not comfortable going in the opposite direction.
Yes, the duramax and other similar diesels are different. Not much, although some will argue that. I do wish the DEO was as robust as the 15w40 hd oil. Yes the pressures may be increased on the cam lobe, but that is a design flaw, not an oil flaw. When those pressures get high. Regardless of what spec or number is on a bottle, you want a thicker film of oil that will not allow metal parts to come in contact with each other. Any additive can be added to any oil to make it spec.

My brother and his buddies have been running the 15w40 hd with good success and improved mileage as well. As time moves on further, i will probably move to a 15w40. (Stroke, stroke, stroke, stroke, heart attack, rising blood pressure, stroke.) I do almost all my own maintenance myself, and noticed that i stopped having problems with my vehicles. I dont sit behind a desk and punch numbers. Im usually outside, hot or cold. So i understand the fear of going off the beaten path. Im sure some people are going to have to take another xanax after reading this.

Guess everyone forgets the most damaging part of a motor is start up.
And i am not impressed with the 5w rating of these diesel oils, and neither are our mechanics at work. If you ever want to find out what really works, see what is going on commercially in the business world. We have an entire fleet diesels from powerstrokes to cats and they all run on one weight oil and do it very well considering the abuse they get. 15w40. Of course some people are stroking out right now, but im not. I am lemming that decided "hey, jumping off this cliff might not be the best idea."
And i don't make decisions lightly without vast research.

With the increased cam wear on that lobe, a 15w40 oil would probably bring these motors back to spec. And yes, your cam lobe is wearing out right now even with 505.01.

Hey 2004starwarstdi,

Thanks for pointing out that my tdi is not a 5.3l. I dont think i could have figured that one out on my own. I guess when i park the tahoe next to the jetta, sometimes they both look like domestic vehicles under the sunlight.

Hey milehighassassin, thank you for being a little more cordial, but my brothers and his buddies have been running the 15w40 in their duramaxes with 24-26mpgs and chipped. They do alot of driving.

I used the afl for about 40,000 miles or so, but i wanted something a little more robust. The DEO specs up a little thicker, with a higher running tbn outside of what it is rated. But i was not dissappointed by the AFL either. Right now the weather is cool, but it will hotter than two rats fu$%&*# in a wool sock again. I know some people will change oils as the weather changes, I just prefer to use one.

AIREDALE said:

Not comparing a 5.3l to 1.9l in the oil category. I do like the 5w30 though, and may switch to the 10w30 after 200,000 miles, but i am not comfortable going in the opposite direction.
Yes, the duramax and other similar diesels are different. Not much, although some will argue that. I do wish the DEO was as robust as the 15w40 hd oil. Yes the pressures may be increased on the cam lobe, but that is a design flaw, not an oil flaw. When those pressures get high. Regardless of what spec or number is on a bottle, you want a thicker film of oil that will not allow metal parts to come in contact with each other. Any additive can be added to any oil to make it spec.

My brother and his buddies have been running the 15w40 hd with good success and improved mileage as well. As time moves on further, i will probably move to a 15w40. (Stroke, stroke, stroke, stroke, heart attack, rising blood pressure, stroke.) I do almost all my own maintenance myself, and noticed that i stopped having problems with my vehicles. I dont sit behind a desk and punch numbers. Im usually outside, hot or cold. So i understand the fear of going off the beaten path. Im sure some people are going to have to take another xanax after reading this.

Guess everyone forgets the most damaging part of a motor is start up.
And i am not impressed with the 5w rating of these diesel oils, and neither are our mechanics at work. If you ever want to find out what really works, see what is going on commercially in the business world. We have an entire fleet diesels from powerstrokes to cats and they all run on one weight oil and do it very well considering the abuse they get. 15w40. Of course some people are stroking out right now, but im not. I am lemming that decided "hey, jumping off this cliff might not be the best idea."
And i don't make decisions lightly without vast research.

With the increased cam wear on that lobe, a 15w40 oil would probably bring these motors back to spec. And yes, your cam lobe is wearing out right now even with 505.01.

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Don't take offense to this but, this post above shows how little you know about oil.

I do like the 5w30 though, and may switch to the 10w30 after 200,000 miles,

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What will that do? The running weight of the oil is still 30. The 5w oil just makes it so the oil will be more fluid at startup. Once these oils warm up they are the EXACT same weight.

Guess everyone forgets the most damaging part of a motor is start up.

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Yes it is damaging, and that is why a LOWER startup weight is desired. At startup even in a warm climate almost ALL oil is too thick.

Yes the pressures may be increased on the cam lobe, but that is a design flaw, not an oil flaw. When those pressures get high. Regardless of what spec or number is on a bottle, you want a thicker film of oil that will not allow metal parts to come in contact with each other. Any additive can be added to any oil to make it spec.

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Like it or not, it is the hand we were given (those that have the PD). Specific oils are going to be a thing of the future. Thicker does not mean better. Too thick and it won't be able to coat properly.

Too thick of oil is generally the problem for most motors, not too thin.

And no you cannot just add oil additive to ANY oil and make it spec.

AIREDALE said:

Hey milehighassassin, thank you for being a little more cordial, but my brothers and his buddies have been running the 15w40 in their duramaxes with 24-26mpgs and chipped. They do alot of driving.

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My father is running 15w40 Amsoil in his Duramax as well. I only wish my UOA's looked as good as his do. I think you are exagerating those MPG numbers a touch. 24 is doable in the Duramax, but 26 is certainly pushing it. I know it is 2 MPG difference, but that is roughly 10% increase.

I am not saying 100% you cannot use this oil but you saying X oil looks too thin, Y oil looks just perfect is both crazy and stupid. You are clearly spending money on oils, now spend $20 and get them tested. Your expensive motor will appreciate it.

No, I didn't base my oil judgement on whether the oil appeared thinner or thicker to the eye. Its on the oil spec sheet. I was meerly commenting on how thin the oil looked compared to another.

And no i did not believe the mileage numbers either, because men always lie about two things 1)fuel mileage and 2)peeter length.

So went with him on fill up, and crunched the numbers a couple of times. He was right. 26. He deleted his egr components and had the setting on his chip to 5. Which increases boost, without lack of hotter intake temps due to lack of egr deletion.

But overall, they have been running the 15w40 successfully. I dont think i would use the DEO in the motor with 15w oil readily available.

Didnt think people would get so upset over a statement. "I put a non-approved vw 505.01 oil in my car." Guess i better not tell them I put Amsoil in the transmission either.

Oop, did I say that out loud. Darn learning disorders.

airedale, the oil nerds will ardently insist you are going to die a slow painful death if you dont use 505.01. I agree its a design flaw, but these cars still need a solid oil. Old ALH motors have cam/lifter failures often too, and PDs fail with strict 505.01 usage... why do you think they have an updated lifter/follower or whatever?

Id bet DEO can match or better 505.01 performance. Delvac usually always does, im sure DEO can perform decently. Airedale, do analysis and prove everyone wrong if it makes you happy.

Very few failures on PD engines with less than 150hp. This was a version not exported to NA. Its failures appear to be a special case. Other PD engines have a reputation for durability in Europe, so long as the correct oils are used.

I am also not saying he can't run the oil, but he should get it tested, and it is MUST if he is dreaming about running it for 25k miles. AireDale, if you read closely EVEN AMSOIL (which I love and do sell myself) says to get that much life out of the oil, it must be tested.