2006 tdi no power black smoke under 2000 rpm

I wanted to bring this to the top to ask if any of you that either have this problem, or can help with a solution will be at the TDIFest?

Well, I have replaced now the turbo and seems better but the problem is still there.
In my case I NEVER had black smoke, just poor power under 2000rpm.
As I found out later this seems to be caused by my DSG gearbox that will automatically reduce power to diminish any damage that might be caused to the gearbox.
Gearbox is to be changed next week on Wednesday.

Gigel said:

Well, I have replaced now the turbo and seems better but the problem is still there.
In my case I NEVER had black smoke, just poor power under 2000rpm.
As I found out later this seems to be caused by my DSG gearbox that will automatically reduce power to diminish any damage that might be caused to the gearbox.
Gearbox is to be changed next week on Wednesday.

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I've never had black smoke either. I also have a manual.

Since I changed the turbo everything seems much better anyway, that is for sure, but still I feel something is not right ... might be just me. The gearbox I have to change anyway as it makes some loud "clunk" noises when it downshifts.

jdhunt0 said:

I've never had black smoke either. I also have a manual.

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I just performed this on my 2006 Jetta TDI w/280k miles. It too is a manual trans.

I've had drivability problems with the EGR valve plugged in until I performed this adjustment. Around 1800-2200 RPMS the car would surge and I could hear the turbo spooling up but it just lacked the smooth delivery and occasionally would buck (only with the EGR plugged in). It would also die when trying to perform the basic settings 003 test with the EGR.

It now is much smoother and I can perform the EGR test and the car will not die. I had a spread of around 200 mbar difference at 9.9% vs 90.3%. I set it around 90mbar difference and it really does run much better.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to bring this to light. I was ready to replace the EGR valve and now feel it is no longer necessary.

ESA31.8T said:

I just performed this on my 2006 Jetta TDI w/280k miles. It too is a manual trans.

I've had drivability problems with the EGR valve plugged in until I performed this adjustment. Around 1800-2200 RPMS the car would surge and I could hear the turbo spooling up but it just lacked the smooth delivery and occasionally would buck (only with the EGR plugged in). It would also die when trying to perform the basic settings 003 test with the EGR.

It now is much smoother and I can perform the EGR test and the car will not die. I had a spread of around 200 mbar difference at 9.9% vs 90.3%. I set it around 90mbar difference and it really does run much better.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to bring this to light. I was ready to replace the EGR valve and now feel it is no longer necessary.

Click to expand...

I had suspected the EGR first, so I have blocked it off in order to help effeminate the problem. That has not helped. I have about a 20 mbar difference.

VCDS says you should have a min of 80mbar difference between the two.

It sounds like yours needs to be turned out counter clockwise a bit.

My car has the same symptoms. Looks like it's the EGR cooler problem I've seen others have.

Scott

I need to know where to find this Stop screw. I've looked and couldn't figure out if it is attached to a long screw that is attached to the actuator I think. there is a nut on the top and a nut on the bottom of this long screw. do I loosen the top nut first, then tighten the bottom nut clockwise. thus moving the stop screw in. I have a 244.8 bar difference and it is rough all the way up to 2000 rpm then black smoke. I would really like to take care of this this weekend. If anyone can point and shoot a couple of photos, that would help me greatly. Thanks!

@ DanG144 - since I've change out the RCV valve for my compressor. AC been working great ever since. Thanks again for your help!!

I will try to post some photos.
I think I have a BRM turbo loose in the shop right now.
This is a miserable job to do in the car.

Please be aware that 3 folks have broken the stop screw mounting ear off of their turbo doing this job. A piece of cast iron sticking out from a cast iron shell that rapidly heats up and cools off can get hairline cracks at the mounting point.

I recently had a 2005.5 head off for head gasket replacement. I did not get a chance to see the car run before working on it, but took a chance and rotated the stop screw in 1.5 turns while it was easy to get to. This lowered the position output at full vacuum from 100 to 92%. With a little extra work to ensure the EGR flow would go all the way to zero the car runs very well now.

BRM turbo adjustment

I would start off by gathering tools:
- safety glasses since you are working directly over your eyes, and looking up.
- a 3 mm internal hex (allen) bit, the longer the better
- a 10 mm deepwell thin wall 1/4" drve socket. You may need to thin the wall further, in order to fit around the 10 mm lock nut without being held off by the oil drain flange.
- all the 1/4" drive extensions you own, 24" total is not too much.
- a 1/4" wobble extension.
- VCDS (optional but highly recommended - otherwise you are making blind adjustments.)
- mityvac hand vacuum pump or equivalent, with hoses to fit turbo actuator (3mm ID, I think.)

Some folks have had to remove the bolts from the oil drain flange or even remove the oil drain line completely to access the set screw and lock nut; some have not.
you must have your turbo oil drain line installed to run the engine.

Next know the risks of what you are about to do. You are making adjustments on a limit switch stop set screw that should be made at the factory. You are never supposed to adjust this. Adjusting this negates your warranty.

Another risk is that at least 3 people that I know of have broken off the limit stop mounting flange on the early BRM turbos when they went to make this adjustment. They were all competent wrenches; this can happen to you as well. Two shops replaced the turbos. One owner fabricated his own stop screw mount that mounted on the turbo drain line and flange. In any case this will ruin your day completely.

Captions are below the photos.


View as if from the top of the engine. Oil supply and air lines removed.


View as if from the bottom of the engine, oil drain line removed. Lock nut and setscrew visible on the engine side of the oil drain flange.




View from the top and car left (maybe 7 feet tall standing near the air filter housing, sort of as if you could see through the head



This is a view you would really love to have, but it is looking aft, and you would have to look through the head to see this. Down is to the left in this photo. A long hex bit has been inserted into the set screw. In this view you can also see the two lock nuts that adjust the turbo actuator motor locking nuts - the ones you have to move to set initial movement vacuum to 5" Hg.


it is easy to unlock and adust on the bench. You wish you could do this on the car. Note that the oil drain line flange interferes a lot. Very thinwall 10 mm socket or crowsfoot required to unlock the nut. The set screw is 3mm internal hex.

Highly recommended - adjust the turbo cracking pressure to 5" hg mercury before proceeding further.

Optional but recommended: Start the car and do basic settings test 011, charge control, with a vacuum gauge teed into the actuator line so you can read the vacuum levels. Log the max and min readings of vacuum and charge. Some ECUs will let you see turbo position while doing this; if you can log the turbo max and min positions as well.

1)Start up VCDS, read measured value block 43 field 2 with no vacuum and note the turbo reading - it should be 0%, more or less. Set the computer next to you under the car, where you can read it.

2) Now apply 24" hg vacuum to your turbo actuator. Note MVB 43-2 again. It should be near 100%. Leave the vacuum applied.

3) Reach up with your 10 MM thinwall socket and unlock the locknut. You may have to grind the socket wall thinner. Just get it broken loose; don't go turning it.

4) Now reach up with your 3mm hex bit, insert it into the set screw, now spin the locknut off about 2 turns, then turn the set screw in about 1 turn. I turned mine in 1.5 turns, and changed the setting from 100% to 92%.

5) Note the VCDS reading. While holding the set screw in position, spin the lock nut up snug with your fingertips.

6) Tighten the locknut. 11 ft lbs should be enough. This is little girly forces, not manly man forces.

7) Ensure the VCDS reading is what you intend.

8) Start the car, hook up your turbo actuator to its normal line (tee in your vacuum gauge if you can) and do basic settings test 011, charge control. Ensure you still have at least 80 mbar difference between the max and min mbar readings. I would say 80 is the absolute minimum, not the target (different than other more knowledgeable folks suggest) 150 to 200 is probably ok, anything over 200 may mean you want to adjust the set screw in some more. On some ECUs doing this test may reset or adjust the postion percent reading. I noticed on mine that after doing this test my turbo position at full vacuum read about 100% again - and I do not think the set screw moved.

9) Go for a test drive. See if your excessive lag, lots of smoke problem has been solved. Adjust again if needed.

I wish it was as easily done as it reads.

Good luck.

Remember, I warned you that you do this at your own risk.

DanG144

Coming to rescue again. Thanks for the pic. This makes a lot more sense than trying to figure it out. I appreciate you taking the time to take those photos. I read from this thread about taking out the turbo drain pipe to make the adjustment easier. Would u recommend using some kind of penetrating lubricant to loosen the lock nut before trying to loosen it? Also, I took off 90 degrees elbow hose from the exhaust to the intercooler. There's a slight bit of grease, is that normal because the EGR kicks the exhaust gas is being routed back into the system? I'm throw a CEL so I think the EGR may be dirty. One more thing, when you say 1 to 1.5 turn. Is that a complete 360 degree turn? I don't want to over do it. So I guess I'll try 1 turn. I think I probably have to put the turbo drain pipe back in before I can start the engine and run the basic settings?

Thanks Again,
Mike

Mike,
If you remove the drain pipe, you must reinstall it prior to running the engine.

One turn is indeed 360 degrees of rotation.

On the one I just did I turned it in 1.5 turns (about 8 or 9% on VCDS was my target change), and still ended up with a basic settings test 011 difference of 150 mbar. The engine runs very well and is very responsive- minimal lag. I have no idea how it was running before as the engine was not functional when I got it - I just did this percentage based adjustment based on experience with other BRMs. Elsewhere folks have reported turning the screw .5 to .75 turn and reducing the BST 011 difference from more than 300 to 80 mbar.

I like to use KROIL on exhaust components, but any other penetrating oil is much better than nothing. Putting the penetrating oil on for a few days in a row, then running the engine to produce vibration and heat cycles can also help.

The EGR is a constant source of problems for this engine, in my opinion. The programming is very agressive for it, and this allows it to cause problems with any MAF sensor drift, or even a very slight boost leak - like a nick in a charge air hose seal. The EGR valve operating mechanism itself is prone to get slopply and allow the valve not to fully close.

I would put in an EGR block off plate for testing, to ensure that your EGR valve is not leaking through the seat, allowing exhaust gases to recirc when no recirc is desired. You can form one out of 0.042" stainless steel that will slip into the joint and make a blank steel wall that will ensure no exhaust gas flow. I used a new gasket to get the dimensions to make my test plate, then opened up one side of the bolt holes so that it could slip into place. But you could make a serviceable one out of a rectangular piece of stock that would simply fit in between the bolt holes.

Loosen the three bolts about 4 turns each that hold the EGR to the intake manifold, leave your tool in the hardest to reach bolt. Loosen the two 6mm hex bolts that hold the flex pipe onto the bottom of the EGR about 3 turns each. (If anyone does this, and finds my estimates on bolt turns [or any other fact] is wrong please post that and pm me.) Then slip in your blocking plate, tighten the flex pipe bolts just snug, then back them off 1/2 turn, then tighten the bolts on the EGR valve to manifold, then the flex pipe bolts.

I really want to do this, but I think I need to wait until my TDI is no longer my daily driver. I don't want to be without a car due to a broken part.

Dan,

I'll just pick up an extra long extension to and 3mm hex allen to get to the screw. Once I'm done. will come back and post result. Thanks again. Is the EGR towards the back of the engine unlike the A4 which is on top??

The EGR is just downstream of the ASV, just like on the Mk IV, but it looks different. So rubber charge air pipe, ASV, EGR, intake manifold.

If you look under the ASV you will see the flex pipe coming from the cooler into the bottom of the EGR. That is the flange to loosen and slip the block off plate into.

after getting under the car. I realize that the heater hoses are in the way. so is the flex pipe to the egr I think. I'll have to try to get around it when it cools off.

@DanG144,

Finally, after the car cool off, getting the oil drain pipe and egr flex pipe out of the way. I was able to get the lock nut loose. I turn the set screw 1.25 turn (thought I might have loosen the set screw when I undid the lock nut). Put Everything back together. went for a drive. Car had no problem up thru 2000 rpm, no black smoke. I stopped and ran some test. Here are the results:

On Charge Pressure - Boost Pressure = 1071.0 mbar
Off Charge Pressure - Boost Pressure = 928.2 mbar
Difference = 142.8 mbar.

Much better than 244.8. I think I'll keep it there because I kept on dropping the screw into the engine compartment and takes me forever to find it. So I won't try to get that down to 80.0 mbar for the moment.

If anyone wants to know. Removing the Flex pipe to get to the drain pipe screws is easier when it is out of the way. Unless you have those wobble socket, which I didn't have. The flex pipe have 2 allen screws on one end uses #9, and the nuts on the other end is a 12mm socket. Make sure you keep the gasket because you'll need them.

The 2 bolt / star bolt holding the Turbo Drain pipe uses 40 star allen, the bolt that holds the drain pipe to frame is 13mm, and the Bolt going into the engine is a 27MM.

Car is much more responsive. I wonder why this ever happen??

https://picasaweb.google.com/113174...key=Gv1sRgCIC3nqbyvrSH_gE#5669593480208165634

Dan, I was under the car and wanted to know for sure if this is where you would put the blocking plate on to block the EGR from recirculating the exhaust gas back into intake.

Thanks,
Mike

Good job. Good Details. Did you happen to take any photos?

I think you will be fine with 150 mbar difference; I would not try for 80 mbar difference as I think that is the minimum acceptable value, not the target value.

I didn't take the any photos of the job because I thought your pics were pretty informative.
The photo I did take when I was under the car is the link on my last post. Wanted to know if that's the place where you would install block plate for egr. BTW, if I block the EGR, will it Trip a "Check engine light". Another question I have is How long does the BRM turbo tend to last? I have 170,000 miles on it now and was wondering if I need to start looking for a new one.

Thanks again!
Mike

I missed your last post, sorry. I cannot see the photos from that site.
I will try to look at it tonight from another computer.

Turbos can easily last 275k miles, or 40 kmiles.
I would not buy one, but would have a plan for when it fails - so you don't buy the wrong one in haste.
If you know some other folks in your area that have the same car - say a group of 3 or four, then it may make sense for you to go together and buy one for the group.

Maybe once per year you could check yours for axial and radial movement, to get an idea of when it is getting worn out.

When you install the blocking plate, unplug the EGR electrically.
This will prevent the system from trying to close the ASV in order to get the desired flow.
And yes, unless you get an offroad tune, you will have a check engine light.

Regarding post #139, yes that is where you want to put in a temporary block off plate to test your EGR. Placing one there, at the bottom of the EGR valve, assures no exhaust gases can make their way into the intake manifold. That flange is identical to both flanges on the BEW system.

Note that simply placing one there will not stop exhaust gases from escaping leaks on the system and putting soot and exhaust gases into the engine compartment.

To guarantee flow stops from both ends, you need two block off plates. The one on the exhaust manifold of the BRM is smaller in size than the BEW system plates.

Thanks DanG, would a new tune for EGR "blocked" be necessary to avoid Check engine light from triggering. I have tunes from Kerma and I think they can program that if I'm not mistaken.
Thanks,
Mike

If you are going to leave it blocked, then yes, a tune would be needed.

ok. Thanks

zleem60 said:

@DanG144,
I turn the set screw 1.25 turn (thought I might have loosen the set screw when I undid the lock nut).

Click to expand...

Did you turn the set screw in (clockwise) or out (counter-clockwise)
sorry if I missed that earlier.

EDIT: I see DanG144 says he turned in. I'm assuming you did the same?

Yes, from the viewpoint of the tool side, turn the screw in to shorten the travel of the lever.

I have a 2006 w/ manual trans and have 168K. I just started having this problem about 3 weeks ago and figured it was the fuel filter like a few others but quickly realized that wasn't it.

I don't have VCDS/VAG-COM and this seems to be a bit out of my league. Is there a link where I can try to find someone local to make this fix? I'd hate to take it to the dealer especially after reading this thread.. Any help is greatly appreciated.