www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 22nd, 2019, 16:14   #1
JettaTDIBlack
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Brandon, FL
Fuel Economy: 38.88mpg/City Not tested, yet/Highway
Default Poor man's cam seal replacement

Is there a way to replace the cam seal without the cam lock and timing belt tools?

I don't know anyone locally that has the necessary tools and I have $1.50 to my name.

dubrs.com
JettaTDIBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2019, 18:49   #2
Genesis
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Niceville, FL
Fuel Economy: 53/48/42
Default

Not without severe risk.

You have to remove the cam pulley. It's not keyed. There's no possible way to put it back on in the EXACT correct location without those tools.
Genesis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2019, 19:22   #3
[486]
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: St.Paul, MN
TDI(s): 02 golf ALH
Fuel Economy: 42 stock, 47-49 now
Default

you don't need any actual tools to do the job, just set the injection pump by eye, set the flywheel on TDC and then to lock the camshaft take the valve cover, vacuum pump and the rear cam cap off. You'll notice that the slot in the cam is parallel to the top of the cylinder head. My cam lock is a piece of 3/16" flat bar stock, but I have used a flat file or the shank of a screwdriver in the past. Just anything that fits in there snug and is flat.

Use a vise grip on the camshaft between the lobes to counterhold while torquing the cam pulley back on.
[486] is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2019, 19:36   #4
Genesis
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Niceville, FL
Fuel Economy: 53/48/42
Default

Please don't do that.

If you don't have the tools and can't find someone with them then:

1. A drill bit will work for the pump lock.

2. The crank doesn't have to be locked (although a flat screwdriver jammed in the bellhousing against the flywheel works quite well), but you DO have to make sure the engine is at TDC both when you take it apart and when you're done, BEFORE you rotate the engine.

3. You DO need to pop the cam sprocket off, and you NEED a gear puller or similar to do it. A tool made for that is better, but a gear puller will work IF you're careful and use it near the hub. Autozone loans them.

4. You DO need to relieve the tension on the belt at the tensioner and you DO need a means to rotate the tensioner (e.g. a pin-spanner tool or similar) to re-set it once the cam sprocket is back on. You also need to loosen the three IP bolts so when you reset the tensioner you do not side-load the belt's nubs on either the cam or IP sprocket. That's IMPORTANT.

5. As noted anything flat that will fit will work for the cam lock BUT it's VERY IMPORTANT that the slot be EXACTLY true to the flats on the head and it's also VERY important that whatever you use is NOT used for a counterhold -- you WILL break the tail end of the cam. The error margin on the crank and cam is SEVEN DEGREES of crank rotation. More than that and you hit valves, but MUCH less than that and you will have performance problems. You only have a ~1-2 degree window before things go downhill in terms of how the engine runs; it's that tight.

You can counterhold the sprocket on its webs when re-torquing the bolt with vice-grips or similar -- the torque spec is NOT very high. The nose of the cam and the sprocket MUST BE COMPLETELY CLEAN AND FREE OF OIL AND CONTAMINANTS when you put it back together. If they're not the sprocket can slip down the road and over-torquing the bolt can break the nose. Clean the taper on both sprocket and cam nose REAL WELL. Note that for this specific bolt (and the cam cap, if you remove it to do the seal) it's VERY IMPORTANT that you use a torque wrench. That's NOT optional.

Hint: It's MUCH easier to replace the seal if you unbolt the front cam journal cap. You're welcome.
Genesis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2019, 19:42   #5
JettaTDIBlack
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Brandon, FL
Fuel Economy: 38.88mpg/City Not tested, yet/Highway
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Please don't do that.

If you don't have the tools and can't find someone with them then:

1. A drill bit will work for the pump lock.

2. The crank doesn't have to be locked (although a flat screwdriver jammed in the bellhousing against the flywheel works quite well), but you DO have to make sure the engine is at TDC both when you take it apart and when you're done, BEFORE you rotate the engine.

3. You DO need to pop the cam sprocket off, and you NEED a gear puller or similar to do it. A tool made for that is better, but a gear puller will work IF you're careful and use it near the hub. Autozone loans them.

4. You DO need to relieve the tension on the belt at the tensioner and you DO need a means to rotate the tensioner (e.g. a pin-spanner tool or similar) to re-set it once the cam sprocket is back on. You also need to loosen the three IP bolts so when you reset the tensioner you do not side-load the belt's nubs on either the cam or IP sprocket. That's IMPORTANT.

5. As noted anything flat that will fit will work for the cam lock BUT it's VERY IMPORTANT that the slot be EXACTLY true to the flats on the head and it's also VERY important that whatever you use is NOT used for a counterhold -- you WILL break the tail end of the cam. The error margin on the crank and cam is SEVEN DEGREES of crank rotation. More than that and you hit valves, but MUCH less than that and you will have performance problems. You only have a ~1-2 degree window before things go downhill in terms of how the engine runs; it's that tight.

You can counterhold the sprocket on its webs when re-torquing the bolt with vice-grips or similar -- the torque spec is NOT very high. The nose of the cam and the sprocket MUST BE COMPLETELY CLEAN AND FREE OF OIL AND CONTAMINANTS when you put it back together. If they're not the sprocket can slip down the road and over-torquing the bolt can break the nose. Clean the taper on both sprocket and cam nose REAL WELL. Note that for this specific bolt (and the cam cap, if you remove it to do the seal) it's VERY IMPORTANT that you use a torque wrench. That's NOT optional.

Hint: It's MUCH easier to replace the seal if you unbolt the front cam journal cap. You're welcome.
Hi Genesis, which post are you telling me not to do?

dubrs.com
JettaTDIBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2019, 19:47   #6
Nero Morg
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Beaverton Oregon
Default

I think he's referring to the vice grip trick. I've done it, but I still wouldn't recommend it.
__________________
2003 Jetta Wagon silver- DLC520 VNT15 11MM pump 5 speed
ESP retrofit, MFSW retrofit
Malone Stage 2 w/ South Bend stage 3 endurance
Midwest Light Creation's HID headlights
Nero Morg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2019, 19:51   #7
JettaTDIBlack
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Brandon, FL
Fuel Economy: 38.88mpg/City Not tested, yet/Highway
Default

Just want to make sure that we're all on the same page. It looks to me like there is a small oil leak coming from behind here.

dubrs.com
JettaTDIBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2019, 19:55   #8
Genesis
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Niceville, FL
Fuel Economy: 53/48/42
Default

I'm saying don't do things by eye. There's no need to; the pump lock is easily improvised with the shank end of a drill bit.

You can't "pry" the cam pulley off without risking breaking the web. The "real deal" tool goes over the webs on the cam pulley but a gear puller will do the job IF you're careful with it (don't try to use the outside; you risk damaging or even breaking the pulley. Put the jaws on the webs.) You CAN try to pop it off with a punch or similar from the rear but I'd use a gear puller instead since they're easily borrowed from the auto-parts places. Loosen but DO NOT REMOVE the cam bolt; don't try to use a puller on the nose of the cam, use it against the bolt head.

The crank position is easy since you can see the TDC mark and a screwdriver jammed in the bellhousing will lock it. The tricky part, without the proper tools, is the cam. In addition to the slot having to be EXACTLY aligned with the cylinder head when you put it back together (1) you CANNOT use that slot to counterhold or the odds of breaking the rear of the cam are VERY high and (2) you do not want to counterhold the cam anyway, you want to counterhold the *pulley* or you risk the pulley moving on you while you're torquing it and then you get to start over or worse, you have the alignment off and when you check it won't line up.

Oh, by the way, there's another gotcha -- if you don't replace the vacuum pump seal whenever that thing is removed it will probably leak oil a bit. They're notorious for doing that if the seal is re-used and you have to get the head and groove scrupulously clean before putting the pump back on (or it leaks) as well. That's not a catastrophic problem but it's quite annoying if it starts leaking.

The other trick is that when you have the cam pulley off you'll find it quite hard to get it back on with the belt; the pulley will not want to go over the nose of the cam. The easy way to cheat is to remove the *top* roller. Put the pulley and belt back on and then before you torque the cam pulley bolt or set the tensioner put the roller back in.

It's pretty easy to make a cam sprocket counter-hold tool from a couple pieces of flat aluminum stock (or even a couple pieces of flat wood stock), bolts, nuts and washers. IMHO it's worth doing although if you can find a wrench (e.g. a small pipe wrench, etc.) that will get good purchase on the sprocket web down near the hub that would probably work too. The torque you're counter-holding against is not very high.

There's one -- and only one -- correct way to set everything. This is it:

1. Cam at TDC (Cyl 1 lobes up, slot EXACTLY parallel and locked); Crank at TDC, pump hub pinned, three bolts on IP sprocket loose but inserted. Cam nose and sprocket are clean and dry -- VERY IMPORTANT -- and sprocket and belt are back on and the roller (if you removed it) back on as well.

2. With CRANK LOCKED (screwdriver jammed in bellhousing is fine), IP pinned but sprocket bolts loose and cam sprocket on but bolt NOT torqued (just screwed in with your fingers) set the tensioner. Snap ring pliers work for this if you don't have the tool. Tighten the tensioner bolt. You will see the cam sprocket and IP sprocket move slightly when you tension the belt. That is what you want to see; it makes sure there is no side-load on the belt nubs since there is only ONE fixed reference (the crank pulley.)

3. Counterhold the cam SPROCKET (NOT the cam) and torque the cam bolt. I REMOVE the cam lock when doing this (if you screw up and torque the lock you will break the rear of the cam.) Put the lock back in -- it should go back in. If it doesn't you screwed up and moved it.

4. Torque the 3 IP bolts.

5. Re-check crank TDC. It should still be bang-on; you now have all three set properly.

6. Remove cam lock, IP pin and screwdriver in bellhousing.

6. Bar the engine over TWO FULL REVOLUTIONS by hand in the direction of rotation from the CRANK bolt (NOT the cam) and make sure you feel nothing but compression resistance. Return to crank TDC. The cam lock and IP pin MUST go back in. If the IP pin does not it's not the end of the world as long as it's close (it LOOKS like it should go in with an inspection mirror, but doesn't), but if the cam lock doesn't go back in then you screwed up -- go back and do it over. Check the tensioner; the pin should still be aligned with the slot.

If everything lines up EXACTLY you not only did it right but odds are good your static timing, when checked with VCDS, will be dead-balls on the centerline.

Last edited by Genesis; February 22nd, 2019 at 20:21.
Genesis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2019, 19:57   #9
[486]
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: St.Paul, MN
TDI(s): 02 golf ALH
Fuel Economy: 42 stock, 47-49 now
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
1. A drill bit will work for the pump lock..
it is very hard to get the IP off by 1 tooth, there is no need at all to lock the injection pump
you should adjust the timing eventually even if you do use the lock tool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
3. You DO need to pop the cam sprocket off, and you NEED a gear puller or similar to do it. A tool made for that is better, but a gear puller will work IF you're careful and use it near the hub. Autozone loans them..
hammer and punch from valve cover side, give the hub a good hard rap and it pops loose from the cam
Some people drill a hole in the plastic to use a round punch, I just take the two bolts out of the timing cover and use a chisel that fits down in there well enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
4. You DO need to relieve the tension on the belt at the tensioner and you DO need a means to rotate the tensioner (e.g. a pin-spanner tool or similar) to re-set it once the cam sprocket is back on.
90 degree snap ring pliers
[486] is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2019, 20:57   #10
WildChild80
Veteran Member
 
WildChild80's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Nashville, AR
Default

The hammer and punch are probably the safest bet without a good puller and I bought some snap ring pliers just for the tensioner. I found that our when I couldn't use my tensioner tool with the motor mount bracket bolted up...also used channel locks with the nut slightly tight but wouldn't suggest that at all

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
WildChild80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2019, 22:16   #11
JettaTDIBlack
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Brandon, FL
Fuel Economy: 38.88mpg/City Not tested, yet/Highway
Default

It would be great if someone made a video on how to do this on the cheap.

dubrs.com
JettaTDIBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2019, 02:33   #12
WildChild80
Veteran Member
 
WildChild80's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Nashville, AR
Default

There's a few videos out there on alternative tools to change a timing belt but proper tools are hard to beat, when I bought my first TDI, I could afford some of the proper tools and vcds, now I'm making a quarter of what I used to make, tools are an investment

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
WildChild80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2019, 06:12   #13
Windex
Veteran Member
 
Windex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cambridge
Fuel Economy: ʎɯouoɔƎ lǝnℲ
Default

I made my cam lock tool out of $.15 worth of steel angle iron.

I believe that is within your budget?
__________________

Proudly installing things where they're not supposed to go since 1996!
Windex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2019, 06:31   #14
jmodge
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Greenville, MI
Default

I believe "486" meant 5/16" metal for the cam lock tool. If you use a punch to remove the pulley make sure you hit it in the center of the spoke base as close to the hub of the sprocket you can. You can melt a small hole in the plastic inner cover and plug it later with a hole plug from the CAM SIDE. There are drawings online for DYI tools for this also.
__________________
The more I find to learn, I find there's more to learn
jmodge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2019, 11:25   #15
leafs
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: canada
TDI(s): alh
Default

for the timing belt tensioner tool you can use a piece of appropriate size flat metal. couple of drill holes of correct width, couple of approprate size machine screws and accompanying washer and nuts, bada boom bada bing you got a ghetto timing belt tensioner tool.
leafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cam Seal Replacement JAMTDI TDI 101 42 May 27th, 2017 13:16
Cam Seal Replacement kdawg89 VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas 4 April 18th, 2015 08:20
Cam Seal replacement question phawkins224 TDI 101 3 April 28th, 2014 16:19
cam seal replacement tools runonbeer TDI 101 4 October 4th, 2010 05:47
Cam seal replacement iwannajettatdi TDI 101 9 October 16th, 2007 21:47


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.17130 seconds with 13 queries
[Output: 134.99 Kb. compressed to 114.29 Kb. by saving 20.70 Kb. (15.33%)]