Need Advice Pursuing Getting A Dealership To Do Their Job......

Fastbird

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
TDI
2012 Passat SEL, 2015 Sportwagen SEL
My 2012 Passat hasn't been right since winter of 2017-2018. When the motor is cold I get BAD nailing sounds, what feels like a dead cylinder at about 1800 RPM under light throttle, and I've seen reduced fuel economy since the first indications. NEVER a check engine light though.
Took it to the dealership around this time last year, they kept the car for a couple of days, tech said nothing is wrong, can't duplicate, I took him out in the car and showed him what it's doing, and I got the brush off of "if there's no MIL we really can't do anything."
I dealt with it. Fast forward to last week. My MIL finally pops on. I run a pull with VCDS and get the following:

8845 - Torque Difference Cylinder 4
P1007 00 [096] - Limit Value Exceeded
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

18638 - NOx Sensor 1 Bank 1
P2201 00 [236] - Implausible Signal
MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame (not entering, not necessary)

15733 - SCR NOx Catalyst Bank 1
P20EE 00 [096] - Efficiency too Low
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

So I take the car into the dealer. The put a new NOx sensor in, cleared up the MIL, did a couple of recalls, and that's that. While I was dropping it off I was describing the driveability issues to the writer and explaining the nailing and dead cylinder feel to the adviser and the tech behind her, same guy as last time, said "that's normal for warm up." I explained to him NO, that's NOT normal, I've had the car for 3 1/2 years and over 50K miles and I only started experiencing it last year. He brushed me off.
Got called today that the car is done. Spoke with the adviser again and we went over notes. When I dropped it off, I explained to not be alarmed, I do my own non-warranty service and just in November did an Oil Change, DSG Service, Timing Belt w/Water Pump, and filters (Fuel, Air, Cabin). I asked if the two pending codes were addressed. She said "we can't address those because they don't show up on our software and they're not even VW codes.
Finding that rather incredulous, I pressed further but got nowhere. I asked did they look at anything other than the NOx sensor. She said her tech noted in the system that "no oil change sticker on dash, question type of oil used, recommend oil change and recheck vehicle for driveability."
Essentially at this point I'm feeling this dealership is treating me like I'm clueless (the "that's normal for warm up" and snarky oil change note in the system), and isn't doing a single thing to address issues that I've brought up (that are most likely a failing injector), and using every excuse they can to get out of even attempting to actually troubleshoot an issue. I'm not sure which way to go from here. This is the ONLY VW dealership in my area other than an unrelated Audi dealer in town where I'm not sure how much help I'd get. I'm contemplating a VWOA phone call but not sure that'll get me anything.
 

buffa98

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Location
SE PA
TDI
2013 SE DSG White/Cornsilk
I had a similar problem last fall after the "fix" was done. When it was cold it made a lot more noise, similar to an ALH motor. Then as you were driving prior to it warming up to normal op temp, it would stumble like it was starving for fuel. Long story short the dealer put in 4 new injectors at 76K under warrenty.
 

Fastbird

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
TDI
2012 Passat SEL, 2015 Sportwagen SEL
I had a similar problem last fall after the "fix" was done. When it was cold it made a lot more noise, similar to an ALH motor. Then as you were driving prior to it warming up to normal op temp, it would stumble like it was starving for fuel. Long story short the dealer put in 4 new injectors at 76K under warrenty.
Did you have any check engine lights or anything? My dealer is refusing to troubleshoot anything unless a CEL is present.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Shocked that the dealer wouldn't investigate more after you stated you do all your own maintenance and only want them to investigate a odd sound.

If there's no CEL it's a typical response due to the GFF VW uses.

Maybe an independent shop may have some more knowledge.
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Shocked that the dealer wouldn't investigate more after you stated you do all your own maintenance and only want them to investigate a odd sound. ...
I assume you're being sarcastic?

I'm not surprised at all that a customer who never brings his car to the dealership would be treated differently than someone who has maintained a relationship with the dealership.

I don't condone this policy, but it doesn't surprise me.

My various vehicles are well supported by the various dealerships I visit. They know me, they trust my knowledge, (they RELY on my knowledge, sometimes!), and they have all been very fair with pricing...oil/fluid changes, tire install/balancing, FE alignments, etc.
I even have my Toyota dealership lined up to install new struts, all 4 corners, including an alignment, for $600...$400less than 2 diff indie shops. (buying struts from TireRack)

Sorry to beat on you, but you might need to work on the dealership relationship...if they're worthy. Maybe they're not??? You have to decide that.
 

buffa98

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Location
SE PA
TDI
2013 SE DSG White/Cornsilk
Did you have any check engine lights or anything? My dealer is refusing to troubleshoot anything unless a CEL is present.
I dropped it off the night before, and went in the next morning to drive it with the service manager. He saw/felt what it was doing and and was surprised that it wasnt throwing a code. after that they tore into it
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Maybe the solenoid injectors of the CRKA aren't as precise/flexible as the piezo ones of the CJAA and have issues without the ECU noticing.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I assume you're being sarcastic?
sarcastic or tongue and cheek, I guess it all depends on how the conversation went with the service writer. Some people don't take condescending attitudes well knowing there is zero value to the dealership.

I always have to bite my tongue when asking the dealer to address and issue I have.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Nailing when cold suggests an injector is not seating properly. I wonder if that is the reason for a CKRA in another thread blew #4 injector clean OUT of the engine?

You'd almost have to try and watch the cylinder pressure sensor values at cold start and see if one of them is showing a significant difference than the others. At least that would isolate a cylinder and confirm that there IS something not quite right.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
But if they weren't seating wouldn't he GP throw excessive pressure code of some sort?

maybe it's just in the sweet spot to cause audible sound but not trigger the threshold of a CEL.

At least the injectors are cheaper than the piezios.
 

Fastbird

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
TDI
2012 Passat SEL, 2015 Sportwagen SEL
I've got a good working relationship with this dealership as possible. They've performed some general services I've paid for, warranty work when necessary, and I have taken care of things myself as time allows. They've made plenty of money off of me and the service advisers I work with and I have an open dialogue about why I do or don't bring the car in for certain things (essentially thing I'm capable of doing myself I do as time allows).

I've taken the car out with a tech and their shop manager, both of whom acknowledged the noise and the vibration/hesitation/misfire feeling before the car warms up. I point blank asked the shop manager, has the art of driveability diagnosis been lost to the point that you must have a check engine light on in order to diagnose something. The Warranty Adviser stepped in and started talking about throwing parts at it, warranty cost, etc, and I had to interject and point out that I NEVER said I wouldn't pay for diagnostic fees or the like until it was determined a warrantied part is the problem. It wasn't even offered to me. It has always and until that point continued to be a stone cold "without a CEL we can't do anything." As soon as that conversation concluded, her tone QUICKLY changed to "do you want to pay for for us to start digging into it and throwing parts at it?" (SA's words, not mine) and it was obvious she saw dollar signs to which I quickly declined. The Service Manager when I asked what tests could be done (I'm running down the road towards an injector or cylinder balance test) said "we already did them with our scanner, all tests passed." I had a printout showing they scanned for codes. For SOME reason, their scanner wouldn't pick up the two pendings that VCDS did, one of which was the Cylinder 4 Imbalance that's my primary concern.

Essentially, I've gotten nothing but run arounds and wouldn't be using this dealership if it wasn't the ONLY one within about 90 minutes of me. I've been told that a completely fogged over tail light on our 2015 SEL Sportwagen is "Normal" but they'd replace it under the 3/36 as a courtesy. I've been told that the hesitation/misfire on my Passat that I'm feeling on cold engine partial throttle is normal. I've been told that since they don't know what kind of oil was used and no oil change sticker was present, that they recommend changing to proper spec oil and reevaluating the car. I've been told "we can't diagnose anything without having a check engine light on." I've been told that standard OBDII codes as presented from VCDS "aren't VW codes and don't meant anything." I've been told "injectors can't fail when cold and work as temps go up (bullcrap)." As a former auto tech, these things scream incompetency and simply shady business practices in regards to simply trying to avoid warranty claims as much as possible. So those of you being snarky about the fact that I do a lot of my own maintenance and think it's right I get treated different, please reconsider that notion because as a service department they should be treating all customers the same.

*Edit* On another note, I've never been a diesel tech and never really messed with direct injection stuff. How difficult would it be to swap injectors around and see if the cylinder imbalance fault follows?
 
Last edited:

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Thanks for the clarification re: your experience, your knowledge, your relationship with the dealer. There was nothing "snarky" about any observation, in response to YOUR statements, "I do my own non-warranty service and just in November did an Oil Change, DSG Service, Timing Belt w/Water Pump, and filters",as all of those jobs are bread-and-butter income for any service department. I read too much into your first post, and had no idea this dealership had every done any work for you.
Very sorry to hear that you're dealing with a truly belligerent service department. Based on the tone of your original post, and your lengthy follow-up post, it's very hard to believe that you ever had ANY work done at this particular dealer.
Good luck resolving this. Hopefully, injector replacement (relatively cheap) is in order, and you'll be on your way!
 

cleaver

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Berwick, Nova Scotia
TDI
None - did own '01 and '02 Jetta TDI
I've been told that the hesitation/misfire on my Passat that I'm feeling on cold engine partial throttle is normal. I've been told that since they don't know what kind of oil was used and no oil change sticker was present, that they recommend changing to proper spec oil and reevaluating the car. I've been told "we can't diagnose anything without having a check engine light on." I've been told that standard OBDII codes as presented from VCDS "aren't VW codes and don't meant anything." I've been told "injectors can't fail when cold and work as temps go up (bullcrap)."
THIS ^^^ is the answer to your question. This dealership doesn't have mechanics, they have monkeys trained to use diagnostic tools. They have no idea what to do if their tools do not find anything. Go find yourself another independent mechanic or make the trip to visit another dealership that has a skillset worthy of paying money for. Nothing LESS nothing MORE.
 
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