Engine Braking: We cool with that?

MaynardLD50

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2012 Passat TDI SEL
I live in the burbs which means we have a metric ton of stoplights. One thing I starting doing yesterday, but was a little nervous about, was engine braking with the triptronic. I drove a 5 speed beetle back in the day and use to use it all the time. Is this ok on our Passat's or am I destroying that automatic DSG?
 

tdiatlast

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"Destroying that automatic DSG?" Doubtful.

Added wear and tear on the DSG? Unknown, but probably not as benign as letting it downshift on its own. (Your MPGs would probably be marginally better if you let the DSG do its own work)

Are brake parts cheaper than a worn-out DSG? Definitely!
 

Ski in NC

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Use the brakes to slow down. The clutches in the tranny have to drag the engine up to next gear's rpm and that's more dragging than it would do on an upshift or a programmed downshift near idle. Might not be much wear, but why take the chance.

Brakes are cheap. Cheaper yet is to try to ease up on the light so as much momentum as possible is maintained
 

Niner

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Jun 3, 2011
"Destroying that automatic DSG?" Doubtful.

Added wear and tear on the DSG? Unknown, but probably not as benign as letting it downshift on its own. (Your MPGs would probably be marginally better if you let the DSG do its own work)

Are brake parts cheaper than a worn-out DSG? Definitely!
/\ This... pads and rotors are 10 x cheaper than a DSG. Use the brakes, or anticipate red lights sooner and let off the throttle sooner so you don't need to use the brakes. Engineer "green light go" timing if the route you are on is a daily or regular commute.
 

MaynardLD50

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2012 Passat TDI SEL
It's such an efficient glider though! I'm letting off and this guy just keeps momentum forever. Thanks for the logic with the DSG to brake pad comparison.
 

AtlantaRene

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May 12, 2012
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Atlanta, GA
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2012 Passat TDI SE DSG w/Sunroof and Nav
I have adjusted my behavior in the DSG. I stay in drive and I increased my following distance. When approaching a stop, I lightly put my foot on the brake after a few seconds I feel the transmission downshift and then coast.

I'm so use to the behavior (with only 2500 miles of experience) that I am annoyed that my Honda Accord does not do the same thing.

-- AtlantaRene

-- AtlantaRene
 

TheGrove

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Using sport mode will also work. I've started doing that and it helps slow down by just lifting the throttle. Once on the interstate it shifts up into the upper gears and gives me the highway mileage I'm looking for.
 

r11

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And of course, there's a also an application of same when going down extended steep grades, where one doesn't really have an option - it is between cooking one's break pads to point of fading OR having a controlled descent with engine compression/natural friction providing the braking force.
 
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ColoradoDriver

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The clutch on the DSG do not "drag down" anything to switch gears. The computer perfectly matches RPMs for the down shift. It is only after the split-second down shift that the engine's compression comes into play.
 

VeeDubTDI

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I don't think you're going to kill it by engine braking, as the car downshifts itself anyway - not like you're adding any more shift counts to it. With the wet clutch, wear compared to a conventional dry clutch is reduced. The engine also rev matches downshifts, further reducing transmission wear.
 

no-blue-screen

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I engine brake regularly with my 6spd MT. Using the brakes carries more cost than just pads and rotors. You are wasting fuel each time you use the breaks by converting that energy back into heat.

The DSG is a computer controlled sequential manual transmission. You aren't going to hurt it by downshifting to slow the vehicle.

I will also say that its best not to have to do that and anticipate, but that is nearly impossible when you have a ton of traffic signals. I use the brakes too....I just don't have to use them as much or apply as much force when I downshift to the next lowest gear.
 

meowguy

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I do not downshift my DSG in normal city driving. I will drop it down to 5 when approaching a toll booth. I drop it down to 3 or 4 to keep the engine from lugging on hilly neighborhood streets at 30 mph or so. I drove my last TDI 66,000 miles and did not have to replace the transmission or brakes.

In general I agree brakes are cheaper than a tranny rebuild.
 

MaynardLD50

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Chicago
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2012 Passat TDI SEL
Answer to the thread: No, No we are not cool with that. Buy brake pads, not transmissions.
 

VeeDubTDI

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Answer to the thread: No, No we are not cool with that. Buy brake pads, not transmissions.
Speak for yourself. As I already explained, the DSG has wet clutches, rev matches and downshifts itself automatically anyway (no extra shift cycles added by downshifting in tip mode).
 

Niner

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Jun 3, 2011
Yes :( I'm learning as fast as I can
It's not as bad as it seems, unless you are a bad driver. I've gotten 130k miles out of a set of brake pads on my TDI. Conservative use of brakes leads to conservative repair bills, Liberal use of brakes leads to liberal repair bills. It's really that simple. Conserve your transmission and brakes if you don't like big expensive repair bills. Drive your car nicely, not abusively.
 

Matt-98AHU

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Speak for yourself. As I already explained, the DSG has wet clutches, rev matches and downshifts itself automatically anyway (no extra shift cycles added by downshifting in tip mode).
Quoted for extra emphasis.

How many people actually grasp the concept of REV-MATCHING anyway?

When a DSG downshifts, the moment the clutches are disengaged, the engine computer tells the injectors to fire more fuel, automatically raising the engine RPMs higher to the exact point required for the next lowest gear that you've just selected, then it engages the next clutch for said selected gear. The amount of slipping the clutch is negligible.

I do this manually with my own MANUAL transmission cars when downshifting. The moment I press in the clutch, I blip the throttle pedal with my right foot, raising the engine RPMs to the approximate point they need to be at for the gear I'm selecting, then release the clutch in one quick, smooth motion. If you get the engine RPMs just right, you can release the clutch completely and instantly with no slipping and it will be absolutely smooth. No jerking.

The DSG is simply doing this for you. It's more noticeable on gas cars with a loud exhaust, you can actually HEAR the engine revving up for that split second as it shifts. This is how it can perform the downshifts so incredibly fast all while being perfectly smooth. It doesn't make the clutches bring the engine up to RPM, it has the engine bring the RPMs up itself, then VERY QUICKLY engages the clutch.
 

tdi90hp

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Canuckland
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DSGs scare me....baby these babies are gonna cost some serious bread when they puke....brakes are cheaper....but each driver has his own set of circumstances...i serviced golf yesterday....45,000kms...6 speed.....checked the brakes...over 90% on fronts and close to 90 on rears....it's how you drive and look ahead in traffic that counts more....
 

CalibreTDI

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Apr 12, 2007
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GTA
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2006 Jetta, 2012 Passat
The engine breaking on my 2012 Passat seems excessive (lack of a better word). At lower speeds when coasting to a stop the lower gears seem to engage somewhat prematurely. I'm not a mechanic so I just base my observations on that - my observations. I think from a safety perspective this is great - maybe it's just something you have to get used to. However, on the way up, from 1 to 6, the car shifts like a boss. Last time I drove an automatic was back in the early 90s, some topaz or tempo. :) Man, these new auto trannys sure came a long way.
My wife drives the passat, I drive a manual jetta. The passat is a car and a half, much more comfortable but the downshifting is definietely something I have to get used to.

Calibre
 

VeeDubTDI

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It's necessary for the trans to downshift in order to keep a gear engaged while you're slowing down. If it just went into neutral, you'd have a delay as it selected the correct gear and re-engaged should you decide to accelerate again - then people would complain about it "hunting" or being sluggish.
 
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