2002 ALH TDI Cranks-No start

RallySport

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Location
Washington Twp, MI
TDI
2002 Golf TDI ALH
Hi all,

I am coming to this forum in search of some help on my 02 Golf TDI 5 speed ALH.

PROBLEM: As of TODAY. The car will crank, but will not start. But ran fine yesterday, and all the days before that.

Car has 200K on her. I have owned this car for about 5 months and it has not given me any issues until today.

What I have noticed is that there is no fuel visibly passing through the clear fuel line between the injection pump and fuel filter.

I need help diagnosing what the issue could be. I have already looked at the No start condition thread that was made on this forum years ago but still need some help.

I have noticed also that there are 2 wires that the insulation has stripped off of on my anti shutter valve solenoid connector.

FIRST off I need to figure out why I'm not getting any fuel now.

PS temperature has been below freezing for a few days now.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Adam
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Did you work through the no start thread?

Stripped insulation, did you make sure the valve itself was physically open?

Does your glow plug light come on when you turn the ignition on?

Did you loosen one of the injectors to see if you are getting fuel?
 

RallySport

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Location
Washington Twp, MI
TDI
2002 Golf TDI ALH
Did you work through the no start thread?

Yes, I have worked through the applicable areas of concern.

Stripped insulation, did you make sure the valve itself was physically open?

Yes I made the the valve was open. I had an incident where it was stuck closed and caused a no start. So I know its not that.

Does your glow plug light come on when you turn the ignition on?
Yes, it turns on and off as it should.

Did you loosen one of the injectors to see if you are getting fuel?

No, I did not loosen one of the injectors to see if I am getting fuel.
If there is no fuel flowing through the clear line how would I be getting fuel?(not trying to be sarcastic)

LIke I said, I don't see any fuel going through the clear line between the fuel filter and IP.

THanks,
Adam
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
So the logical conclusions are there's no fuel in the tank or there's a leak in the fuel supply line letting air in.

Likely place is the tee on the filter.

Or maybe gelled fuel? Cold enough there for that?
 

RallySport

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Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Location
Washington Twp, MI
TDI
2002 Golf TDI ALH
There 3/4 of diesel in the tank right now. Is there a way I can check for a leak at that tee fitting on top of the fuel filter? I just pulled that off and tried "Priming" the fuel system by filling the exisiting filter up to the top.. It was already full though. Its been in the 20s the past few days. How likely is it to gel? I'm thinking that's fairly unlikely but I'm not sure.

I'm lost!
 

JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
Diesel gels at ~14*F... sounds like you need to reset static timing and start from scratch...
 

RallySport

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Apr 5, 2017
Location
Washington Twp, MI
TDI
2002 Golf TDI ALH
The engine ran fine yesterday. Sat overnight. Now it won't start. How could the timing have changed overnight? The most likely problem I can think of is air entering the fuel lines somewhere by or at the fuel filter. Can anybody explain how the in tank pump works with the injection pump? What feeds the injection pump? Does the fuel pump provide the IP with fuel??
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
There is no pump in the tank. Fuel is pulled from the tank by the rotary pump.

If there's no fuel in the lines you could try cracking open the top nuts on injectors 1 and 2. See if when you crank the engine over they spray fuel. If they do the car should fire.

If there's not fuel, could be a stuck fuel shutoff solenoid or a leak somewhere in the fuel lines causing air to enter the system. The pump can't pull fuel if there's a lot of air present. Could be a damaged fuel line, gelled fuel filter (have you replaced it since purchase?) or a cracked fuel filter tee.

If there is fuel and the car still doesn't fire, the relay 109 is a possible culprit.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
I can never tell if something is moving in that “clear” piece of fuel line or not. I guess all I’ve ever seen is opaque fuel line. Cracking an injector will do two things let you know if you are actually getting fuel to the cylinder and bleed any air out of the fuel lines.

The easiest cure for gelled fuel is push it inside a warm garage/building. Unless you have some fuel from summer still in your tank I would think any fuel station in Michigan would have already started treating their diesel. I lean less toward gelling and more toward a leak somewhere.
 

wonneber

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Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
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2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Unless someone installed a lift pump in your tank you do not have a pump there.
You indicated the filter was full so that sounds OK.
The 'tee' on the filter has 2 O-rings that are suppose to be changed with a new filter.
If they weren't changed they could be leaking air.
I've read people say they coat the o-ring area with grease to help that problem and that the tee itself can have hair line cracks. Inexpensive item to replace.

Just noticed you indicated 'Car has 200K'
Has the timing belt been replaced recently?

Have you scanned for codes with VCDS?
When you turn the key on do all the normal dash lights go on including the glow plug light and the check engine light?
If not might be a power problem. Relay 109 would be the 1st thing I check.
Hook a meter to the small solenoid on the back of the injector pump. It has 1 wire with a stud & nut holding it on.
When you turn the ignition on you should get power to it for a second or so, then when you crank the car it should have power.
If thinks are OK so far you may just have to bleed the fuel system.
A vacuum pump is usually used for this sucking vacuum from the pump return line.
You may have to run power to the solenoid tested above.
You should see fuel going through the clear line leaving a small air bubble on top.
When no more (or very little) air comes out put the hose back on.
Take the jumper off and try a quick start.
Last (for now) if it doesn't start put a few rags around the bottom of the injectors.
Loosen the line nuts about 1/4 turn.
Have someone crank the car until you see fuel coming out.
Tighten the lines, remove the rags, clean up and fuel spills and try starting again.
I would take the vacuum hose off the ASV while you are diagnosing things and make sure its open.
 
Last edited:

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
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Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Powering the cutoff solenoid is not required or helpful in bleeding the pump. It only feeds the high pressure plunger. The path through the pump to the return line doesn't go through it.
 

jokila

Vendor
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Dec 3, 2004
Location
Houston, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS, Manual
The engine ran fine yesterday. Sat overnight. Now it won't start. How could the timing have changed overnight? The most likely problem I can think of is air entering the fuel lines somewhere by or at the fuel filter. Can anybody explain how the in tank pump works with the injection pump? What feeds the injection pump? Does the fuel pump provide the IP with fuel??
Bad seals in the IP can cause the fuel to leak out or let the fuel line lose its prime. This will cause a car to run one day and the next day not. If the fuel is not gelled you should be able to pull fuel through the IP on the return line going to the filter using a miteyvac.
 

RallySport

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Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Location
Washington Twp, MI
TDI
2002 Golf TDI ALH
Thanks for the feedback. I am going to use a MityVac when I get home from work and try to suck the fuel to the IP to prime the system. I will report back with results when I'm done.

I don't think Relay 109 is causing my problem because my GLOWPLUG light is working normally when I cycle my key. But it is something I should check anyways right? :)

My timing belt needs to be replaced. It is not broken! I'm just approaching 200K.

Once I use the mityvac to prime the IP, my car should start, and then I will report back.

After that, I need to figure out what caused the fuel system to lose its prime. I would think that the tee fitting on the fuel filter is the most likely suspect to letting air into the fuel system? Agreed? The O ring looked very old and the top of the filter itself has a bunch of white corrosion on it.


Thanks
TDI Club members for your quick responses. It drives me insane that my car is sitting like this! It sucks! Your guidance is key!
 

steve6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Location
Beaverton, ON
TDI
2003 jetta tdi
Check to make sure the belt is actually turning when you crank, you can pull the cover back and just look. Easy check. Cold weather, old belt... easily could have pulled it apart on that cold start attempt.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
You should put a new fuel filter in the car. If you didn't replace it after purchase, there's not telling how long it's been in the car or what's in it. Could have frozen up overnight. Get the car somewhere warm, put on a new filter, prefill it with Diesel Purge or similar. I bet the car will start.
 

RallySport

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Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Location
Washington Twp, MI
TDI
2002 Golf TDI ALH
So, bought a new battery. Replaced the fuel filter. Put new O-Rings on the return valve on top of the fuel filter.

I hooked up my MightyVac up to the return fuel line AT the fuel filter and i was able to fill the clear line up about halfway at one point and then after that i was not able to get any fuel through the line. (Or strugged to get a small amount.)

THEN I hooked my MightyVac up to the feed line on the filter(from the fuel tank) and i was able to suck some gasoline perfectly fine. It filled up my plastic jug. So the fuel line from the tank to the fuel filter IS NOT plugged.

I am confused why i struggled to get fluid through the clear hose when i had the hand vacuum pump hooked to the return line!

Now the problem is my starter motor will not turn the motor over. Kicks it over once or twice. So i cant even really do anything with it now except replace the starter motor.:eek:
 

mcarthur70

Veteran Member
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Aug 3, 2013
Location
tennessee
TDI
2012 jetta wagon
i'm in the same boat as him.. used my 03 jetta alh Friday parked it tried to start it this mourning and nothing. changed fuel filter , checked fuel shut off solenoid i'm getting 10.62 volts thought it was supposed to get 12v . loosened top of injectors 1 to 4 and got fuel bubbles at the top. checked the asv and its good ..*** is wrong with this car !!!!
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Rally, there is not a lot of clearance in the pump so once you suck the air through and it's full of fuel it will barely flow. Being that you're in the salt belt did you check all the battery/starter/ground cables?

mcart, did you fill the filter with fuel? It can take a lot of cranking to get fuel through with a filter change. Might be a leak on the pump letting air in when the seals got cold and nothing to do with the filter.
 

jokila

Vendor
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Dec 3, 2004
Location
Houston, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS, Manual
[
I hooked up my MightyVac up to the return fuel line AT the fuel filter and i was able to fill the clear line up about halfway at one point and then after that i was not able to get any fuel through the line. (Or strugged to get a small amount.)
Does the vacuum hold steady if you stop pumping? It can be slow, but should fill the IP.
 

RallySport

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Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Location
Washington Twp, MI
TDI
2002 Golf TDI ALH
Does the vacuum hold steady if you stop pumping? It can be slow, but should fill the IP.
It held vacuum momentarily. It would slowly lose vacuum but it would not fill up the fuel supply line to the UP.

I just ordered a Bosch reman starter off rock auto for 180, and that's including the core! Great price IMO.

KLX, that is my next task. I plan on towing the car to my dad's garage to further work on her and diagnose. It's not supposed to crack 30 degrees all week long and it's miserable working on it outsise. I will be inspecting the grounds and leads from the battery to the starter next and I will share what i find.

Thanks again, I will keep y'all posted! Stay with me!

I will keep you guys posted
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
One: you said that you "worked through" the no start thread, but didn't say what you actually did. Maybe you did things that you thought could be the problem, but there is something that you missed. Without knowing what you did, I don't know how to help.
 

jokila

Vendor
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Location
Houston, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS, Manual
It held vacuum momentarily. It would slowly lose vacuum but it would not fill up the fuel supply line to the UP.
I just ordered a Bosch reman starter off rock auto for 180, and that's including the core! Great price IMO.
KLX, that is my next task. I plan on towing the car to my dad's garage to further work on her and diagnose. It's not supposed to crack 30 degrees all week long and it's miserable working on it outsise. I will be inspecting the grounds and leads from the battery to the starter next and I will share what i find.
Thanks again, I will keep y'all posted! Stay with me!
I will keep you guys posted
It should hold the vacuum. It sounds like you have seals that are bad. That is why the fuel is not making it back to the miteyvac.
 

RallySport

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Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Location
Washington Twp, MI
TDI
2002 Golf TDI ALH
It should hold the vacuum. It sounds like you have seals that are bad. That is why the fuel is not making it back to the miteyvac.
I may have figured out why im not able to suck any fuel through the IP. The bentley manual says that the fuel cut off solenoid needs to be open which means KEY ON. I was trying to bleed the IP with the key off, which means the fuel cut off solenoid is preventing fuel from moving within the IP. So later today i will be trying to bleed the IP lines with the KEY ON(solenoid open) I hope that takes care of the bleeding. After that im removing the starter to get ready for the replacement one.

Whitedog- Read through the thread and that will tell you what I have done so far.
 

mcarthur70

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Aug 3, 2013
Location
tennessee
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2012 jetta wagon
Yes i pre filled the filter .. pulling it in the garage and go over everything under the hood .. was to dark last night .. maybe i can find whats going on with it .. i also checked the timing belt it is in tack. 190000 miles never had any trouble like this before. Another question , when you loosen the fuel lines at the top of the injectors and you crank it i am getting fuel bubbling out of all 4 injectors . or should it stream out ? thanks for the help..
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
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May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
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New Beetle 2003 manual
Yes i pre filled the filter .. pulling it in the garage and go over everything under the hood .. was to dark last night .. maybe i can find whats going on with it .. i also checked the timing belt it is in tack. 190000 miles never had any trouble like this before. Another question , when you loosen the fuel lines at the top of the injectors and you crank it i am getting fuel bubbling out of all 4 injectors . or should it stream out ? thanks for the help..
Depends how loose the connect is, but yes it will shoot out pretty good, quickly. Makes a nice mess if you don't put down some rags.

I may have figured out why im not able to suck any fuel through the IP. The bentley manual says that the fuel cut off solenoid needs to be open which means KEY ON. I was trying to bleed the IP with the key off, which means the fuel cut off solenoid is preventing fuel from moving within the IP. So later today i will be trying to bleed the IP lines with the KEY ON(solenoid open) I hope that takes care of the bleeding. After that im removing the starter to get ready for the replacement one.
Whitedog- Read through the thread and that will tell you what I have done so far.
Don't know about that, I've changed my IP twice and easily bled sucking with a clear tube, car off.
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
I may have figured out why im not able to suck any fuel through the IP. The bentley manual says that the fuel cut off solenoid needs to be open which means KEY ON. I was trying to bleed the IP with the key off, which means the fuel cut off solenoid is preventing fuel from moving within the IP. So later today i will be trying to bleed the IP lines with the KEY ON(solenoid open) I hope that takes care of the bleeding. After that im removing the starter to get ready for the replacement one.

Whitedog- Read through the thread and that will tell you what I have done so far.
Don't get your hopes up. The solenoid only allows fuel to the high pressure plunger. Has nothing to do with fuel moving from the inlet to the outlet lines.

Look at the pump. Fuel flows through the body up through the QA and out the return. The solenoid is on the high pressure pump head.
 

jokila

Vendor
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Location
Houston, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS, Manual
I may have figured out why im not able to suck any fuel through the IP. The bentley manual says that the fuel cut off solenoid needs to be open which means KEY ON. I was trying to bleed the IP with the key off, which means the fuel cut off solenoid is preventing fuel from moving within the IP. So later today i will be trying to bleed the IP lines with the KEY ON(solenoid open) I hope that takes care of the bleeding. After that im removing the starter to get ready for the replacement one.
Whitedog- Read through the thread and that will tell you what I have done so far.
You missed the part about it not holding a vacuum. Regardless if you need the key on (you don't), the fact it doesn't hold a vacuum (assuming you have the miteyvac connected solidly) means air is entering the fuel lines. The seals are bad.

Sometimes it can be a temporary situation and the seals will allow the prime to take place, but in the end the seals are going south on you.
 

jokila

Vendor
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Dec 3, 2004
Location
Houston, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS, Manual
I should add about the vacuum level drop. It should steadily and slowly drop as fuel makes its way to the miteyvac. You then would pump again to draw more vacuum and repeat.

What I am referring to is a quick drop in vacuum. It doesn't hold it for a mere second or two, tops.
 
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