Turbo died finally? Vid inside. Please help

Lightflyer1

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As I said in your other thread it might be cheaper to buy a used engine and install it instead, with all the work you need done. Seen some for sale for $500 at one time or another.
 

fouillard13

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wow. thats cheap. something to consider for sure..... run em till they blow, get it towed, and keep throwing used ones in for $500 a pop and let the kid make some labor money!!!! tempting....

im curious to see whats wrong. why would I have so much smoke under the hood? is there a hole in my turbo or what? it almost sounded/seemed to be coming from my lower EGR area.


again, I was 2000 miles from home in southern california 2 years ago and my lower ego hose broke, so I did a home made EGR plate on a sunday in the parking lot with what supplies were laying around the local napa. they had a piece of tin sheeting off their exterior wall about 2mm thick that I cut out and made block off plates. how much heat would that be exposed to? any chance those block off plates I made had a hole burnt through them or something?
 

VLS_GUY

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That Ebay vendor with the cheap new turbo worships at the one true church of the divine Prothe. Superspeedworldshop sells Chinesium for all makes and models. Here is a link to a discussion of the type of turbo kit various importers sell on Ebay: https://forums.nicoclub.com/the-definitive-ebay-no-name-chinese-cheap-turbo-kit-thread-t321821.html
If you want to rebuild your current turbo make sure it is fact rebuildable. Make sure the company doing the build uses good parts and does a very good job of balancing the rotating assemblies or you will be sorry. Some of the local reputable shops have been rebuilding turbos and modifying them for greater flow due to problems with new VNT-17 turbos they experienced.

Personally I would look at using a Garrett PD140 turbo. It was used on the European 140 PD cars and is priced similar to a stock replacement.
Have you priced any parts though the guy from Nelson, BC posting on this site to see what he can get and at what cost?
 
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flee

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again, I was 2000 miles from home in southern california 2 years ago and my lower ego hose broke, so I did a home made EGR plate on a sunday in the parking lot with what supplies were laying around the local napa. they had a piece of tin sheeting off their exterior wall about 2mm thick that I cut out and made block off plates. how much heat would that be exposed to? any chance those block off plates I made had a hole burnt through them or something?
A plate that thin would never seal on its own. Did you sandwich it with the EGR?
Either way it could have loosened up and started leaking.
 

fouillard13

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That Ebay vendor with the cheap new turbo worships at the one true church of the divine Prothe. Superspeedworldshop sells Chinesium for all makes and models. Here is a link to a discussion of the type of turbo kit various importers sell on Ebay: https://forums.nicoclub.com/the-definitive-ebay-no-name-chinese-cheap-turbo-kit-thread-t321821.html
If you want to rebuild your current turbo make sure it is fact rebuildable. Make sure the company doing the build uses good parts and does a very good job of balancing the rotating assemblies or you will be sorry. Some of the local reputable shops have been rebuilding turbos and modifying them for greater flow due to problems with new VNT-17 turbos they experienced.

Personally I would look at using a Garrett PD140 turbo. It was used on the European 140 PD cars and is priced similar to a stock replacement.
Have you priced any parts though the guy from Nelson, BC posting on this site to see what he can get and at what cost?

Prothe!!! thats the guys name. I knew there was someone to avoid like the plague, I just couldnt remember who.


I dont think id ever throw a chinese turbo in. ive played the cheap chinese game in the passed, lots. with electronics too. never again. the lack of quality on some of those parts is so bad its almost impressive.


I honestly think im just gonna get the guy to throw on a used turbo (his least used and best one) that he can get from his boneyard until im back on my feet again and can really take care of it. even if I gotta pay for labor twice, time and money is an issue right now. how much labor is it to swap a turbo? 2-3 hours id guess?





check out some of his pics.... im pretty confident the guy knows what hes doing and a turbo swap is the easiest thing hes done in a while. what do you guys think?


I really think he should be on the list of approved/trusted TDI mechanics myself.


https://www.facebook.com/ktechtuning/
 

fouillard13

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A plate that thin would never seal on its own. Did you sandwich it with the EGR?
Either way it could have loosened up and started leaking.



yes. it was basically the same thickness of the OEM gasket. happened in August 2015. so its been there 3 years and 4 months now. I took the OEM gasket out from each end of the upper and lower EGR piping, and installed my 4 custom special ones. exact same dimensions of the OEM gasket, BUT with no hole going through it to stop the flow of gasses. a "pancake blind" or slip in blind we call it in the oil field. same concept.






 
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VLS_GUY

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Thanks for the link to Ktech. Something to keep in mind while I am in Alberta. Remember you may have to get a complete engine. If the head needs work engine replacement may be the cheap way to go. I don't think many BRMs in decent shape are availabe with turbos in North America. If a complete engine is needed Frans looks like a good option.
 

fouillard13

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used kp39, 136,000 mile (220,000km)


$750 installed ($550 USD) he said.




cam and head rebuild (Camshaft, Lifters, Camshaft, oil seals, New bolts, All new bearings)is $1250 CAD/950$ USD.



thoughts?
 

Lightflyer1

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You aren't doing the cam without the complete timing belt are you? That would be foolish. At least another $350 US for the complete kit.
 
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fouillard13

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didnt know they had to be done in a pair. so maybe ill wait and do it all at once. I will ask about that. not sure why he didnt mention timing belt too. maybe he doesnt know its near the end of its life. very good to know!! thanks.


btw. im doing just turbo now.


then cam (and I guess timing belt) sometime in Feb/march!


this is the kit ill get if he allowed me to supply my own parts: https://www.idparts.com/high-mileage-timing-belt-kit-bew-p-5137.html. I will probably get the new cam sprocket, pulley, and gaskets. and not too sure about the motor mount. if I remember right... the last guy that did my timing belt didnt follow procedures (something like 80 ft lbs THEN 1/4 turn) he went right to 120 or something ft lbs and cracked a mount that I had to pay to replace...wasnt happy about that. is that the $159 motor mount theyre referring to? in which case, I replaced that last time.


also, apparently theyre only good for 80,000 miles which is 128,000km.... so im 2000km over the interval. damn. cam, head, timing belt is $2000, turbo is $750. damn near put $3000 into a car that I paid $4000 for 4 years ago!! after this, what else is there for expensive parts that can fail? my fuel system hasnt been touched yet... injectors, fuel/injector pump, etc...
 
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Lightflyer1

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They don't have to be done at the same time but would be dumb not to as you have to duplicate some of the work when doing either. Why pay labor to do the work twice?

From your description it sounds like you may have lots of deferred maintenance that needs to be done at some point. You can't rationalize it as you are putting $thousands into a cheap car. If you like the car you have to look at it as cheaper than buying a new (another) one. Better on time maintenance will stop you from getting hit all at once trying to repair everything at once.
 
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fouillard13

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yeah I hear ya on the double repair thing. I may as well do it right/all and quit cheaping out. its time I pay my dues and quit neglecting it so im going to just get it all done (soon.. when I can afford it). its been good to me and I like the car and hate change so id like to keep it alive until at least 500,000!!

until then, im gonna pray the timing belt doesnt blow. I dont anticipate many long trips so should only rack up 5000 more km at the most on it before I bite the bullet on the head, cam, and timing belt in a few weeks. I am a bit of a gambler/risk taker for sure!

I can either spend $3500 to get this one back fully repaired and good for another 200,000+ km. or $3500 on someone elses headache and end up back at square 1 in a few months on the side of the road broken down and giving myself a second heart attack before 30 from the stress.



I mean, no one sells their TDI because its running awesome... mine will be awesome in 2 months and almost mechanically brand new as far as major wear items are concerned. between the purchase price and maintenance ive done to it, ill be close to $10,000 deep into it!!!
 

Lightflyer1

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If you break the belt or slip a tooth count another $2500 right there at least. You also have more than the engine to deal with.
 

fouillard13

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yeah I know. the mechanical, rotating stuff with tight clearances under the hood is what im more concerned about for now; the heart of the car. the bushings in the a arms, my suspension, sunroof drain, ball joints, door straps, chipped glass headlight lenses, scratched odometer plastic shield, DPF, isnt the end of the world if one gets a little sloppy or worn, but the timing belt and injector pump on the other hand shouldnt be neglected and ignored like the rest. its a fine line between putting money into a dead horse here and "if it aint broke, dont fix it".

I really cant afford, and not sure if its economically efficient to replace every. single. little. non mechanical little thing that isnt 100% perfect right now or nearing the "OEMs recommended change interval" with OEM parts only ya know? im not taking this to SEMA or anything, shes just the old war wagon to haul my bikes and get me to and from work.

maybe a VW isnt the right car for me. should just buy a Geo Metro or a Sunfire or old Civic or something for $250 and run it for a year till it dies. my pride doesnt care. I did the $120,000 jacked up cummins game for 5 years. thats no fun either. even if I gotta buy one every week its still cheaper than the Jetta!!! haha. im not sure if having 10x the maintenance @ 10x the costs is really worth 34mpg with diesel being 20% more expensive than gas right now too whereas a normal car at 25-30 MPG is 1/10th of the headache.



my brother bought a 02 corolla for $300... put 10,000 VERY hard km on it. off roading and everything. got hit with a hail storm and insurance gave him $2800 for it because of some dents.


he bought a jeep liberty that had a "leaking head gasket" and was "burning coolant" at a rate of about 1 cup per 1000km. brand new battery and winter tires, she wanted $500 for it. he got it for $300 again and has driven it for over a year with no problems now.



im about to do the same here!!!
 
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fouillard13

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Lots of good times with the car. Heaviest load was the sled and snowbike setup. (Sled 500lbs. Snowbike 300lbs. Trailer is about 300lbs) Hopefully they can continue and not bleed my poor bank account dry










 
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miningman

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Well, I dont want to influence your decision making too much.... its your car and your money. But I sold a perfect running 2003 alh , fully upto date with maintenance a few months ago because of health issues which meant driving a stick shift became impossible. So they are out there if you look and Alberta kijiji has lots presently available. $750 for a used KP39 installed is cheap. However if it hasn't already been done , then the intake manifold should be done at the same time. Has the alternator pulley been looked at lately?? What about rear axle bushings??



By your own admission, preventative maintenance is not your strong point. But the chickens are now definitely coming home to roost. Your suspension probably needs work. Brakes , as you say , arent too onerous but how long will you procrastinate on that job???

At some point , if you cant / wont / dont have the time to do these tasks , it soon becomes a situation of throwing good money after bad. TDI s are great cars but maintenance costs are high if you cant do the work yourself

So you now know for sure your old turbo has destroyed its bearings and possibly the compressor wheel. Sure much of the metallic debris will have been caught in the oil filter but how do you evaluate how much damage that debris did to soft bearings while circulating in your motor for the last 1000 km or so ??

Assume $1250 for the timing belt plus whatever for the cam installation.
 

fouillard13

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Well, I dont want to influence your decision making too much.... its your car and your money. But I sold a perfect running 2003 alh , fully upto date with maintenance a few months ago because of health issues which meant driving a stick shift became impossible. So they are out there if you look and Alberta kijiji has lots presently available. $750 for a used KP39 installed is cheap. However if it hasn't already been done , then the intake manifold should be done at the same time. Has the alternator pulley been looked at lately?? What about rear axle bushings??



By your own admission, preventative maintenance is not your strong point. But the chickens are now definitely coming home to roost. Your suspension probably needs work. Brakes , as you say , arent too onerous but how long will you procrastinate on that job???

At some point , if you cant / wont / dont have the time to do these tasks , it soon becomes a situation of throwing good money after bad. TDI s are great cars but maintenance costs are high if you cant do the work yourself

So you now know for sure your old turbo has destroyed its bearings and possibly the compressor wheel. Sure much of the metallic debris will have been caught in the oil filter but how do you evaluate how much damage that debris did to soft bearings while circulating in your motor for the last 1000 km or so ??

Assume $1250 for the timing belt plus whatever for the cam installation.

I hear ya on the health thing. broke my left knee biking and my left ankle walking at work so clutching in stop and go rush hour traffic can be painful sometimes. ive almost sold it due to health reasons too in my left leg.

there are TDIs all the time on kijiji for $2000 which is what makes this especially painful. its a tough one.

im sure my suspension needs work. I did the brakes when I first bought it (non oem... probably chinese). alternator has not been looked at. I can see my headlights dim about 3% when highway driving and engaging the window switch. rear axle has never been touched or looked at either.



its tempting....




 

Lightflyer1

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It would be very tempting to buy one of those used and move on at those prices. If you found a matching year for yours you could use parts off of the old one to work with the new one possibly. But if you are this bad on maintenance you might just follow your brothers lead and do $500 cars and just keep swapping out. As I said I have done this and just kept two on hand at all times just in case. It works. Unlike your brother though it is unwise to maintain full coverage on them. I just do liability only to save a huge chunk of change.
 

fouillard13

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yeah, he just does hail insurance and PRAYS for it every year haha.


I think if I had my own place/shop/area to store a few dead TDIs, I wouldnt be so lacking in maintenance. I really do love wrenching and buying tools. just got no shop... one day!!


heres a pic for fun... ever seen a lifted jetta with mud tires and a stack lol?


 
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VLS_GUY

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Turn your mechanic on to Dutch Auto Parts. This will save you plenty of $$$ and give him a consistent source of parts. I would put one of his rebuilt turbos on instead of a tired one with 130,000 Km on it. I would price out a KP39 at: http://www.dutchautoparts.com/
 

fouillard13

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130,000 MILES!!! 220,000km.


I seen that dutch auto parts site yesterday but was turned away due to the chitty website.... made me wonder if its legit or not. looks like something Prothe set up (im sure those are fighting words haha) the webshop doesnt work either. sure isnt IDparts thats for sure!!! is it just me or does he have zero info there about anything he sells? no prices or info on his turbos or anything. just a few before and after pictures??


http://www.dutchautoparts.com/turbochargers.php


I will email him for curiosity sake, but im pretty sure the car is already more than half done....
 
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Lurker92

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Ouch, sorry for your luck. The KP39 turbos these came with are pretty weak and at Alberta altitudes they just don't last. When mine went I got a VNT17, actually cost less then a new KP39 at the time.



However with all the work that you need to do and having to pay for labor I'd be looking for another car if it was me. These are great but if you can't do your own work they're just not economical at this age.


Also where did you get a quote for $1250 to rebuild the head? Seems reasonable, so I'd like to know for reference. PM if you prefer.
 

drucifer

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130,000 MILES!!! 220,000km.


I seen that dutch auto parts site yesterday but was turned away due to the chitty website.... made me wonder if its legit or not. looks like something Prothe set up (im sure those are fighting words haha) the webshop doesnt work either. sure isnt IDparts thats for sure!!! is it just me or does he have zero info there about anything he sells? no prices or info on his turbos or anything. just a few before and after pictures??


http://www.dutchautoparts.com/turbochargers.php


I will email him for curiosity sake, but im pretty sure the car is already more than half done....
I'll have to say Frans is very hit or miss on communication. If you want to look at product
look at his vendor thread located here.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=434593

In his defense as far as I know he he the only vendor here selling used parts as his entire business. I don't know how much a webshop costs to maintain but maybe his current system works for him. Once people get hold of him and place an order they are overwhelmingly satisfied. Email him call him be ready to lay down cash. He is in business to SELL. If your not committed to buying parts for your car let it go and move on.
 
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fouillard13

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Ouch, sorry for your luck. The KP39 turbos these came with are pretty weak and at Alberta altitudes they just don't last. When mine went I got a VNT17, actually cost less then a new KP39 at the time.



However with all the work that you need to do and having to pay for labor I'd be looking for another car if it was me. These are great but if you can't do your own work they're just not economical at this age.


Also where did you get a quote for $1250 to rebuild the head? Seems reasonable, so I'd like to know for reference. PM if you prefer.
ah, I hope the kp39 holds out for a bit longer!! when you say alberta altitudes, what do you mean? were only at 1000M/3000' here in southern ab. red deer is 850M, edmonton is 650M.



so just curious when you guys say, or I consider selling it.... I basically give it away as its worth nothing needing all these future repairs? I would feel like im selling someone a lemon if I asked full price for it. the only way I feel it would sell is if I gave it away for 25% of what its worth. its a really tough spot.

its Ktech performance in Taber, ab. that also includes a new cam. he said if I provided timing belt kit and water pump, he could do it for an extra $150. so $1400 (and you supply timing belt kit which is about $350 USD)

seems to know what hes doing, rebuilding bottom ends on Audis and everything.



https://www.facebook.com/ktechtuning/


I'll have to say Frans is very hit or miss on communication. If you want to look at product
look at his vendor thread located here.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=434593

In his defense as far as I know he he the only vendor here selling used parts as his entire business. I don't know how much a webshop costs to maintain but maybe his current system works for him. Once people get hold of him and place an order they are overwhelmingly satisfied. Email him call him be ready to lay down cash. He is in business to SELL. If your not committed to buying parts for your car let it go and move on.
emailed him at noon on the 30th asking for a price on his rebuilt turbos. nothing back yet (I know, its a sunday and new years)

thanks for that thread.


still waiting for car to be done... figured id have it back by now. its really only a half days job if the guys not slow, knows what hes doing, and gets to it right away isnt it?


very soon though im sure!
 
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fouillard13

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damn. Frans has "-ALH vnt15 rebuild $450"

not a horrible price at all. very close to what I paid for a 130,000 mile kp39, $1-200 difference. oh well. live and learn!
 

drucifer

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It's an 8 hour time difference from Alberta to the Netherlands. Would you answer a work email at eight pm Sunday night? Keep that in mind when you call.
 

fouillard13

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I know, im aware of that as mentioned in my previous post. im not expecting an answer back right away, and wasnt complaining... just thought id mention it.


it honestly feels like longer. being without a car and stranded at home I feel like its been 3 weeks.

got that link bookmarked for future use thats for sure. his prices are amazing and quality seems to be too. cheap, fast, and high quality.... pick two. his arent fast. thats fine with me for the most part.
 

Lurker92

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Cool, thanks for the link.

ah, I hope the kp39 holds out for a bit longer!! when you say alberta altitudes, what do you mean? were only at 1000M/3000' here in southern ab. red deer is 850M, edmonton is 650M.
3000’ isn’t insignificant altitude, we’re at 900mbar atmospheric pressure. So basically the turbo has to spin faster just to get up to sea level pressure and then more to make the boost to get the required air flow. Basically increases the work the turbo does by 10-15%, and on a weak turbo like these they just don’t last that long. That’s my opinion however and maybe it really doesn’t cause it too much stress but I see these failing much more than the garret turbos around here.
 

Lurker92

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so just curious when you guys say, or I consider selling it.... I basically give it away as its worth nothing needing all these future repairs? I would feel like im selling someone a lemon if I asked full price for it. the only way I feel it would sell is if I gave it away for 25% of what its worth. its a really tough spot.
The answer to this from an economics perspective is add up the cost to fix vs the difference of selling and buying another car. If it’s say more than $1000 more to fix than changing cars, then it might be worth it to sell and move on, only you can answer that. However if you really LOVE the car, then economics doesn’t matter as long as you can afford to fix it lol.

Again, only you can decide that.
 
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