Motive brake fluid change (caution 3MB of pics)

JoeBleed

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Mar 29, 2005
Location
Macclesfield, NC, USA
TDI
Jetta, 2005 A4, Reflex Silver
Since i am going to be doing this in a week or two for my 50k maint. and it has been 2 years now, i have a question.

Why did you have to refill the resavore?

I thought the fluid was supose to be pored into the Motive presure bleeder tank and then pumped into the resavore through the whole process. Unless you meant the Motive tank.

This does also displace/replace the fluid in the ABS pump with out running an output test on the pump to move fluid through it, correct?

Thanks.
 

MikeS_18

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Feb 18, 2005
Location
Bow, NH
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'03 Jetta Wagon, '13 Passat SE, '64 Ford Econoline
Some people like to first drain the reservoir with a baster, and then fill it with the new fluid and use the Motive to push the new fliud into the system. This prevents them from getting their motive all messy. So they have to fill, push out, re-fill, push out, etc. A little more work, dangerous if you don't pay attention to the reservoir levels.
 

scottab

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May 25, 2006
Location
Windsor, VA
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2005 Golf TDI
I did the exact same procedure this afternoon on my 2005 A4 Golf TDI. I have 68,000 miles on it and wanted to use the Motive power bleeder to ensure all are was removed from the system (I introduced air inadvertently at the 40,000 mile flush). This removed all air from the system.

A note to all, to not attempt brake system flushes without a power bleeder. If you flush the brake system using the old school method (manually pumping the pedal) you will damage the o-rings/seals on the master cylinder due to pressing the brake pedal beyond the limit where the brake pedal normally travels during daily operation. This allows the o-rings/seals to be damaged by the sludge build-up beyond where the master cylinder piston normally travels, scoring the o-rings/seals and allowing brake fluid to leak by in the master cylinder.

This will cause that sinking feeling (pedal slowly drops to the floor) as you apply gentle pressure to the brake pedal.
This mistake will cost you about $250.00 to fix.
 

ted_b

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Feb 4, 2002
Location
Vancouver WA, USA
TDI
2002 Jetta tdi, 5spd
Reservior cap options?

Hey all,

I'm putting together a "budget motive" pressure bleeder, and have it all assembled except one part: the reservior cap.

Anyone have any ideas for a cap that will fit & seal acceptably? So far, I've spent about $15 building this thing, and it holds pressure nicely to 20psi.
 

BuffaloDiesel

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Jan 12, 2005
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Buffalo, New York
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2001.5 Green Jetta
ted_b said:
Hey all,

I'm putting together a "budget motive" pressure bleeder, and have it all assembled except one part: the reservior cap.

Anyone have any ideas for a cap that will fit & seal acceptably? So far, I've spent about $15 building this thing, and it holds pressure nicely to 20psi.
Ted, did you see this link? It says you can use a GM cap.

http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm
 

Rioja Cupra

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Oct 3, 2007
Location
Spain
TDI
2007 Ibiza Cupra 1.9 PD
Just read through this long (and old) thread.

A question which I don't think was answered: -
When bleeding by the old method with two people (rather than with a pressure bleeder) close the bleed screw as the pedal as it is on the way down (the same applies if it is clutch or brake).

There is a risk, on some vehicles and I'm talking in general here, that if the brake pedal is pushed all the way to the floor you can break the support for the diaphragm in the brake servo.
Just put something about 2" thick under the brake pedal and you should be safe.
I do not know of this problem on VWs but just in case...

James
 

Rioja Cupra

Member
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Oct 3, 2007
Location
Spain
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2007 Ibiza Cupra 1.9 PD
Another thought.
If your car has a plastic reservoir with a 45mm (plastic?) cap at 15psi that is nearly 37 pounds of force trying to blow the cap off a plastic bottle.
At 20psi that is over 49 pounds of force. :eek:

This coupled with the fact that the bleeder contains a fluid that will do serious harm to your paintwork.....

I suggest that you pressure test the system before filling the bleeder with fluid.

I didn't once and ended up covered in brake fluid. Fortunately I was changing from the normal stuff to silicone fluid, so no harm done apart from the loss of $$.

James
 

ymz

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2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
Actually, for the Motive pressure bleeders most around here use, it's recommended to never exceed 14 PSI... 10 is quite sufficient...

Yuri.
 

JoeBleed

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Macclesfield, NC, USA
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Jetta, 2005 A4, Reflex Silver
Agree with 10psi being plenty. used my motive bleeder on a friends volvo at 15psi i think we busted some seals in the master cylender. needless to say we had to replace his master cylender because the rear seal was now leaking into the booster. fortunatly he had a spare. Granted this was a mid 80s volvo with orginal master cylender, but with 10 psi on the other one it bearly lost any presure while re bleading.

When i get to changing my brake fluid, i will keep it to 10 or less psi. Granted mine is only a couple years old, but better safe than walking. :)
 

VDUBS

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Rockville, MD, USA
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2004 Golf GLS PD
GOOD STUFF!

Some one mentioned that the clutch might have side effects from the ATE blue fluid, anyone have anymore info on this?
 

poor1

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May 3, 2003
Location
UK
TDI
MK4
The new fluid hoes inside the Motive Power container whereby if you put enough in you will not have to do any topping up during the whole operation.
 

ymz

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Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
poor1 said:
The new fluid hoes inside the Motive Power container whereby if you put enough in you will not have to do any topping up during the whole operation.
Many find that this makes the whole operation too messy (after you're finished)... Much easier is to top up the brake fluid container after each caliper or pair of calipers...

To each his own...

Yuri.
 

diesel-dave

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earth
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2003 wagon TDI, 2003 wagon Tdi, 2013 Q7 Tdi
Gewilli thats a great question. I bought the same tool and am planning to flush the brakes with ATE super blue>I like to know before hand.
 

diesel-dave

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you don't need the vag com to power the abs pump while flushing or bleeding the lines in a MK4?
 

ymz

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2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
diesel-dave said:
you don't need the vag com to power the abs pump while flushing or bleeding the lines in a MK4?
Only if air has gotten into the system...

If you're just flushing the system and make sure to always have enough fluid in the reservoir, it's not really needed...

Yuri.
 

diesel-dave

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oh one more thing, how many liters to flush the lines don't want to be short
 

ymz

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In principle, one liter should do, at least the way most people do it...

However, MOGolf - certainly one of the most respected Gurus here - says that you should run about 1/2 liter through each caliper for a complete flush...

Yuri.
 

waywardsmile

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Location
NJ
TDI
00 Golf GLS
has anyone used a mityvac 7201 for a fluid change? it seems the kit mityvac offers hooks up to the bleed screws and sucks out the fluid, while the motive pushes it out through the mastercylinder? is there any advantage to one over the other? the 7201 can pressurize as well so i was looking at using it in similar to the motive.
 

ymz

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Between Toronto & Montreal
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2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
When you use a vacuum device, you will likely get some air leaking in around the loosened bleeder valves, thereby nterfering with the procedure...

A pressurised system is better - as long as you pay attention to never running out of fluid in the reservoir...

Yuri.
 

waywardsmile

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Location
NJ
TDI
00 Golf GLS
ymz said:
When you use a vacuum device, you will likely get some air leaking in around the loosened bleeder valves, thereby nterfering with the procedure...

A pressurised system is better - as long as you pay attention to never running out of fluid in the reservoir...

Yuri.
yeah, i'm looking to use the mityvac 7201 to pressurize but was wondering how to hook it up to the master cylinder.

could i use the motive european adapter seen here: http://www.motiveproducts.com/03adapters.html ?
or is it possible to build a cap like seen here for less: http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm ?
 

Hookey

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Aug 14, 2006
Location
Warsaw, Indiana
TDI
2005 Beetle
Pela

I tried it myself tonight with little success. To many leaks in the system I think, i.e. around the bleed valve / Pela hose connection, around the bleed valve threads themselves, probably at the interface of the Pela container and the hose. All I know is it moved very little fluid.

Thought I might get double duty out of a tool:(
 

oriley

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Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Location
Jamestown, PA
TDI
'02 black Golf
Brake peddle clicking

I must say, it was a rather easy method following the instructions for bleeding the fluid. I purchased the Motive bleeder, and did the change with out taking the wheels off.

Although, I have noticed and now my wife is noticing the brake peddle clicks when depressed....(The vehicle is a automatic)...NO it is not the solenoid in the N-R-D selector. That is a distinctive sounds in that specific area.
This clicking is at the brake pedal and you can feel it almost like a cable is snapping loose.

Any ideas what this could be from?
I made sure to drain enough fluid out of each brake till it was bright blue, and am very confident that I did not intorduce any air into the system as the brake pedal is not "squishy".

I have noticed it mainly happening at start-up, not so much while driving.

Thanks in advance for the advice.
Patrick
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
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May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
you may want to post in a different thread (or start new one if nothing is appropriate), most of us have been looking at this thread so long we ignore it. Are you up to date on the brake light switch recall? maybe the dealer hosed something up.
 
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