Steering Rack

Took the wagon in to have the alignment checked at the local Firestone Complete Auto Care. Previously paid them for a lifetime alignment. Anyway, they say I need 1 inner tie rod on the driver side and a rebuilt steering rack because fluid is leaking. Their price is about $1000.

Now, I really have no faith in Firestone since I purchased a set of Firestone 500 radial tires many, many years ago.

So I am asking how does one know the steering rack needs to be replaced? I can see the inner tie rod on the drivers side needs to be replaced, but is this really a job that requires a rebuilt steering rack?

Thanks for your input.

Only needs a rebuild if it's leaking, the tie bars are fairly straight forward unbolt bolt on things anyway. If you're losing fluid it'll be most likely gathering in the rack boots.

I bought a MB that had been serviced at Firestone. They did a trans flush and some other odds n ends.

After I bought it I called them about the trans service to see what that service entailed. They said they reverse flushed the trans and that was it. I asked about whether they replaced the filter and he said no, it just has a screen in there to which I replied oh really...perhaps you ought to drop the pan and check that before making that claim since there's a filter inside there that needs to be replaced.

I thanked them for back-flushing all the crud from the pan back into the transmission.

I won't go there, it's a joke.

Steve

If its leaking fluid, it needs rebuilt. I wouldn't pay them to do the job though. Just put a rebuilt one in, and then take it back for an alignment.

I've used our lifetime alignment 3 times. Will go back once I do wheel bearings again.

OK, the rack does leak and it needs to be rebuilt.

Where is the best place to get a properly rebuilt rack?

How do I tell if it is TRW or ZF rack?

Which steering rack goes with the "plus suspension" since I have the VR6 big brakes?

Thanks,

Replace it with whatever rack you have now. The TRW is steel and the ZF is finned aluminum. The TDI came with the TRW stock but the plus suspension from the GLX had the ZF.

Abacus said:

Replace it with whatever rack you have now. The TRW is steel and the ZF is finned aluminum. The TDI came with the TRW stock but the plus suspension from the GLX had the ZF.

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Looks like I have the TRW rack now, but should change to the ZF rack since I did the 5 lug conversion. Need to do more checking on that.

But where to buy a new rack or a rebuilt rack. Really want to avoid C.R.A.P. Does that simply leave me with a new VW rack for my only source? I would "think" there has to be a decent rebuilder in Southern California.

Do a search on here, I have seen where some people bought reliable rebuilds much cheaper than new.

If you change to the ZF, I'm not sure if the hose connections/sizes are the same but know the inner tie rods are definitely different lengths, so those will need changing.

I know TDIDaveNH would probably know the difference from when he did his GLX swap since he had everything apart and side by side.

New racks are NLA from VW per my local dealer parts dept.

That leaves me a couple of new ones priced at $180/200. But those are likely C.R.A.P. Even with a 36 month warranty, not sure I want one. The good thing with even the C.R.A.P. new one, no core charge.

So to find a "good" rebuilder and that really comes down to warranty because every rebuilder has some issues now and then. Carsteering.com offers a rebuilt ZF style rack for 195 +50 core charge or a new ZF style for $200 and no core charge. Same warranty on both - 36 months.
Have to wonder about the source for the rebuilt core units - it would be terrible to find the "rebuilt" unit had a C.R.A.P. core and not a real ZF core.

Place on ebay called Detroit Axle-they have a reman for $159.79(includes $10 core charge)-only thing I saw in their listing that I didn't like was that it said "for TRW or ZF style" in listing,so I guess if you bought one you'd have to compare the tie rods.....

You could source an OEM rack and send it out to have it rebuilt. They seem like a simple design.

Abacus said:

You could source an OEM rack and send it out to have it rebuilt. They seem like a simple design.

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Since I have done a partial upgrade to the "plus suspension" with my 5 lug conversion, I should replace the current TRW rack (stock on TDI) with the ZF rack that is stock on the "plus suspension.

A Google search for steering rack rebuilders in San Diego brings up one of the on line suppliers that sells both rebuilt ZF rack for $200 and the new rack that I presume is C.R.A.P. Their corporate office is in the Miramar area. So I will give them a call on Monday. Also found a local rebuilder and I will speak with them on Monday also.

Last week I found a B4 wagon VR6 in the pick a part yard, so that could be a source for a core to get rebuilt. I wanted to grab a few other parts off the same car tomorrow anyway. Just need to figure out what tools I need to take to the yard.

I have been told (not verified) that the ZF rack takes less turns lock to lock versus the TRW.

When you say you did a partial conversion to 5x100 what exactly didn't get replaced that was proprietary to the Plus suspension? I was under the impression that nothing between the two (down at the sub frame) was shared between the two versions (maybe sway bar?). I was also under the impression that the inner tie rods for ZF were longer.

Steve

The inners are longer, see the pics I posted above.

Steve,
Here is a pretty good summary of the differences between the plus suspension and the base suspension:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/4-lug-to-5-lug-hub-conversion-on-the-mk3-tdi/

Take a look near the bottom of the page under the Notes section.

Everything I have read on the TDI forums confirms a different rack for the V6 (ZF) compared to the 4 cylinders (TRW). Have not found a reason why.

When I did the 5 lug conversion Matt-98AHU told me about the different rack, but said I should be fine without changing the rack. So now I probably should pull a rack from a VR6 since I have to replace the rack anyway.

Steve Addy said:

I have been told (not verified) that the ZF rack takes less turns lock to lock versus the TRW.

When you say you did a partial conversion to 5x100 what exactly didn't get replaced that was proprietary to the Plus suspension? I was under the impression that nothing between the two (down at the sub frame) was shared between the two versions (maybe sway bar?). I was also under the impression that the inner tie rods for ZF were longer.

Steve

Click to expand...

john.jackson9213 said:

Steve,
Here is a pretty good summary of the differences between the plus suspension and the base suspension:

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/4-lug-to-5-lug-hub-conversion-on-the-mk3-tdi/

Take a look near the bottom of the page under the Notes section.

Everything I have read on the TDI forums confirms a different rack for the V6 (ZF) compared to the 4 cylinders (TRW). Have not found a reason why.

When I did the 5 lug conversion Matt-98AHU told me about the different rack, but said I should be fine without changing the rack. So now I probably should pull a rack from a VR6 since I have to replace the rack anyway.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I read through that, there are some minor errors in that text but overall it's pretty good. I don't understand why they would recommend swapping a complete rear beam axle when the only difference is the rear rotor/hub.

Also, I can't say for certain but on Mk3 it used to be that you couldn't use inner tie rods for a ZF on a TRW rack and vice versa. I think the inners need to be for that specific rack.

I'm guessing that you have full Plus suspension but with a TRW steering rack, which in my mind isn't part of suspension, it's part of steering.

If you spend some time in the parts catalog you end up figuring out that there many different racks used depending on model. Some racks are the same between B3/4 and Mk3, some aren't, and ZF wasn't exclusive to VR powered cars, my 94 Golf 2.0 had a ZF rack in it.

Since you need to replace yours it wouldn't hurt to get the ZF, then again since you're already setup to use the TRW that's the choice with the least amount of disruption.

Steve

Would anyone know if the hose connections/sizes on the ZF are the same as the TRW?

gfnetadmin said:

Would anyone know if the hose connections/sizes on the ZF are the same as the TRW?

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The parts catalog doesn't differentiate between TRW and ZF on the hoses / pipes so the hoses from one should work with the other.

Steve

Found a local rebuilder for the steering rack. $375 to rebuild my TRW rack, including labor to remove and replace the rack with a 5 year guarantee. And if I source my own ZF rack, he will knock $30 off the price. He answered a couple of questions I had about removing the ZF rack at the junk yard. Also confirmed the only real difference between TRW and ZF are the tie rod ends as in TDIDave's picture. His price just to rebuild the rack was $220 with the extra $155 for the remove and replace labor. Best part is the 5 year local guarantee! This sounds like a great deal to me.

john.jackson9213 said:

Found a local rebuilder for the steering rack. $375 to rebuild my TRW rack, including labor to remove and replace the rack with a 5 year guarantee. And if I source my own ZF rack, he will knock $30 off the price. He answered a couple of questions I had about removing the ZF rack at the junk yard. Also confirmed the only real difference between TRW and ZF are the tie rod ends as in TDIDave's picture. His price just to rebuild the rack was $220 with the extra $155 for the remove and replace labor. Best part is the 5 year local guarantee! This sounds like a great deal to me.

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That sounds like a good deal, a local rebuilding and warranting for 5 years is excellent.

Steve

The ZF rack has a bit quicker steering ratio.

ZF - 16.4:1, 3.14 turns lock to lock
TRW - 17.5:1, 3.33 turns lock to lock

So I should get the steering box along with the ZF steering rack. Thanks, Chris.

I should qualify my comment.

Steering ratio spec is for the whole system and involves both the rack and the spindles' steering arms. The gearing of the ZF rack may be different than the TRW, but the difference in steering ratio may instead be a result of the GLX spindle steering arms, if they are shorter than TDI arms. I don't know which element is different.

john.jackson9213 said:

So I should get the steering box along with the ZF steering rack. Thanks, Chris.

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There's no box really, it's just the rack, pump and the lines. The lines and pump are consistent between both racks so other than the rack and some tie rod assemblies there's nothing more you'll really need.

Steve

Failed to get the ZF rack after 3 different tries. Needed an 18mm deep socket and did not have one in the tool kit. So I left the rack at the salvage yard.
So Friday I had the TRW steering rack rebuilt and Saturday got a front end alignment.