Aftermarket or upgraded Ball Joints

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Hey All;

So I'm getting sick of changing out ball joints. I've gone through 2 sets in about 20k miles out here. Both were Febi. This last set lasted about 6k. Our roads are horrible out here, all the expansion bridges, and just absolutely nothing is maintained, so the car takes a beating.

Do they make an aftermarket, burly solution for the MKIV's (There are 3 big companies that offer aftermarket BJ's for my Cummins that shouldn't need to be changed out again...) or are we stuck with OEM or a company that claims to meet the OEM quality standards?

I want to be done with this for a while. I've searched and found a few companies that make the OEM style ball joint, just wondering what's out there and what has worked for people that are in a similar situation.

Just to clarify ahead of time, boots were not torn on installation, no hammers were used to install. I've gotten decent changing the dang things out I've done it so much.

Thanks in advance!
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
If Febi ball joints only last that long I wouldn't use them again. :(
How many miles are on the car?
If the original VW ones lasted that many miles (less the 20K) there must be a difference.
Do you but things based only on price?
Did the box say made in China?
ID-Parts has them for your car made by Rein Automotive.
I've just started using them and I do like what I've got so far. (timing belt kit and some electronics)
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
If Febi ball joints only last that long I wouldn't use them again. :(
How many miles are on the car?
If the original VW ones lasted that many miles (less the 20K) there must be a difference.
Do you but things based only on price?
Did the box say made in China?
ID-Parts has them for your car made by Rein Automotive.
I've just started using them and I do like what I've got so far. (timing belt kit and some electronics)
There's 206k on the car.
The PO had his work done on the car by a reputable shop around here. Usually he had things replaced with OEM. Since the ownership of the car, the first time I changed them out, I don't think they were OEM. I went with Febi because I had heard good things. And it was through a vendor

Do I buy things only on price? Not sure what that means. I buy things that will last so I don't have to do them again. I treat my vehicles very well. I'd rather buy an $800 set of ball joints say for my truck than do the job 4 times and spend $200+ each time on parts. Time is also money right? One and done. OEM or aftermarket is never a debate. If there is a quality part that exceeds (or meets) what OEM can offer, I'll look that route.

I've bought many items from ID parts in the past. Actually just re did my A/C system with parts they sell. But before I jump in and buy that brand I'm trying to get some real world feedback from people who have had success with a manufacturer that does well under harsh conditions. Thought Febi was good but they seem to be more hit and miss...
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Here is a five year old post from an expert.
When I first read your post I thought alignment or maybe other suspension component(s), but maybe it is just a QC issues, as Oilhammer eludes to.
Ah I did come across that post.
Alignment issues are ruled out. Every time I've replaced them I've checked the alignment and if it's not acceptable my OCD makes me go get an alignment.

So far OEM is in the lead I guess...
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Does anyone have any experience with the aftermarket greaseable version of our ball joints? I'm hesitant with Moog products but every BJ I've ever come across has the option to grease them except this car...

https://www.amazon.com/Moog-K90355-Ball-Joint/dp/B000C545LS



I can't really see a downside to this? I'm not sure if it's going to add longevity under harsh and rough driving conditions though...
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
I've used Moog parts in the past on other cars.
Seemed OK back then.
ID-Parts is $19.95 and a vender here.
I stopped looking for the cheapest price years ago after I had to replace all my brakes & rotors shortly after I installed them.
I also replaced my engine temperature sensor after I caught the China one indicating the coolant was something like 175 (F) below 0.
I didn't think the ECU could indicate that.
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
I've used Moog parts in the past on other cars.
Seemed OK back then.
ID-Parts is $19.95 and a vender here.
I stopped looking for the cheapest price years ago after I had to replace all my brakes & rotors shortly after I installed them.
I also replaced my engine temperature sensor after I caught the China one indicating the coolant was something like 175 (F) below 0.
I didn't think the ECU could indicate that.
I think you missed my last post...I don't care about cost, I care about longevity. I'm not sure I'll trust those 19.95 ball joints, they're going to be on par with the quality of the Febis...I would gladly spend $60 on a ball joint that would last. I'd be willing to bet I could destroy that ball joint, even if ID parts sells it...
Lemforder ball joints fit and work perfectly, and last as long as the originals, because that is who made them.
I will look into this brand. Can you speak of the abuse they can take?
The Moog's seem to be the only balljoint that offers a zerk. Not sure if this would have any benefit, although I'll take quality materials, machining and tolerances over a greasable joint that will develop slop
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
No, because I don't abuse my cars. However, I can tell you I have probably installed over 500 of them over the years and I do not know of any that failed again. Most of these cars go 200k+ miles on their original ball joints here. My Beetle still has its originals at 275k.... and I just put new struts, sway bar bushings, control arm bushings, and tie rods on it too. I left the original ball joints alone. They are still fine.

There is not that much stress on these joints, they are not load carrying. If you have repeated failures, they are inferior parts and/or are being installed incorrectly. Period.

I service lots of courier cars, that get driven constantly and driven I'd say pretty hard. And from the amount of blown tires and bent wheels they endure, I'd say they get plenty of abuse. But ball joint failures are not at all common.
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
No, because I don't abuse my cars. However, I can tell you I have probably installed over 500 of them over the years and I do not know of any that failed again. Most of these cars go 200k+ miles on their original ball joints here. My Beetle still has its originals at 275k.... and I just put new struts, sway bar bushings, control arm bushings, and tie rods on it too. I left the original ball joints alone. They are still fine.
There is not that much stress on these joints, they are not load carrying. If you have repeated failures, they are inferior parts and/or are being installed incorrectly. Period.
I service lots of courier cars, that get driven constantly and driven I'd say pretty hard. And from the amount of blown tires and bent wheels they endure, I'd say they get plenty of abuse. But ball joint failures are not at all common.
I didn't say that I abuse my cars. The suspension is abused due to road conditions.
I do all my own work on all my vehicles, my boat and motorcycle, and sled. I use quality products.

FWIW, the first replacement joints I bought were Febi's...these are the BJ's I bought last time from ECS tuning, which are the ones that recently failed:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-trw-parts/ball-joint-left/1j0407365c~trw/

For $33 a pop, they should last I would think.

The roads out here are atrocious. You can't avoid the expansion joints. There are extremely deep potholes that sometimes can't be avoided. The cobblestone has deviations of a few inches to the rock next to it. The construction yields transitions to torn up pavement that are damn near vertical. Control arm bushings have all been replaced with quality bushings. Suspension is very tight, alignment is spot on, tire wear is even, tires are rotated every 3k. Hell this car has never even seen a dirt road yet.

These failures are not due to bad or incorrect installation. I have been the only one to touch this vehicle since I've owned it as far as work. The boots are protected and the joints are not over-stressed trying to jam the stud up in the knuckle. Everything is loose when installed, snugged, torqued to spec. I'm confident with my mechanical abilities.

That being said, I'll look into lemforder, or OEM. I would just hate to purchase OEM joints to have them fail again in under 10k, I'm fairly surprised no manufacturer offers a better than "OEM" solution.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
I do abuse my cars, but not by purpose.
Since you're having this issue you want these
ID Parts
I'd shop for a better price.
!stVWparts
The shipping will add to the cost.
Also- Try your local dealer, bargain with them. Even open a commercial account.
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
I do abuse my cars, but not by purpose.
Since you're having this issue you want these
ID Parts
I'd shop for a better price.
!stVWparts
The shipping will add to the cost.
Also- Try your local dealer, bargain with them. Even open a commercial account.
Thanks Bob, back to OEM it looks like:rolleyes:
If I can get 100k out of them I'd be happy. Heck, if I can get 50 k out of them it's worth it.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I'm fairly surprised no manufacturer offers a better than "OEM" solution.
Because as I have stated, it is not a problem area for these cars. If it were, I'd know about it. I'm under them every day. These cars certainly have their weak spots, ball joints are not one of them.

Try a different brand, and make certain they are installed correctly. Quite frankly I cannot see how you could install one of these "wrong", but maybe something is not seated correctly on the ball stud, or the ball stud bore itself in the carrier is not right.

For that matter, how are you checking them to come to the conclusion that they are bad? They are non load carrying, so they should not have any play.

There are bad roads all over, I doubt it is all because of that. And my Golf used to get driven down four miles of dirt and gravel roads every weekend, with lots of washboard and holes and washouts all over the place. I do my best to go slow, but I am sure it has taken plenty of hits. Its joints are still fine, and I've put 140k miles on the car since I had it, and it had over 380k on it then. I check that at every single service when I rotate the tires, along with everyone else's.
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Quite frankly I cannot see how you could install one of these "wrong", but maybe something is not seated correctly on the ball stud, or the ball stud bore itself in the carrier is not right.

For that matter, how are you checking them to come to the conclusion that they are bad? They are non load carrying, so they should not have any play.
I agree here. With the tapered stud it's kind of hard to install these incorrectly. They "self-seat".

Yes they don't carry any load, but they are a critical "link" in the suspension. Subjected to shock loading is really hard on materials. Hardened materials such as the stud ball in this application could have material failure due to this. IT would almost be better for them if they were loaded.

As far as the symptoms that have risen due to the failures, both times it was a noticeable "clunk" while turning the wheel while backing up first thing in the morning. That same "clunk" would repeat itself when turning into a parkinglot from the street (hitting the slightly raised portion of the drive). The first time I replaced them it was a no brainer, the seal had failed and all the grease was out on one side. The clunk depended on which side the wheel was turned (although it was easy to distinguish this time since when the right wheel hit the transition from street to parkinglot the "clunk" repeated itself. The last time I replaced BJ's, all clunking went away.

Originally I thought it was a CV going, but the failures I've had on those have a clunk which is rhythmic to the rpm's of the vehicle. This was consistent for both sides that failed.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Chinesium ball joints are a fail on these cars. What mine did was made a cracking sound when going over a driveway entrance in the middle of a turn.
With mine, I had curbed the R/F real hard bending the ball joint and LCA. I was in a hurry so I had my tire shop replaced the parts and they used O'Reilly's parts.

The ball joint didn't even last 30K miles before it started making the previously mentioned cracking sound.:mad: I had it replace by a reputable shop (Zantech) and they put in a Lemforder.

Lets see. Two ball joints and Two alignments before the problem was fixed. Seems like using garbage parts always cost more in the long run. The undamaged factory original on the L/H is still fine at 183K miles...................
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
OK, so I am not convinced you had a bad joint anyway then. You check them by grabbing the front of the wheel, with the car off the ground, and pull/push in and out. Grab it around the 7 to 8 o'clock position.

It is very possible your "clunk" was from something else, and the act of unloading the suspension and moving things around to replace the joint made the noise go away for a while. A strut mount, control arm mount, subframe mounting, or even an outer CV joint, could make a clunk under those situations.

I would suggest having a professional at least LOOK at your car when you have a noise. Not trying to be an ass (although I am good at it...my wife tells me often :p ) but I see many DIYrs throw parts at things unnecessarily without actually diagnosing the problem in the first place. We see that play out on these very forums constantly. The act of replacing a ball joint on these cars is pretty easy, nuts and bolts, no rocket science involved. But it does take a bit more understanding to know WHY it is getting replaced.

A more comprehensive objective assessment of your car's suspension as a whole may reveal something else altogether. And it may be 'slap-you-in-the-face' obvious to someone who works on cars for a living.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Quite simply, the ball joint that was worn out was a Chinisium ball joint from O'Reilly's. It was replaced by a very competent German repair shop in the Seattle area called Zantech with a Lemforder ball joint. I kept the Chinisium joint that was removed and it has about 1/4 inch up and down play in it.

I have been turning wrenches for some thirty odd years on cars and mostly on gas turbine powered aircraft and didn't have the time or specific knowledge to make an assessment of the problem that I was comfortable with. Zantech's assessment and subsequent repair were spot on.

Checking a ball joint on some cars can be problematic. What can happen is that if the unsprung weight is not supported, the spring pushing down on the LCA can load the ball joint in a way that wear is not easily checked. I wasn't really sure about that point so I went to someone that was.

I hope the above is a little more clear................
 
Last edited:

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
I would suggest having a professional at least LOOK at your car when you have a noise. Not trying to be an ass (although I am good at it...my wife tells me often :p ) but I see many DIYrs throw parts at things unnecessarily without actually diagnosing the problem in the first place. We see that play out on these very forums constantly. The act of replacing a ball joint on these cars is pretty easy, nuts and bolts, no rocket science involved.
Not sure if this is aimed at me or the previous post, but I do know how to check a ball joint using that method. That being said, without a second set of eyes actually watching the joint, it is hard to tell the difference between a wheel bearing failure or a ball joint failure using this method (unless there are other noises when a wheel bearing is far along it's death path). I've had that method test negative for a ball joint because it was actually frozen from the boot being torn, moisture working it's way in, and creating a nice rust layer.

Take it to a "professional"? Hell I don't trust anyone more than myself to work on my vehicles. Not being an ass either, but at least I know if I do it, I do it right. I know that I torque everything correctly, and that it goes back together the way that it came apart. These things are not hard to troubleshoot. There is really no justification for cost when I am fully capable and knowledgeable about my own vehicles, as well this place is a great resource (As well as the service manual). Heck I re did my A/C system (something I wasn't familiar about before combing through all the threads on here) for around $125 after all the troubleshooting and diagnosis told me that my system was fine. The components that had to have failed were internal to the system and had no way of testing, I just had to buy the replacements (RCV internal to the compressor and the TXV for safe measures).

I have to take the car in when I need new tires to mount and balance. Even when I request the correct pressures and point to the psi listings on the door jams, they still get it wrong.

To your point of throwing money at things before diagnosing, I've seen it happen, and I was very guilty of it early on in my wrenching years. Although I'm not perfect, I've gotten better at it. As you stated before, ball joints are simple, and inexpensive. If I replace them, well, I have brand new joints and it rules that out. Seeing that this "clunk" mimics to a T what was happening on my last balljoint failure I'll go this route first. If it isn't, I'll move forward with the troubleshooting process and use the forum as a resource.

Still sounds like Lemforder or OEM at this point. Cost is different on the two, but OEM has proven itself to last, as well as Lem it seems.

I'll update this thread once I get them replaced.

Oh and I do make rockets for a living:p
 
Last edited:

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Quite simply, the ball joint that was worn out was a Chinisium ball joint from O'Reilly's. It was replaced by a very competent German repair shop in the Seattle area called Zantech with a Lemforder ball joint. I kept the Chinisium joint that was removed and it has about 1/4 inch up and down play in it.

Checking a ball joint on some cars can be problematic. What can happen is that if the unsprung weight is not supported, the spring pushing down on the LCA can load the ball joint in a way that wear is not easily checked. I wasn't really sure about that point so I went to someone that was.

I hope the above is a little more clear................
Lol I wasn't sure who that comment was aimed at either so I clarified as well:D

Sounds like you're in my neck of the woods also. I live in Lakewood and work south of Seattle in Kent. I've heard there's a couple of very reputable shops around the area just have never had my vehicle in one.
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Unfortunately, the Validation testing I used to do didn't include blowing up the finished product so any minor mistake you might have made was scrutinized under a microscope. We would launch them out with the expectation that they would safely return.:D

I'm retired now which in some ways is kinda strange because you have a life time of experience under your belt with no place to use it.

Except for tires and alignments, I do all of my own maintenance and Zantech is the one and only time I have let someone else work on my car.
 
Last edited:

snakeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Location
Montreal, Canada
TDI
2003 Jetta and Wagon, GLS 5sp
Few observations from shopping for ball joints recently:

Meyle actually has a Meyle HD line, where they claim the ball head on their ball joints are larger. ECS tuning sells these, curious if they actually are heavy duty, since from the outside on the pics they just look like regular ball joints. They come with 4 year warranty.

Idparts has a Spidan-GKN control arm with bushings and supposedly HD ball joint already installed. Not sure what exactly makes this ball joint HD, as on the Spidan-GKN one that's sold separately, there is no such mention. It also appears that Spidan-GKN is Sidem (the arm in question is actually branded Sidem on the pics), and Sidem ball joints also have green colored rings on them. Looking elsewhere, Sidem ball joints are not labeled "HD"; only place they seem to be is in the idparts description of the control arm.

Lemförder, previously made in Germany, are now made in China.
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
I have a set of those IDparts control arms with the pre installed TT bushings and ball joints you mentioned. Haven't had any issues since install
 

snakeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Location
Montreal, Canada
TDI
2003 Jetta and Wagon, GLS 5sp
I have a set of those IDparts control arms with the pre installed TT bushings and ball joints you mentioned. Haven't had any issues since install
Sidem/Spidan-GKN seem to be good quality parts, made in Europe, at a lower price, so I'm sure they'll last. I just don't think there's anything HD about those specific ball joints.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Sidem/Spidan-GKN seem to be good quality parts, made in Europe, at a lower price, so I'm sure they'll last. I just don't think there's anything HD about those specific ball joints.
I think that's what I had installed on mine. Almost positive I got my LCAs from ID parts. Anyways, I've been chasing down an alignment problem and also swapped out the spindle. Lo and behold, the boot is destroyed on my ball joints that came with the LCAs. Thankfully, I had a spare set in one of my toolboxes.

I'll probably take @oilhammer 's advice and get Lemforder in the future.
 
Top