New battery and car won't start!

I have a 96 B4 Passat wagon. The battery was getting weak and a cold morning this week finally killed the battery. Went and got another battery and put it in. Real easy installation, no problems there.

The problem is that now the car is clicking and buzzing from somewhere in the dash; a little red light is blinking just below the dash ( I thought this was part of the security system); the car has power, as the dash lights come on and the glow plugs cycle, but the car will not turn over. Nothing coming from the starter at all. Just lots of annoying buzzing and clicking.

And yes, I've heard of capacitance issues, so I pulled the cables off the battery and put them together for several hours to see if that would help. Nope, same problem.

I hope somebody has some ideas as to what to do?!

I am not familiar with your car, but in my realm of experience; the symtoms that you describe are similar to those of a weak (possibly corroded) connection at the battery terminals.

Because of the high resistance of a bad connection, there is a lot of resistance to the high amperage draw of a starter motor and a corresponding drop in voltage at the starter motor. That is why it won't turn. There isn't enough voltage at the starter motor for it to turn, but there is enough for the relay to operate briefly (cycling on and off causes the chatter).

However, other devices that don't demand high amperage do not experience the same voltage drop and "appear" to operate.

Check your battery terminals and see if they need cleaning. Check the voltage of the battery as well as the voltage after the battery (especially the starter motor) to see where the voltage drops when you try to start the car. If there is a large voltage drop, then you know that the resistance that is causing it is somewhere between where you are testing it and the battery. Work backward from there. In the end it could also be a bad battery.

Jack Frost said:

the symtoms that you describe are similar to those of a weak (possibly corroded) connection at the battery terminals..

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I would add that BOTH ends of the cables should be checked.

Put a voltmeter on the battery terminals, read the voltage. You might have gotten a new, but dead battery. Should read about 12.6. Turn headlights on, should read above 12.

Clean the ground connection at the chassis where the negative cable attaches. Also, some cables get internal breaks in the wire strands and even though they look fine can lead to this type of situation.

Seems the original battery may not have been your entire problem since this is simply a more severe version of what led you to buy the battery. Also, the connection of the battery at the starter should be cleaned off as well.

Battery terminals and cables are clean, cables intact. The battery was the problem, as previous to this I could jump the car and get the car to start. There just wasn't enough amps being stored to crank the car over in cold temps. Warm temps I could crank it over and it would start. So, the battery was bad, but the posts and cables are in real good shape.

Any other ideas?

Ski in NC said:

Put a voltmeter on the battery terminals, read the voltage. You might have gotten a new, but dead battery. Should read about 12.6. Turn headlights on, should read above 12.

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Did that---fully charged.

Guys, the problem has to have something to do with the clicking and buzzing that's going on. The car doesn't normally do that and shouldn't be doing that with a simple battery change UNLESS there is a system onboard that has to be reset, or protected somehow when changing out the battery. For example, the radio has gone into 'safe' mode--which is expected and now I'll have to enter the code to get the radio up and running again.

Are there any other systems like that on these B4's?

I've only had that clicking or buzzing when the battery was low--or, THE IGNITION SWITCH was bad. Do you have no headlights, too when you try to start the car? A bad ignition switch can behave like a bad battery and cause the car not to start, yet have electricity to other parts of the car. Can you get the car to start if you wiggle the key a little and then try? If you have tried all the obvious things with the battery, I would say ignition switch or the ever-dreaded worn out relay 109. Do a search and you can find some info on these.

The clicking and buzzing is perfectly normal for a defunct battery.

What you are hearing is the relay for the starter. When it clicks on, the starter motor is energized but since it can't turn over, all it does is drain the battery. Once the battery is drained sufficiently (a fraction of a second), it loses its ability to energize the relay so it clicks off. The battery restores some voltage and a fraction of a second later has enough voltage to energize the relay so it clicks on.

And this goes on until you either stop trying to stop the car or the battery gives up the ghost.

I agree with Jack Frost. If your connections are clean, cables good then take your new battery back and have them check-and-charge it....or just have them replace it. If you get a second battery have them check it on their machine (I am assuming you bought it at an auto parts store) to make sure it is fully charged.

Paul.

You have it down to battery or cables. Don't forget that cables have at least two ends and can be defective internally.

sfierz said:

I've only had that clicking or buzzing when the battery was low--or, THE IGNITION SWITCH was bad. Do you have no headlights, too when you try to start the car? A bad ignition switch can behave like a bad battery and cause the car not to start, yet have electricity to other parts of the car. Can you get the car to start if you wiggle the key a little and then try? If you have tried all the obvious things with the battery, I would say ignition switch or the ever-dreaded worn out relay 109. Do a search and you can find some info on these.

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The ignition switch was replaced in October and has been working fine. Hmm, might have to look at relay 109, although why it would suddenly die escapes me.

Jack Frost said:

The clicking and buzzing is perfectly normal for a defunct battery.

What you are hearing is the relay for the starter. When it clicks on, the starter motor is energized but since it can't turn over, all it does is drain the battery. Once the battery is drained sufficiently (a fraction of a second), it loses its ability to energize the relay so it clicks off. The battery restores some voltage and a fraction of a second later has enough voltage to energize the relay so it clicks on.

And this goes on until you either stop trying to stop the car or the battery gives up the ghost.

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So, if I were to stick the old battery back in and jump it, the car should start--right?

I'll try your suggestion this week and see. The odd thing is that the clicking is coming from the dash, and the red alarm light that sits just below the dash on the left side of the steering wheel is flashing. Why would a starter relay kick that system off? And why would the starter relay start firing off without the key even being in the switch?

I didn't read all of the thread, but have the grounds been cleaned? Similar to my experiences for my first winter until I cleaned the grounds.

What battery did you get? What amp hours?

I've heard people mentioning the cleaning of grounds...what about the main engine ground, on the transmission?

I had an issue, where the engine wouldn't start, when it was hot. Turns out the main engine ground had oxidized and was high resistnace at engine temperature.

Clean the ground lug, the nut, pull the stud, and clean both sides of it. Before replacing it, coat ALL electrical surfaces with "noalux". It's an anti-oxidation coating for aluminum house wiring. I have not had an issue in 2.5 years.

Tony

Well, I finally gave up and had the car towed over to Automotion. As it turns out, the alarm system on this car is not from VW, it's an aftermarket alarm. When the battery was disconnected and then reconnected, the alarm went 'on', and turned off the ignition switch! Once the alarm was disabled, the car fired right up.

So, to all who encounter a car that won't start, look also at the alarm system!

Yea, there are lots of problems with after market alarm/security systems. Even the OEMs have problems, but it seems they have far less.

loneviking said:

Well, I finally gave up and had the car towed over to Automotion. As it turns out, the alarm system on this car is not from VW, it's an aftermarket alarm. When the battery was disconnected and then reconnected, the alarm went 'on', and turned off the ignition switch! Once the alarm was disabled, the car fired right up.

So, to all who encounter a car that won't start, look also at the alarm system!

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Is that what the flashing red light was for?

steelmb said:

Is that what the flashing red light was for?

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Exactly!