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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old August 28th, 2016, 17:16   #46
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Originally Posted by \/\/0J0 View Post
Jello Biafra proposed a ban on all cars within city limits as part of his campaign platform when he ran for mayor of San Francisco. He also proposed that folks in the business district should be required to wear clown suits between 9a and 5p. He only lost by something like 17 percent

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Old August 28th, 2016, 19:44   #47
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Originally Posted by \/\/0J0 View Post
Jello Biafra proposed a ban on all cars within city limits as part of his campaign platform when he ran for mayor of San Francisco.
A LOT has changed since 1979

The Netherlands seeks to ban new ICE by 2025.

Paris bans all cars built before 1997

Paris begins 'car-free-Sunday'
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Old August 29th, 2016, 11:50   #48
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Default Hidden cost(s) of transportation energy?

If we agree to include the 'Vehicle Manufacturing' health costs to the equation of the emissions impact from our cars then we ought to consider the National Academy of Sciences report titled: "Hidden Cost of Energy: Unpriced Consequences of Energy Production and Use." (2009),http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12794. The chart below is courtesy of wxman and is similar to the one you can find in the above report in Figure 3-7(a), Page 212 (of 506):


In my view, after you look at the graph and what's the science behind it, neither modern light-duty diesel cars are as 'grey' as they are portrayed in society nor electrical vehicles are as 'green' ('zero emissions') as we might believe they are. The truth of the matter is complex and somewhere in between (again in my humble opinion).

Should we mainly be concerned with 'local tailpipe' emissions or with global overall emissions impact on our planet?
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Old August 29th, 2016, 13:15   #49
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Very interesting. A significant impact is the ongoing consumables that ICEs use
that are largely eliminated by electric vehicles.
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Old August 29th, 2016, 16:28   #50
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Very interesting graph about the real hidden costs on transportation .

I remember reading a story years ago about how great people thought it was in the early 1900's when cars first starting replacing horses in the big city's. No more unsightly horse manure filling the city streets with the horrible smell and disease carry flies. Wonder what will we be complaining about in next hundred years?
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Old November 6th, 2016, 22:20   #51
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Seen a lot pertaining to the small tdi emissions, but little or nothing about the bigger engine from VW.
How about the 3.0 tdi in the Touareg and Audi Q7?
How do they compare to other diesel vehicles?
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Old November 6th, 2016, 22:31   #52
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Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Should we mainly be concerned with 'local tailpipe' emissions or with global overall emissions impact on our planet?
I've been stating this for years. My 16-year-old vehicle produces less overall pollution than a 2016 model vehicle with a massive chemical battery.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 08:21   #53
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Originally Posted by Treg-tdi View Post
Seen a lot pertaining to the small tdi emissions, but little or nothing about the bigger engine from VW.
How about the 3.0 tdi in the Touareg and Audi Q7?
How do they compare to other diesel vehicles?
According to the official Notice of Violation (NOV) from EPA, the 3.0 liter TDIs have real-world NOx emissions up to 9 times the standard.


https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...2015-11-02.pdf (Page 4)
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Old February 4th, 2018, 06:57   #54
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Default Emissions from original golf/rabbit diesel

I watch the Netflix "expose'" on the vw diesel gate last night and got to thinking about what another poster asked earlier in this old thread. What level of NOx did our older diesels emit? I have an '84 Rabbit with no emission controls, so out of the box, I found that according to this article (EPA), it was putting out less than the CR TDI's involved in the scandal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the offending cars were putting out well over 1 to 2 grams/mile, then my old one might be cleaner from that standpoint. Here is the URL link;
https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/...es=1&ZyEntry=1
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Old February 5th, 2018, 12:32   #55
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I looked up my '83 Mercedes diesel.. i can't recall the exact value, but it was way up there (1g/mi?). At its worst, the TDi was still under that.

Where I live, driving the Mercedes would be OK, but not the TDi.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 15:28   #56
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From post #3:

In the WVU study the Jetta was tested on 8 road tests involving urban, rural, and hwy conditions. The emissions ranged from 614 mg/mi to 1480 mg/mi. Across all 8 road tests the mileage weighted average would be 1084 mg/mi.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 20:28   #57
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Anyone know why only the 2015's could be 'fixed'? I have a 2011 and wonder how the 2015 differs aside from the facelift. Mine is a rescue (salvage title), so it's exempt from any fixes, but I wish it wasn't such a polluter. I hear people that got the fix are claiming better mpg numbers. I wonder if the car can still pull as much, as I regularly tow a small boat and jet skis.
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Old February 5th, 2018, 22:56   #58
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I may be wrong but I didn't think any running licensed car was exempt from the fix, only the compensation. Don't be fooled by all the bad press either. Even as they were stock they were very clean except in one category and that was only sometimes. Some report slightly better some slightly worse. I would think whatever you did before is still possible.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 08:16   #59
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Originally Posted by IDoSeaDoo View Post
Anyone know why only the 2015's could be 'fixed'? I have a 2011 and wonder how the 2015 differs aside from the facelift....
The 2015s had much lower NOx emissions than the earlier generations even before the "fix", according to CARB:


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Old February 6th, 2018, 10:59   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDoSeaDoo View Post
Anyone know why only the 2015's could be 'fixed'? I have a 2011 and wonder how the 2015 differs aside from the facelift. Mine is a rescue (salvage title), so it's exempt from any fixes, but I wish it wasn't such a polluter. I hear people that got the fix are claiming better mpg numbers. I wonder if the car can still pull as much, as I regularly tow a small boat and jet skis.
Pre-2015 common rail TDIs used a different NOx aftertreatment strategy (Lean NOx Trap - LNT - vs Selective Catalytic Reduction - SCR). The CR Passat has used SCR since 2012. The main difference between the two methods that are observable by the end user is the reductant used, Diesel fuel vs DEF, respectively. Theoretically, there should be little difference in the conversion efficiency from NOx to N2 between the two approaches, but the expense of the amount of reductant used. VW cheated because getting the TDI to pass emission limits for NOx would result in an unacceptable compromise in fuel economy - something they discovered either too late in the development cycle to change, or due to hubris on the part of management/engineering, or pressure to use the cheaper and less inconvenient LNT solution. Many have sought to explain the reasons, and an overbearing management and corporate culture have been implicated, but we can only state what we know for sure.

Edit: In short, an LNT-equipped TDI could ostensibly meet regulations, as the Gen-1 post-fix result in the above post shows. The Gen-1 fixes retain an LNT but include a brand new catalyst with an improved formulation, as well as other changes. My understanding of the consent decree is that the fixed Gen-1 TDIs will still not meet the T2B5 NOx limit of 0.07 g/mile - rather understandable considering many of the cars will have substantial miles put on them already, and many exceeding the 120k miles within which the limit applies; if it could be made to do so, the fuel economy would be impacted so much that it would be pointless. VW must have come to know this during the development back in 2007-ish and the technology available at that time, but instead of making the fix right in the place (i.e. go to SCR) decided to cheat and hide its activities because too much was already invested and riding in LNT.

SCR-equipped TDIs are fixed by removing the defeat programming and calibration changes that include an increased amount of DEF consumed but not so much so that it is significantly noticed over the refill intervals of several thousand miles.
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