Passat 2.0 125kw jumping/jerking/hesitating/surging with first and second gear

Hi everyone!
Sorry for my bad english, but:
I have a problem with my 2.0 125kw BMR engine passat. The problem appears, when engine temperature has been to 90 and then car stands for about 2-3 hours. Then when starting engine and driving with first or second gear, not flooring pedal, but accelerating gently, then car starts to jump/hesitate/surge/stutter/jerk (sorry for not exact word, because i don't know how this exact thing would be in english). It's like someone is constantly playing with acceleration pedal - pedal down, pedal up, pedal down and pedal up and this way very fast. Actually pedal is gently pressed. This happens only when pedal is gently pressed and acceleration is slow. When flooring, then no such behaving. Also this starts little bit over 1100 rpm and ends about 1800rpm. When gently accelerating and rpm goes into such range, then when looking rpm neelde, it goes up and down sometimes even more than 100 rpm. Just like car is jumping. all the time. And this happens only with half warm engine. When engine warms up more than 70-80 degrees, then jumping/jerking disappears.
Few days ago went to local VW centre. They didn't find anything.
Has anyone had similar problem?

This is a 170 hp with Simens ECU.
The most common problem is Injectors. I think that maybe your problem.

jetta said:

This is a 170 hp with Simens ECU.
The most common problem is Injectors. I think that maybe your problem.

Click to expand...

Injectors have been replaced by vw dealer, last one few months ago. Injectors loom also replaced. It doesn't seem to be injectors fault, but not sure. It only happens with half warm engine - is there a way that half warm engine can cause injectors fault? There are no engine related errors in vcds. Even after hard jerking/jumping.

are temperature readings all plausible during warmup?

DPM said:

are temperature readings all plausible during warmup?

Click to expand...

Usually this jerking/jumping doesn't come when first warmup. It usually appears when engine gets warmed up, then few hours standing and when then starting, then jerky/jumpy.
I have tried to log this with vcds, but all the time i go with computer, then car acts normal -.-
Yesterday i saw, that instruments cluster showed 90, but vcds showed 76 degrees. Don't know if that may cause this?

I'll try to log temp readings soon.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwxZXierbf4rd2xfaUh5eTYxRlk/edit?usp=sharing

Here are some readings. In last pages, there are seperated values(from page 31).

rpm up and down can be seen from timestamp 81, 108 and 137. Before this log, i drove with car and temp in instruments cluster shower 90C. After that car stood few hours and then went to another drive and made this log.


Today, car stood about 8-9 hourds. When starting, in instruments cluster car showed 18C outside. After littre driving, when coolant temp in instruments cluster started to rise, then car started to hezitate/jump/jerk. It ended when car showed that temp is almost 90C.

With cold weather, it only jumps/jerks/hezitates after driving car warm and then after few hours stooding, when driving then. But with warm weathers like today (17 and more degrees), it sometimes gets jumpy/jerky with first try.

EDIT: With weather below zero, this jumping, jerking didn't appear at all... At least i didn't notice...

Here are some more readings when car jerky:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwxZXierbf4rVGpsLXZpM1lnRWM/edit

Last three values should be EGR values.
Start looking from stamp 53 and stamp 75

About a week ago, i disconnected EGR wire. After that, driving without EGR few days, i didn't manage to get this lumpiness. Car didn't jump/jerk/hesitate with first or second gear. Also idle was much smoother.
So i decided to clean EGR. When removed it, then i saw that it was not very glogged. But still, made it clean and tried to drive with egr connected. Next day jerking/jumping and wobble on idle was back. So i disconnected EGR wire again. Have been driving like that for 2-3 days now. Car doesn't wobble on idle, 1-2 gear doesn't hesitate/jerk with half warm engine (40-70 degrees) and fuel consumption is better. More kilometers per liter.
So probably EGR is broken? Cleaning didn't help.

Hope to get working EGR somewhere to test, if car jerks with it or not. If yes, then EGR delete maybe.

Your EGR valve is bad and it is not closing all the way .
Just do the tune on it and delete EGR is tune , Best option for ever.

Sorri for long reply. After driving some time with egr disconnected, everything seemed good. So i ordered new EGR. Few days ago, i got my new egr. But seems that original EGR was not faulty, because this jerkiness is still present.
Also i tried to drive few days with another MAF. This didn't change anything.

Next thing on my mind is maybe temperature sensor? Seems that fault is connected to egr. Maybe temperature sensor is sending wrong signals to egr/ecu and ecu lets egr to open or close not correctly?

Also, when car temperature is in that sweet spot, there comes some kind of bitter smell from back and also some kind of white smoke. Idle is also lumpy when this happens. Don't remember such things, when EGR was disconnected.

vaporised/ uncombusted fuel.

Has this car a DPF?

DPM said:

vaporised/ uncombusted fuel.

Has this car a DPF?

Click to expand...

Yes, car has DPF.

E: can those things be connected with EGR?

EGR is certainly part of the DPF's regen strategy, and I believe regenerations are disabled if there are active faults in the EGR or EGT systems.

DPM said:

EGR is certainly part of the DPF's regen strategy, and I believe regenerations are disabled if there are active faults in the EGR or EGT systems.

Click to expand...

Yes, i know this part. When i drove around when EGR was disconnected (MIL was on), then no regeneration worked. I had to connect EGR. But now, there are no active faults. EGR is new, MAF is working correctly (i drove some days with another MAF, nothing changed). But still, car is jerky when driving with 1-2 gear and idle is lumpy + white smoke when engine half warm (coolant temp between 40-70 degrees). With warm engine, there are no problems, idle is almost smooth and drive with first and second gear is good. Same with cold engine, no jerkyness.

So if we presume that the white smoke is massively retarded timing and you're sure that all the temperature senders are reporting correctly, what else can force retarded timing?

Have you checked the torsion figure?

Are all and any intake flap valves operating correctly?

Is the latest software loaded in the ECU?

These are Piezo PD injectors yes? Does the fuel return circuit have any odd pressure regulators on it, to suit the Piezo units, and if so are they working OK?

1) I will try to change the temp sensor, to see if it changes behaviour.
2) I have, it is 2.93 cold and 2.2 hot. I've seen the changing of torsion value on every 16v pd engine.
3) Yes, intake flaps should be ok
4) Dealer told that there were no available software update.
5) PD piezo yes, fuel pressure is regulated by tandem pump, and no other pressure regulators aren't present.

here is a little video about this white smoke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6YcnCBsmx4&feature=youtu.be

Engine temp was about 60-80C

So what is happened recently:

Changed intake manifold, because it was going bad... No effect on jerking with half warm engine. But it changed a bit cars behavior. When stopping car, it's much more smooth. And manouvering with first gear up the hill when pressing clutch, it doesn't feel that engine wants to stop. Seems that low revs performance is better when manouvering.

But again this jerking/hesitating problem:
decided to put block-off plate to EGR so exhaust gases wont reach to engine. At first there is no engine light. And car doesn't jerk with half warm engine. AFter some time, engine light comes up..

So this made me wonder. Maybe EGR cooler is bad? Found out that EGR cooler switches flap position around 50 degrees? My car problems start above 40 and end somewhere between 60-70 degrees. Maybe EGR cooler lets too much exhaust gases to engine at this specific temperature range and as a result of it engine suffocates from too much exhaust gases?

Hello,
I have 2.0 TDI PD 170 with DPF and also had the jerkiness/hesitation/flat spots and strong exhaust smell.

To stop/solve the jerkiness/hesitation, don't blank completely the egr, you'll have to use a plate with a small hole in the middle to avoid engine light. See pic and part number below.


You also have your timming out, torsion value must be 0.00 or 0.50, that will solve your white smoke - it solved on mine.

After timming adjustment and new egr gasket, I still have the strong/bitter smell from exhaust... did you find a cure for it?

I've disconnected EGR for a few runs but the strong/bitter smell is still there on idle... i'll try to get a new egr and see if it solves.
Talked about DPF delete with a few people they told me the smell would be worse??

AbandonAllHope said:

Hello,
I have 2.0 TDI PD 170 with DPF and also had the jerkiness/hesitation/flat stops and strong exhaust smell.

To stop/solve the jerkiness/hesitation, don't blank completely the egr, you'll have to use a plate with a small hole in the middle to avoid engine light. See pic and part number below.

You also have your timming out, torsion value must be 0.00 or 0.50, that will solve your white smoke - it solved on mine.

After timming adjustment and new egr gasket, I still have the strong/bitter smell from exhaust... did you find a cure for it?

I've disconnected EGR for a few runs but the strong/bitter smell is still there on idle... i'll try to get a new egr and see if it solves.
Talked about DPF delete with a few people they told me the smell would be worse??

Click to expand...

Hi!
At least i'm not the only one with this problem (i'm not glad that someone else has it, but maybe you can find the answers...)

At the moment, i haven't done much with these problems... lately i bought another 2.0 tdi 170 with same BMR engine and it runs greate... Now i have time to investigate my problem car...

I've thougt about this block plate with small hole in it, but i haven't done it yet. Ideally i would like to find the problemt, that causes this jerkyness... But when i don't find it, then this kind of block plate will do the trick.

My second car has even bigger torsion value (when cold 3.37 and when warm then 2.93). It smokes a little bit when half warm, but not so much as the problem car... ideally i will try to correct both torsion values.
Did you correct torsion value yourself or someone else did it? If you made it yourself, did you use some special tools and/or had some good link where they teach to do that?

I haven't found the cure for this bitter smell. It has gone bit worse... One person told me that it's unburn fuel that causes this bitter smell. Lately my injector readings are gone bit worse also (when cold, readings are good, less than 0,5 per injector, but when coolant temp reaches to 43 degrees or so, then reading go bigger... car starts to wobble on idle and smoke also starts with bitter smell). When engine runs and watching injector readings... when someone disconects egr plug, injector readings go much better. Maybe those bad injector readings come because of too much excaust gases go to inlet... I have to try out this half blocking plate
I have also thougt about dpf delete, but i'll try those more simple things before (block plate with small hole, pipes cleaning and so on)

And for information - new egr didn't cure my car... at first last summer i also thought that egr causes all these problems, but it was not the egr... egr is wrongly operated by ecu or too much excaust gases come into inlet manifold...

I'll post here, if i find out something that helps.

The timming was checked and corrected on a Audi dealer. I suggested you do it on a dealer or specialized tuning shop.

Your new 2.0 TDI pd also has the bitter/strong exhaust smell?
Yes, i've also been told it's unburned fuel, I now suspect it's related with one or more of the following:

- DPF constant regen;
- Lambda sensor malfunction;
- Air leak somewhere on intake;

AbandonAllHope said:

The timming was checked and corrected on a Audi dealer. I suggested you do it on a dealer or specialized tuning shop.

Your new 2.0 TDI pd also has the bitter/strong exhaust smell?
Yes, i've also been told it's unburned fuel, I now suspect it's related with one or more of the following:

- DPF constant regen;
- Lambda sensor malfunction;
- Air leak somewhere on intake;

Click to expand...

Here in estonia, local VW dealer told that it's not and issue, so i'll have to find someone else for torsion...

My new 2.0 TDI BMR (actually mileage is bigger and car is one year older) doesn't have this bitter smell... at least i haven't noticed.

At idle and not fully warm engine doesn't regen? For my car, this bitter smell starts when engine temp reaches to 40+...
Do you know how to check lambdas?

By the way - today i ordered new EGR gasket with small hole in it. Lets see if it helps

Few days ago i installed this EGR gasget with small hole in it. Seems like, it made car act better. Not ideal, but better. Little wobble remained when engine half warm and idling. Cannot test the jerking yet, because weather is not enough warm (car didn't jerk with cold weathers). Smoking didn't dissapear... Anyway, at the moment it seems that good 3,5 EUR investment was this gasget