FrostHeater & Grille Block: Initial Impressions

FrostHeater: I had it installed by a local guru. I started the install myself and then got cold feet when I got to the hose splice portion, so I decided to leave it to a pro. The guru knocked it out in 1.5 hours, half of which was tweaking the mounting bracket. It's fine as it ships, but it does place the heating unit only about a quarter inch over the plastic belly cover, which made the guru a bit nervous. He moved the bolt hole on the bracket so that the unit now sits about an inch over the pan.

Impressions: My car is not garaged. At startup in ~20F after sitting overnight and the FrostHeater running for two hours, monitored by ScanGaugeII the startup water temp was 140F and dropped to 107F within seconds of starting. That is a nice improvement, though I'll admit I was hoping for a bit more retained heat, but I'm still pleased. It got up to operating temperature noticeably faster.

Grille Block (home made): I picked up the only tubular foam pipe insulation offered in-store at my local Lowes. It's very cheap, ranging from $1 to $1.50 per 6-ft section. Diameters available, IIRC, were 1/2, 3/4, and 1 inch (I am not 100% certain on the sizes; just think of them as S, M, and L). I ended up using two sections of the Small diameter to fill my three lower grille gaps and the top gap in the upper grille. I used one section of the Medium to fill the bottom gap in the upper grille. I took a pair of scissors and eyeballed it, cutting to fill the gaps and meet the edges at the angles. I simply wedged the foam between the horizontal gaps and they stay put during highway speed no problem. On the very top gap in the upper grille, I also cut indentations for the vertical supports (not necessary on any of the others) so that I could make more friction to keep it in place when opening the hood. That foam is hard to see in the below pic, but it's in there just below the front hood line if you look close. It took maybe 20 minutes to come up with this, which is aesthetically pleasing enough for me, and is easily removed for car washes and warmer days:


Impressions: AWESOME! I started the car after sitting six hours outside in 22F and running the FrostHeater for two hours before starting. I was up to full operating temperature of 193F water and 203F oil in only twelve miles, doing 55 mph on a rural road. Water temperature held at 193F throughout the trip. Oil temp held at 208F, which is a tad warmer than my normal 203-205. On the 40 mile drive I returned the below mpg. Absolutely thrilled with this mod:

Good deal. Try an extra hour and see how the pre-start temp is.

Mrrogers1 said:

Good deal. Try an extra hour and see how the pre-start temp is.

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I ran the FrostHeater from 5-9 am this morning and went on another drive (38 miles).

Initial water temp readout on the ScanGauge at startup was 157F, which dropped to 110F in a few seconds and then began climbing again.

Similar results as my first test trip yesterday. Up to full op temp in about 12-15 miles, then stayed at 193F water and 208F oil.

Mpg of 57 is probably about 10 mpg better than I'd have gotten on a bone cold engine and no grille block, so again, I'm very pleased with these two mods.

Today's trip:

Blue Hen thanks. I put foam on today. Hardly driven this winter. But putting on about 300 miles this coming Friday.

Blue Hen- do you drive in D all the time or do you use the S mode anytime?

tdidieselbobny said:

Blue Hen- do you drive in D all the time or do you use the S mode anytime?

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I use S from stops up to cruising speed and then switch to D. I'll also pop it in S if I'm heading up a slight incline and the RPMs are dropping below 1500 rpm. I try to keep the RPMs closer to 2000 going up an incline. Chesapeake Bay Bridge (Annapolis) is my prime example. It's about a 2 mile climb and traffic is usually doing about 45-50 mph. Car will get close to lugging in D.

Reading this interested me, so I decided to test my new 2015 Beetle. Texas is having one of its rare cold spells right now. This morning it was 22F outside and the car had sat outside and cold soaked all night. Coated with ice. Upon getting in the temp showed 22F. Started the car and started driving. Within 2 miles it was 100F (coolant) and some usable heat. In 8 miles it had reached 195F and had full heat. Is there some difference between these that would account for this? It seems my car already does what your Frost heater is trying to do in a similar circumstance.

I am considering the FrostHeater especially after this recent round of cold temperatures. My car needs over 15 minutes of driving to come up to proper engine coolant and oil temperatures when it is -10 F outside.

Thanks for the review

-Joe

Lightflyer1 said:

Reading this interested me, so I decided to test my new 2015 Beetle. Texas is having one of its rare cold spells right now. This morning it was 22F outside and the car had sat outside and cold soaked all night. Coated with ice. Upon getting in the temp showed 22F. Started the car and started driving. Within 2 miles it was 100F (coolant) and some usable heat. In 8 miles it had reached 195F and had full heat. Is there some difference between these that would account for this? It seems my car already does what your Frost heater is trying to do in a similar circumstance.

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Are you referring to your water temp gauge OR actual ready from SGII or Torques app that taps into the actually sensor data for the water and oil temp? Gauge is not very "precise" and the perception of "full heat" can be realized before the water temp is actually all the way up due to the electric aux heater, at least we Golf peeps, have. The electric heater can give the impression though.... I had a blocked heater core, had NO water heat in the cabin and still had "heat" inside, all be it, just on driver side of the car. The EXTREME cold 3wk back made it very clear that something was going on so I took it in. I've been driving a MY17 GTI ever since, just waiting for parts to arrive in the states....

I highly doubt a cold car *actually* going to do what frost heater does in terms of getting a HUGE jump on the water temp curve.

My car has an actual digital temp (coolant, oil) gauge both in the dash drivers display and in the center dash gauge display (Boost, oil temp and timer). As well as my Torque gauges on my phone. They all agree.

Dash looks like this:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/IMG_4285.jpg

There are a lot of variables at play in a comparison between models. Aside from the chassis and bodywork being different, the Mk7 has the EA288 engine with the water intercooler on the intake manifold. Does the 15 Beetle have the EA288? I honestly don’t know.

Then there are so many other variables like if the car is garaged or left outside, driving style, wind, tire pressure. It’s pretty difficult to compare one person’s situation to another without accounting for all of that.

Suffice to say, in an apples to apples comparison (in this case, my car and my same driving style before and after these mods), they made a HUGE difference in warm-up and MPG.

For instance, a week ago (before mods), I went for a 40 mile drive and the car never reached full operating temp. Oil stayed below 200 and water below 190 the whole trip. Now I’m getting up to full temp in 12 miles, which is great. I was fighting to get to 50 mpg in cold weather (had my first full tank ever below 50 just a week ago) and this morning on my commute I did the below. The results speak for themselves:

I believe the Beetle does have the EA288 engine. It is a CVCA. As your car was mine was also outside and was covered in ice due to our storm here. 22F temp outside. I am not saying anything about yours and am glad you have a solution to your issue. Just wondering why mine seems to perform differently doing basically the same thing. The air from the heater was blasting hot after 8 miles or so. From another thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5010422&postcount=2

"They're all the same basic engines. EA288 is the new generation (2015+) TDI. Within the EA288 family there is the CVCA and CRUA. CVCA engines are in the Beetle, Jetta and Passat. CRUA is in the Golf and Golf Wagon. The main difference is oil capacity and minor mounting differences due to the smaller engine bay in the Golf. So a Passat engine will not fit in a Golf bay since the Passat engine has different mounts and will interfere will more things. Otherwise, they're identical."

Lightflyer1 said:

I believe the Beetle does have the EA288 engine. It is a CVCA. As your car was mine was also outside and was covered in ice due to our storm here. 22F temp outside. I am not saying anything about yours and am glad you have a solution to your issue. Just wondering why mine seems to perform differently doing basically the same thing. The air from the heater was blasting hot after 8 miles or so.

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How fast were you driving. I would guess faster than 55? That would certainly warm you up faster. I know that in the Wild West states people drive 70+. I’d go to jail for doing 20 over here. Hell, I had a State Trooper give me five citations on one ticket (reckless, aggressive, following too close, failure to signal, and speeding) all for one evasive maneuver I did. Luckily, I had my State Trooper relative make it go away for me. I also had a county Sheriff deputy give me a warning for 57 in a 50 on my way to work last year. The police enforcement is oppressive where I live. So, I try to stay at 5 over, tops.

Ice storm here. 35 to 40 mph max. No one down here knows how to drive in the snow and ice. Most people stayed home. Most overpasses were closed. All bridges were iced along with some roads.

It’s also interesting to note that the Beetle only has one lower grille opening:

Just curious. Does a grill block affect the performance of the car since it blocks air flow into engine?

sportwagen3 said:

Just curious. Does a grill block affect the performance of the car since it blocks air flow into engine?

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At <32F temps, I don’t see how it would unless you’re maybe big turbo and tuned and really required increased extra cold air to meet your performance goals. With the little stock turbo I haven’t noticed any difference, other than much faster warmup, increased mpg, and slightly higher operating temperature (195 vs 193 water and 208 vs 203 oil). Also, I watched my first regen yesterday with the grille block on ScanGauge and the oil temp peaked at 212, which is not bad at all. Some folks have reported their 2015s getting up to 230 in the summer: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=479075

Blue Hen TDI. After using your FrostHeater for a little longer, what is your recommended preheat time? Considering that it uses electricity/costs money to operate, and it seems that preheating for four hours only yields a little more temperature than a two-hour preheat.

codyayrton said:

Blue Hen TDI. After using your FrostHeater for a little longer, what is your recommended preheat time? Considering that it uses electricity/costs money to operate, and it seems that preheating for four hours only yields a little more temperature than a two-hour preheat.

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I'd say three hours at the freezing mark. Up that for bitter cold (four hours was beneficial when it was overnight low around 15F) and lower it for warmer (two hours for 40F is probably fine).

Blue_Hen_TDI said:

(two hours for 40F is probably fine).

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At 40°F I don't even bother.

Mine in a 50 some degree garage I only plug it in for a couple hours if it's well less than freezing outside.
If it's about freezing or more I don't plug it in, then don't turn the fan on for the first 5-10 minutes of driving, the car is warm from being in the garage and soon enough warms up on it's own and makes heat if desired.

If left outside and less than freezing I use 3-4 hours plugged in and its plenty warm right out of the driveway.

Use a timer, set your "on time" window for 2 hours, 3 hours, or whatever time before you leave in the morning, try it and adjust the time as needed to get the response you want. Also decide when you want to plug it in or not, if it's warmer out you might not, or might shorten the time.

Grigg

I'm glad to have the frost heater even with a garage.

Depending on your drive and the outside temperature the engine might not get warm.
Less than 20*F outside having the engine already quite warm is helpful, good heat for the cabin right away. At least in my case.

Sorry for the newbie question, but is there a pre-set timer that turns the heater on? If you're leaving the home at 6am, are you guys waking up at 2 to plug in the car?

Daks said:

Sorry for the newbie question, but is there a pre-set timer that turns the heater on? If you're leaving the home at 6am, are you guys waking up at 2 to plug in the car?

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I bought a timer through FrostHeater’s webpage with mine, but you could get one at Lowe’s, Home Depot, Walmart, hardware store, etc.

NHJoe said:

I am considering the FrostHeater especially after this recent round of cold temperatures. My car needs over 15 minutes of driving to come up to proper engine coolant and oil temperatures when it is -10 F outside.

Thanks for the review

-Joe

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I feel your pain. It wasn't so bad when I was down there in Manchester. Now I'm in Conway and it feels like it's 20 degrees colder some mornings!

Revisiting this. I'm likely going to purchase a FrostHeater soon and was doing homework. The FrostHeater is 1000W according to the website. My electric utility charges $0.071 per kWh. So it is $0.15-$0.20 to preheat these vehicles two to three hours. Overnight would be about $0.70. $51.00 a month if you plug it in and forget about it.

I only plug mine in at work. Garaged at home. 12 hour shifts and up to -30F outside. The heater on the dash gauge will initially show about 170F and quickly drop to just above the bottom of the gauge. I do have instant warm air and am at full operating temperature within 5 miles at said temperatures.Without the heater I could go 15 miles before reaching full temp. That being said the heater install itself is not a very easy task. The cutting of the one hose and removal of the coating is a pain as there is very little room. I have a 4 post lift and every known tool for this type of project and still classify it as an intermediate skills project not for people that only do oil changes and not more advanced maintenance. .02 cents

codyayrton said:

Revisiting this. I'm likely going to purchase a FrostHeater soon and was doing homework. The FrostHeater is 1000W according to the website. My electric utility charges $0.071 per kWh. So it is $0.15-$0.20 to preheat these vehicles two to three hours. Overnight would be about $0.70. $51.00 a month if you plug it in and forget about it.

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Having installed my own FrostHeater yesterday, I can confirm that I'm spending $0.0725 an hour. I compared my home electric meter with and without the FrostHeater plugged in. It pulls about 977 watts. My electric utility charges $0.0742 per KWH.

My initial impression of the FrostHeater is good. It sure warms the engine better than the block heaters do on my pickup. Looking forward to some cold weather.

Don't forget the delivery and connection charges on that utility bill.

For 663kwhr used last month, my bill of $132.85 breaks down to $0.20 kwhr, of that more than half goes to the delivery side of the house. The supply rate for this 6 month period is only $0.08825, it's amazing at how everything adds up.

Maybe thats the only good thing about you PNW folks and your cheap hydro.