Hissing/leaking EGR cooler fixed!

So here is the new part from VW. Do I need any kind of gasket sealer on the two gaskets?

mainjet said:

Did anyone add coolant to the vehicle before the smell developed?

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Hey Mainjet, Nope there wasn't any antifreeze addition to the coolant system as of recent. I have a place in the mountains with an 8,500' elevation. During our stay over Christmas the TDI was parked outside and with temps close to zero F my DSG equipped TDI struggles to start - if for no other reason than a frozen DSG fluid (slows RPM just enough) and the thin air density at altitude. Anyway... one morning while struggling to start the MFD display threw a "coolant" warning. The TDI eventualy started with the "coolant" warning going out. A clear MFD display and a check of the engine bay showed no sign of antifreeze. The coolant overflow tank level was right where it always is - OK.

Two days later the TDI when driven would exhibit a strong smell of antifreeze in the interior, no oily smear on the windshield, only the smell of glycol. I turned off/on the dual temp/climatronic arrangement with no observed change or degree of smell. There was no visual sign of antifreeze, only a strong odor. Leaving the TDI with the Denver VW dealer I thought was the safe thing to do as the next days roadtrip was 1500 miles; Vail to Atlanta.

Now the VW dealership say's the smell of antifreeze is present however a pressure test indicates no sign of leakage. What to do? That's when I asked to have the two molded H2O hoses from the EGR cooler to heater core R&R. I'd heard of pin prick holes developing in these hoses.

Any thoughts? The VW USA tech line when asked had no instruction for the VW dealership tech. "return the vehicle to the customer" Yes but, but the smell/odor of glycol? "Return the vehicle".

As we live in both States leaving the TDI in Colorado isn't the end of the world - the plan is to return the TDI to Georgia after the March - spring skiing trip. Yeah,,, the kids will fly as Dad get's the dirty work of driving the TDI. Road Trip...........with a new AAA membership.

Theres gaskets on those flanges, I replace the crummy stock hose clamps with some worm drives, Need some G12 to replace antifreeze, need some hose crimpers so you dont have to drain the coolant completely.

I pull the return line from the turbo.

Get it off the ground as much as possible, cause you will be working from the back of the engine. I like my lift..

Its a pretty piece of $300 metal, if you keep the car, you will do it again..

Good luck with it..

Thanks Mach1. Yea the first one lasted 138,000 and 4 years so I just went ahead and got the part because I need to get it fixed. I am not completely comfortable with the making of the bushing. Not because I can't make it at work but more because I am not totally convinced of it's long term fix. It may work just fine but I needed to go ahead and get this one fixed so I can move on to putting head Gaskets on my truck.

It is a pretty piece so that makes me feel better LOL. But by the time I take it off then make the new bushing and then put it all back on, I am just fooling myself that it didn't cost me $300.00. Time is money.

I have the hose crimpers and the G12. My lift is called a jack and two jack stands

Thanks for the procedure.

1998993C2S (did I get that right?LOL)

I am certainly not the best guy to ask. I am only offering my opinion so please don't put much weight on anything that I say. There are some really knowledgable members on here that I am sure could give you some great suggestions as to what to look for. Not to mention that the dealer has the car and cannot find anything either.

I think that you did the right things. If they smelled coolant before they replaced the heater hoses then maybe they fixed it. Although the pressure test didn't find anything. So that would seem to say that there was not a leak in the hose.

Are you smelling it in the cabin but not really outside the car? No obvious coolant level change and no coolant on the ground? It kind of baffles me too that there is no coolant leakage showing anywhere. I am sure that they would have checked all the hoses and they replaced the heater hoses. To change the heater hoses they would have had to remove the plastic undercar cover. So if there was no coolant there either I can see why they are saying return it.

I am not really helping here but just trying to think through it with you.

I guess I would be sure that it is all documented with the dealership. Then I would question them a little bit more to see if they saw any signs of coolant having leaked on the back of the engine or around any of the hoses. At that point I guess I would take the car back and when driving it I would keep a good eye on the temp gauge and watch the coolant level carefully. See if the smell goes away now that the hoses have been changed.

The last thing I guess I would ask them is if they will remove the upper timing belt cover and look down in there toward the water pump to see if it looks wet anywhere around that side of the engine by the water pump. I think that you can probably see down enough to see if it damp there without removing the lower timing belt cover but I can't remember.

If all that checks out I would take the car back from the dealer and just see if you get any more symptoms.

Sorry I can't be of any real help. These things can be very frustrating. Good luck. OH, and I am having a hard time feeling sorry for a guy that has to split his time between Vail and Atlanta You should try living in Indiana

In regards to the outer dimension of the bushing piece. I measure it at 17.48 mm. It hard to measure with the shaft in place but I believe I got it correct.

Hey mainjet - thanks for your input. I'll phone the VW Denver guy's today and learn what work has been completed. I'll ask the Tech to remove the timming belt cover having a look see...

Let's hope Murphy's Law doesn't sneak up during on the road trip to Georgia. I may have to stop at fellow forum member Oilhammers shop in St. Louie on the way for a wee bit of expert advice.

And you're right, Vail sucks......LoL.

I would say that a trip to oilhammers garage would not do a bit of harm. It will rank up there with Mount Rushmore or the Grand Canyon

Seriously, I think that if you could get by there that would be a great idea. Having the car looked over by oilhammer can only bring piece of mind which I believe is exactly what you are looking for right now.

Good luck.

1998993C2S said:

Hey mainjet - thanks for your input. I'll phone the VW Denver guy's today and learn what work has been completed. I'll ask the Tech to remove the timming belt cover having a look see...

Let's hope Murphy's Law doesn't sneak up during on the road trip to Georgia. I may have to stop at fellow forum member Oilhammers shop in St. Louie on the way for a wee bit of expert advice.

And you're right, Vail sucks......LoL.

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Did you ever get the car up to proper temperature after the problem started? I am justed wondering about the water pump and wondering if it is circulating.

Is this the original water pump in the car?

Yes, the TDIs water pump is the original, additionally I'm the original owner and at present the mileage is 72k mi just shy of the 80k service. I've handled most of the cars historic service; oil changes, filters, brakes, etc., and own a VagCom. Its in the cars trunk as we speak.
(Isn't the water pump often replaced when servicing the cam belt at 80k mi?)
After the initial smell of antifreeze we drove the 100 mi trek down to Denver. Throughout the following day the antifreeze smell persisited, it was this constancy which drove the decision to ditch the TDI at a Denver VW dealer. All the while not a sign of antifreeze leakage and no oily film on the windshield. Go figure.

Called Emich VW in Denver today without speaking to the Tech, I'll try again on Saturday.

I know that the water pump replacement when doing the timing belt is highly recommended. The belt runs the pump so if the pump goes out later you have to basically do the whole timing belt thing again to change the water pump. Also, the water pumps on these cars are not great. From memory I think that they become iffy after 100K but someone more knowledgeable on here like oilhammer could tell you best on that.

I do not know if the dealer includes the water pump in their timing belt change price. When I did the timing belt on my car I changed the water pump as suggested.

My question on the water pump was because of the cold weather and the car working to start. I was just wondering if the impeller could have broken or the seal blow. But since you have drove the car all that way and it cooled properly then I would say that is not the case. It's appearently something that happened while you were trying to start it but quit right away and there is not leaking.

I guess the only other thing they can do is check the oil for coolant and the coolant for oil.

mainjet said:

I know that the water pump replacement when doing the timing belt is highly recommended.

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Man,,, as the owner of a MY87 944 which served as a dailey driver for 10yr/100k miles,, do I know the "better do the w/pump" whilst servicing the cam belts, followers, etc. Yeap every 30k miles was the cam belt R&R on those 944 chassis Porsches. IIRC, this service started out as a $1000.00 job in the early years, at the end about $2 grand. Dam inflation. (the motor had a Valves vs Piston issue - KaBoom should the Cam Belt fail)

I plan to keep the TDI (my DD car) until the wheels fall off so I best get hooked up with an excellent wrench for the V'dub. Oilhammer your phones ringing! (Using language like the southern guy from the 30Rock TV show) "My Daddy always said, you can easily pay for mediocure/crummy service as you can for expert service. The trick is learning to spot the difference" Smart guy my Dad, Old geasser!

Oilhammer you've got mail.

This is an awesome thread. I've been living with that darn leak/hiss for 20,000 miles. If anyone ever posts the the dimensions of the bushing, I will have one made as well and change. Seems like a waste of $300+ (plus labor) to change out the entire cooler for a leaky bushing. I guess an alternative (for me) is to block and vag-com. I've yet to meet anyone in central Kansas I trust with a vag-com. Maybe a vag-com is an opportunity for a birthday present.

The dimensions and drawing have been posted and I measured the outer diameter at 17.48 mm, that was the dimension that was in question.

Remember that the bushing is not the only thing you have to do. You will have to remove the cooler and grind the connection for the flapper rod so you can disassemble it. Then you will have to install the bushing and weld the connection back together before replacing the cooler in the car.

Mod done - now high pitched whine?

Ok well I did the mod.

Had someone machine the part for me on a lathe. It was a real PITA to get the EGR cooler out.

I got everything put back together, now my issue is I have a high pitched whine under acceleration.

Anybody know what this could be?

Thanks,

Rich

Would this be considered an Emissions failure? Might it be covered under the federal guidelines?
What is the part number for this part, where is the cheapest place to get them?

Coolant disappearing? No external leaks noted?

My dealer is seeing this on TDI's @ around 70K.

The fix has been egr cooler, it's leaking internally.

The bushing is a good idea, but, I think it's only a matter of time before you have to replace the cooler anyway.

R & R it once, unless you really want the practice!

Rich, exhaust leak, either at the shaft, or at one of the flanges..Yeah, they are fun to remove..I usually will try 'feeling' around the parts for a heat/pressure feel. Good luck with it.

mjwhoopie said:

R & R it once, unless you really want the practice!

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I'll come by next week and you can practice on mine

I would get under there while the car is running and see if the flapper seems to be moving properly. I would guess that if the space between the bushing and where the shaft goes through is just right, you could cause a whistle noise.

If the space is large like when the oem bushing goes out, you get a hissing exhaust sound. But if you close it up tighter, but not just right, you could cause it to whistle or whine when it actuates.

Also, feel around where the shaft goes into the vacuum bulb.

Did you get the sleeve on the tail pipe positioned and tightened back properly?

This is why I decided to just buy the oem part after looking over the situation. Then, once I finished the job, I was REALLY glad I just bought the part.

Had I gone through that PITA job and then had problems with it when I was done - there would have been some tools flyin'! haha

I feel for ya man. I have been having one problem after another with my two cars. It seems like as soon as I get one fixed the other has something go out. This cycle has been repeating itself for a little while now.

mainjet said:

This is why I decided to just buy the oem part after looking over the situation. Then, once I finished the job, I was REALLY glad I just bought the part.

Had I gone through that PITA job and then had problems with it when I was done - there would have been some tools flyin'! haha

I feel for ya man. I have been having one problem after another with my two cars. It seems like as soon as I get one fixed the other has something go out. This cycle has been repeating itself for a little while now.

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It sounds like a lot less work to slip some block off plates in there and have it tuned out and clamp off the coolant lines, but I haven't even been able to get in there and SEE the damn thing.

Mach1

Looks like I somehow didn't tighten the flange that is against the block very well. The top nut wasn't snug. I think it's because the metal gasket got caught on one of the threads. All is good now.

And the bushing worked great! This forum is awesome.

Rich, good deal sounds like you got it now, it is very easy to get something not quite perfect and then have a leak..Its tough working in there and I do them on my lift, its very comfortable standing then laying. May even want to go back after a couple of heat cycles and wrench everything over again to make sure they stay snug..

Philip..you got the right ideas!!

Mainjet, that clearance is very critical, and depending on the material used the clearance is going to be different, and then you have to take expansion rates into account, too many variables for me..

Rich, I'm going to do the mod on mine now. I'm glad you got yours fixed and War Damn Eagle brother!

double rl said:

Rich, I'm going to do the mod on mine now. I'm glad you got yours fixed and War Damn Eagle brother!

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double rl - good luck with the mod. Mach1 is lucky enough to have a lift. I did mine with the car on ramps and I hurt for 3 days. You will use explicative words in the process, but well worth it in the end. I honestly think doing the single mass flywheel was easier than doing this.

WDE!!

man, there used to be a DIY auto shop here in town that rented lift bays for a few bucks an hour, but they went out of business.

If one can live with the noise is there any huge problem with this situation? I wanted to wait til summer to do this repair. Will I harm my engine? Will I experience any performance issues?

dougsbug said:

If one can live with the noise is there any huge problem with this situation? I wanted to wait til summer to do this repair. Will I harm my engine? Will I experience any performance issues?

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It just gets soot inside the engine compartment and I had horrible fumes coming in through the AC vents. Other than that, I don't believe you will cause any harm to the engine.

Do I have to completely remove the shaft and butterfly for this fix? Don't see how to get the butterfly off the shaft