Frozen TDI

I live in Northern Ontario and I'm freezing in my TDI. I have a 2004 TDI Bora that won't heat up unless you drive it really hard for a long distance.

I know diesel vehicles do not heat unless you drive them because they are so efficient, but I can't drive my TDI with frosted windows to warm the car up.

I have installed an inline block heater, which helps, but there are tons of places I can't plug my car into so that only works sometimes. I have even blocked the entire radiator off to prevent cold air from getting near it.

Has anyone ever wired an auxiliary heater into their TDI? I know you can buy ones that plug into a cigarette lighter but then don't give off any heat. I want to wire a powerful heater in the vehicle that I can use until the engine reaches a hot temperature.

Anyone have any suggestions?

FYI
-Today was –24C (-11F). Even after driving 22km the engine never reached 90C
-I have had the thermostat replaced last week, still no better.
-Engine coolant is fine
-Even with the rad blocked off the vehicle barley gets to 90C.

increase the coolant concentration.
is the belly pan installed ?

Ian15 said:

I live in Northern Ontario and I'm freezing in my TDI. I have a 2004 TDI Bora that won't heat up unless you drive it really hard for a long distance.

I know diesel vehicles do not heat unless you drive them because they are so efficient, but I can't drive my TDI with frosted windows to warm the car up.

I have installed an inline block heater, which helps, but there are tons of places I can't plug my car into so that only works sometimes. I have even blocked the entire radiator off to prevent cold air from getting near it.

Has anyone ever wired an auxiliary heater into their TDI? I know you can buy ones that plug into a cigarette lighter but then don't give off any heat. I want to wire a powerful heater in the vehicle that I can use until the engine reaches a hot temperature.

Anyone have any suggestions?

FYI
-Today was –24C (-11F). Even after driving 22km the engine never reached 90C
-I have had the thermostat replaced last week, still no better.
-Engine coolant is fine
-Even with the rad blocked off the vehicle barley gets to 90C.

Click to expand...

Where did you get thermostat?
Anything but original Thermostat from Dealer is just a crap.Car will never warm up properly .
I was in January this year in NM and one morning was 2F( -17C) and car got heat after 5 miles driving. No blocking radiator at all, but before trip I put new thermostat from dealer.

I've often wondered.........I have a portable battery jumper. You know,one of the ones you charge up to jump a car with. I believe you can buy a 120 volt converter fo them.

Could a person not plug their car into this in a parking lot? Anyone tried it?

Easy way to test the thermostat... grab the lower radiator hose. If your car is not up to temp and it is warm, you have a leaking/faulty thermostat.

I recently replaced mine with a NAPA performance thermostat. Car warms up like a rocket now and I have plenty of heat. You might want to double check the temperature rating of the thermostat that was put in. They come in a few different temperatures.

Also, your heater core gets a continuous supply of coolant even when you first start the car. Whatever the temperature of your engine is what the temperature of your heater core should be too. If you are getting no heat at all, you might want to look into testing the flow through the heater core.


Blocking off the radiator should be a moot point with a properly operating thermostat.

Webasto?

Harbor Tools sells a small heater for few dollars. You plug it in the power socket and it then throws warm air.

And burns your car to the ground. Neat!

VeeDubTDI said:

And burns your car to the ground. Neat!

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You'd at least have heat while the car burns down

change the thermostat i just had the same problem now it's throwing heat in no time.

There really shouldn't be ice on the inside of the car and you need to scrape off the ice on the outside. Idling it might get you warm enough it you wait a long time and it isn't as cold but once you hit a certain point you just need to have a load on the engine to get some heat. The newer TDI's from what I have read have an electric heater element built in to the HVAC system so this isn't as big of an issue. Other options are like stated. There is a heater that uses a little bit of battery and burns fuel to heat both the engine a cab. Truckers use them and I think it is an option on the tdi's over seas. This was the Webasto that was stated above.

Then there is the harbor frieght heater or similar heater. They can work as well. New a gal that didn't have the money to fix the blend door on her Ford explorer so she bought two of these heaters instead. One for window defrost and the other for her. Worked for he last winter all winter. I wouldn't leave it in your car plugged in without you in the car though as it could go up in flames. But at the same time I have seen some in Wyoming that plug their car in and then have a second plug for a space heater that is in the car that is on all day as well. I wouldn't trust that.

Using a jump pack won't work-won't last long enough.

Mine did that, very little heat ... i bought a certified used TDI Beetle (came with a warranty), so the garage changed the thermostat, drove it home, again, very little heat ... so i brought it back, turns out the door inside the heater box had come off it's hinges, so it did not matter where i placed the heat control on the dash, the door (or flapper) never moved, it was jammed ... as soon as they fixed that, i had TONS of heat !!!

jetta said:

Where did you get thermostat?
Anything but original Thermostat from Dealer is just a crap.Car will never warm up properly .
I was in January this year in NM and one morning was 2F( -17C) and car got heat after 5 miles driving. No blocking radiator at all, but before trip I put new thermostat from dealer.

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Disagree. Aftermarket thermostats work well, there is no need to spend $50 for a dealer supplied one with the little tabs.
the OP might not have refilled the system completely

Dimitri16V said:

Disagree. Aftermarket thermostats work well, there is no need to spend $50 for a dealer supplied one with the little tabs.
the OP might not have refilled the system completely

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Not... I only use the OEM ones from the dealer, they are far and away better at both getting the engine up to temp quickly AND allowing coolant flow properly, as they are a two-stage design. It makes a difference, you can see it with a scan tool. They are expensive, but worth it for superior operation.

flyingmikey said:

Mine did that, very little heat ... i bought a certified used TDI Beetle (came with a warranty), so the garage changed the thermostat, drove it home, again, very little heat ... so i brought it back, turns out the door inside the heater box had come off it's hinges, so it did not matter where i placed the heat control on the dash, the door (or flapper) never moved, it was jammed ... as soon as they fixed that, i had TONS of heat !!!

Click to expand...

If yo read complete first post you will see the door is not problem. His car does not reach 90C or 190F even after driving 15 -20 miles.

oilhammer said:

Not... I only use the OEM ones from the dealer, they are far and away better at both getting the engine up to temp quickly AND allowing coolant flow properly, as they are a two-stage design. It makes a difference, you can see it with a scan tool. They are expensive, but worth it for superior operation.

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Thank you .

jetta said:

If yo read complete first post you will see the door is not problem. His car does not reach 90C or 190F even after driving 15 -20 miles.

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i saw that after i posted !

pknopp said:

I've often wondered.........I have a portable battery jumper. You know,one of the ones you charge up to jump a car with. I believe you can buy a 120 volt converter fo them.

Could a person not plug their car into this in a parking lot? Anyone tried it?

Click to expand...

Interesting idea. I don't see why you couldn't, but I don't think a jump pack would last long enough to heat up the coolant much. It might help enough to get a cold engine to start a little easier, but probably not to throw much heat.

The jumper pack I have is only good for 400 amps (DC). My Frostheater/zertostart is 1000 amps AC. The inverter will consume some power while doing thing, so I doubt my jumper pack would last even an hour. There are more powerful versions available.

If I can find the charger for the jump pack, I'll charge it up overnight tonight and plug it in tomorrow and see what happens. It's only supposed to get into the mid 30s overnight.

Edit: I don't think I'll be able to do this experiment as my inverter is only good for 750W.

the OEM thermostats may work well but not after few years. never had a sticking open aftermarket wahler thermostat fail on my older VWs. i always used the colder ones on those cars. In my 04 TDI, the thermostat started sticking after 6 yrs, I consider that an early failure , better design or not

Trying to operate a 1000 watt coolant heater on an inverter on a jumper pack is ridiculous. I'm curious to see if it works for longer than 20 minutes... doubtful.

VeeDubTDI said:

Trying to operate a 1000 watt coolant heater on an inverter on a jumper pack is ridiculous. I'm curious to see if it works for longer than 20 minutes... doubtful.

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correct , no way it would happen

Cardboard for the extreme cold or inline heater when you can and then dress for the cold not the office.

How do you know if the thermostat is stuck open when installed in the car? I would think feeling the lower radiator hose for any movement would be the only way. Mine seems to take a long time to warm up and I have the front of the radiator blocked off, and this is with the heater blower OFF. A fifteen mile drive through the suburbs, no highway, and my scan gauge will reach ~ 180 +, but I know the T-stat has not yet opened. Should it have opened under these conditions? On the highway the SG will sometimes reach 190 or 192 for a 18 mile trip, but again I can tell that the T-stat has not yet opened up. Only when I see an abrupt drop to 185F, then I know the T-stat is open.

It sounds like it opens just fine, but it may not be closing all the way.

JB05 said:

How do you know if the thermostat is stuck open when installed in the car? I would think feeling the lower radiator hose for any movement would be the only way. Mine seems to take a long time to warm up and I have the front of the radiator blocked off, and this is with the heater blower OFF. A fifteen mile drive through the suburbs, no highway, and my scan gauge will reach ~ 180 +, but I know the T-stat has not yet opened. Should it have opened under these conditions? On the highway the SG will sometimes reach 190 or 192 for a 18 mile trip, but again I can tell that the T-stat has not yet opened up. Only when I see an abrupt drop to 185F, then I know the T-stat is open.

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18 mile should be plenty to reach 190F. it sounds like your thermostat is not closing all the way. another sign is if you run the heat before it reaches 190 , it will take forever to get there

New T-stat is the answer here. Go with OEM as I've seen many generic T-stats be junk right out of the box on several different brands of vehicles.

It's not normal for it to not reach 90C, even with those temps. Mine's been fine at much lower temps.

Yes, new thermostat will help. But, with ambient temp at -25c(-10f).....it will take a few miles and not just idling engine to get the temps up. At - 35 or so, longer, and faster.. They do heat up, but nothing like a gasser....

MayorDJQ said:

Interesting idea. I don't see why you couldn't, but I don't think a jump pack would last long enough to heat up the coolant much. It might help enough to get a cold engine to start a little easier, but probably not to throw much heat.

The jumper pack I have is only good for 400 amps (DC). My Frostheater/zertostart is 1000 amps AC. The inverter will consume some power while doing thing, so I doubt my jumper pack would last even an hour. There are more powerful versions available.

If I can find the charger for the jump pack, I'll charge it up overnight tonight and plug it in tomorrow and see what happens. It's only supposed to get into the mid 30s overnight.

Edit: I don't think I'll be able to do this experiment as my inverter is only good for 750W.

Click to expand...

Um, some might consider this nitpicking, but you are confusing amps and watts, and the difference between them is very important.

You say your jumper pack is 400 amps. This is how much current it can put out, but says nothing about the total energy it contains. To start a car, you might draw 300 amps -- but probably for only 20 seconds or so. Unless it refused to start, of course, when you would wind up draining that jumper in vain.

You say your Frostheater is 1000 amps AC. I don't believe you. This is so much current it would take the entire capacity of the service of 5 houses to power it. You are talking about 120,000 watts. I believe your Frostheater is actually 1000 WATTS, which is 8.3 amps at 120 volts, or 83 amps at 12 volts.

I have a jumper pack, too. A small one, probably about the size of yours. The battery is a 7 amp-hour battery, meaning it can put out 7 amps for an hour. Actually, it can only put out 3.5 amps for an hour unless you totally kill it. It could power your Frostheater for perhaps 2.5 minutes. Less if you consider the losses of running an inverter.

And herein lies the essential problem with all those schemes for using the car battery to keep the the engine warm while you are off at work, or overnight: Your car battery might be able to provide 700 amps of cranking power when fully charged. But it only holds perhaps 100 amp hours of energy. If you only drain it to 50% charge, you can only power that 1000 watt Frostheater for about a half hour. At that point, you can still recharge the battery, but you likely won't be able to start your car, even with a warm engine.

So if you want to use such a scheme to keep your car warm over an 8 hour workday, better have 16 batteries in the trunk for the Frostheater, and a 17th under the hood to start the car. Not practical, IMHO, because those 17 batteries will weigh more than your VW is rated to carry.

Belly Pan

I don't have a belly pan heater, I have an inline block heater, but even if I had a belly pan I can't always plug my car in as outlets are not always available.

I called the VW dealership and asked for help. The tech told me the 2004/2005 models are cold blooded and there is nothing I can do...I don't know if I entirley believe that as I know people who have 04 models that don't seem to have this problem.

One think I keep noticing is the vehicle has to be going faster than 80km/hour in order to maintain the heat. If I can get the temp gauge to 90C after driving really long, within 5 minutes of going slower than 80km per hour the temp gage almost drops right to 30C

thermo is not closing