VW TDI OEM Factory Fill Oil is 0W-30

S

SkyPup

Guest
Unlike North America, the passenger car engine oils market in Europe has several distinct tiers of performance. The
performance claims, viscosity grade, and type of base stock used differentiate these. A major part of the market is
driven primarily by ACEA performance requirements. A large portion of this market is driven by SAE 10W-40
products claiming ACEA A3/B3 along with some OEM requirements, such as VW 500 (though now obsolete) and
505, which are similar to this performance level. A higher tier of products are typically considered to be ‘semisynthetic’
and normally are 5W-40 or 5W-30 products. These products claim ACEA performance but also add a
number of upper tier OEM approvals such as BMW, Porsche, and DaimlerChrylser. Finally, at the top of the market
are fully synthetic products that are now moving to grades such as 0W-40. A distinguishing feature of almost all of
these products is the maintenance of a high temperature high shear rate (HTHS) viscosity of 3.5 cP in order to meet
the majority of European OEM requirements.

In addition to consumer products, a recent phenomenon is the development of OEM-specific factory fill lubricants
meeting the unique requirements of the OEM. What distinguishes these new generation factory fill oils is that they
are focusing on providing top level performance designed specifically for the OEM’s engine. The first generations
of these oils have been low viscosity products with reduced HTHS viscosity in order to improve fuel economy. The
current Volkswagen TDI factory fill specification 521.73 is an example of such oil. This VW OEM requirement specifies a
high performance 0W-30 for factory fill purposes. Both Mercedes Benz and Opel are also targeting similar specific
high performance fluids for factory fill application,
 

car54

theGAME
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Woodbridge VA
TDI
2002 Jetta
May I ask why you posted this? I see no technical references to any concrete sources that say OEM fill is ow-30? It sounds more like a personal rant... designed just to piss certain 40wt lovers off.

Just wondering if you made this up or if you care to provide references to the sourse of this info..
 
M

mickey

Guest
I had mine tested. It was an xW30. (They only tested for high temperature viscosity, so I don't know what the "x" was.)

Looks like perfectly good information to me. SkyPup's sources are generally unimpeachable. What's up, Matt? Take a pill.

-mickey
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
This is old news.


The OEM TDI break-in oil for the first 5,000 miles is a 0W-30 currently.

All the OEM Europeans are going to 0W-20 & 0W-40.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
P.S. -> the VW TDI & T4 engine tests are viewed as the most stringent test of an engine oil and are also used by DaimlerChrysler, VW-AUDI and Peugeot.
 

cars wanted

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 1999
Location
Rockville, Maryland U.S.A.
TDI
Golf GLS-TDI, 2000, white/beige
"The current Volkswagen TDI factory fill specification 521.73 is an example of such oil. This VW OEM requirement specifies a
high performance 0W-30 for factory fill purposes."

Does this factory fill oil apply only to current "Pumpe-Duese" TDIs, or are the old 90 hp TDIs destined for North America included?
Does any one have a text of VWAG's specification 521.73 to post?
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
That is an OEM proprietary spec, and it applies to all their engines.

Volkswagen's approval requires three different engine
tests. Two 50 hours tests on VW four-cylinder
engines (one gas-powered, the second
turbo-diesel) together validate the protection against
piston clogging and piston-rings wear. The last test,
running a gas-powered four-cylinder
Mercedes motor for 185 hours, double-checks the
same properties and also reveals the protection of
valvetrain parts, cams and pushrods against wear.
The tests on VW engines run at full charge, while the
Mercedes alternates full charge and idle. This equals
20 000 km of mixed use, combining city, road
and motorway.

[ July 24, 2002, 05:38: Message edited by: SkyPup ]
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
VW 2002 Current OEM Specifications for Europe:



remember, things are alot more primitive in north america
 

car54

theGAME
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Woodbridge VA
TDI
2002 Jetta
Originally posted by msauve:
As with many of 'pup's postings, this one was plagarized. Google it, and you'll find he stole it from a Chevron document: www.chevron.com/prodserv/BaseOils/docs/icis.pdf

VW uses a break-in oil. There is nothing to indicate that it would be suitable for continued useage, in fact VWoA specifically advises use of a 5W40 oil.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your right, this ENTIRE POST is right out of that chevron PDF from february, 2000.

Skypup, why does the oem fill even matter to anybody? Why should we be concerned with what the factory puts in the engine? I assume you have a important reason for us to know whats in there as you took the time to copy a chevron document to tell us...

just wondering..

Mickey, I'm only asking because it seems like it was posted for the sole reason of being flamebait, like alot of skypups posts are, with no general purpose behind it. I respect some of his posts, but not this one. If it doesnt look like flamebait, or a useless rant to you, read it again.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
The VW 521.73 factory fill oil is 0W-30 for model year 2002, same as it has been since 1998.


After that you can continue to use either 0w-30, 0W-40, 5W-30, 5W-40, 10W-30, or 10W-40, take your pick, it is as simple as that!
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Originally posted by SkyPup:
The VW 521.73 factory fill oil is 0W-30 for model year 2002, same as it has been since 1998.


After that you can continue to use either 0w-30, 0W-40, 5W-30, 5W-40, 10W-30, or 10W-40, take your pick, it is as simple as that!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Any of the above oils are 100% purrfect.


BTW, the only flambait, is for anyone who cannot understand the simple facts as posted here.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Originally posted by SkyPup:
Unlike North America, the passenger car engine oils market in Europe has several distinct tiers of performance. The
performance claims, viscosity grade, and type of base stock used differentiate these. A major part of the market is
driven primarily by ACEA performance requirements. A large portion of this market is driven by SAE 10W-40
products claiming ACEA A3/B3 along with some OEM requirements, such as VW 500 (though now obsolete) and
505, which are similar to this performance level. A higher tier of products are typically considered to be ‘semisynthetic’
and normally are 5W-40 or 5W-30 products. These products claim ACEA performance but also add a
number of upper tier OEM approvals such as BMW, Porsche, and DaimlerChrylser. Finally, at the top of the market
are fully synthetic products that are now moving to grades such as 0W-40. A distinguishing feature of almost all of
these products is the maintenance of a high temperature high shear rate (HTHS) viscosity of 3.5 cP in order to meet
the majority of European OEM requirements.

In addition to consumer products, a recent phenomenon is the development of OEM-specific factory fill lubricants
meeting the unique requirements of the OEM. What distinguishes these new generation factory fill oils is that they
are focusing on providing top level performance designed specifically for the OEM’s engine. The first generations
of these oils have been low viscosity products with reduced HTHS viscosity in order to improve fuel economy. The
current Volkswagen TDI factory fill specification 521.73 is an example of such oil. This VW OEM requirement specifies a
high performance 0W-30 for factory fill purposes. Both Mercedes Benz and Opel are also targeting similar specific
high performance fluids for factory fill application,
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow, this does read exactly like the VW TDI 506 OEM SPECS!


Amazing!




Totally awesome how all these things simply fit together.......
 

Georgeseq

Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Location
Columbus, Ohio
And as with my previous posts and thoughts regarding reduced viscosity as a means of achieving increased fuel efficiencies, yes, there is an obvious trend by auto manufacturers as it is 'free' increased mileage. In the CAFE loophole for cold fuel mileage determination, the increased mileages achieved would cost millions to achieve via engineering and design efficiencies. However, as with Ford and Honda, the reduced engine oil viscosity was not done with engine and component longevity in mind, other than the engine making it through warranty. They are sacrificing long term reliability for short term, CAFE loophole, gains.
It is interesting to note that Porsche, a manufacturer not conerned with fuel mileage figures, transitioned from 30W factory fill to full synthetic 0W-40 factory fill. Same with Mercedes AMG, Aston Martin, etc. These manufacturers are providing initial fill optimum viscosity for combined high performance and engine and component longevity.
George Morrison
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis of the situation George, the lower weights are designed specifically for a couple of percentage points increase in fuel economy.

The use of much higher quality basestocks also is lowering the Volatilty too, which is excellent throughout the entire engine, especially in the ring sticking and cylinder bore cleanliness, as well as alot less oil is vaporized out the CCV to gunk up the EGR (or get bypassed the piston rings and end up in the exhaust too).

Low volatily is a 100% dead giveaway on the utilization of higher quality more expensive basestocks!
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Originally posted by msauve:
As with many of 'pup's postings, this one was plagarized. Google it, and you'll find he stole it from a Chevron document: www.chevron.com/prodserv/BaseOils/docs/icis.pdf

VW uses a break-in oil. There is nothing to indicate that it would be suitable for continued useage, in fact VWoA specifically advises use of a 5W40 oil.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
LOL, way too phunny! :


Read some of it yourself!
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
The 0w-30 VW is using in Europe is very similiar to the new Mobil 1, 0w-30 "supersyn", with a HT/HS viscosity of approx 3.0 Cp @ 150C. They are ACEA "B5" rated oils and are significantly thinner than the older VW 505 spec stuff. I would NOT recommend these for the TDI - especially since mobil 1, 5w-30 has shown very high wear rates in the TDI.

Any 0w-30/5w-30/10w-30 synthetics used in the TDI (in the US) should pass the CH-4 rating for HD diesel engines. When the CI-4 spec becomes available, that would be even better ....

Currently those CH-4 rated oils include:

Redline 10w-30
Amsoil Series 3000, 5w-30
Petro Canada 0w-30
The new BP 5w-30 synthetic (European listers take note of this oil)

TooSlick

www.lubedealer.com/Dixie_Synthetics
 

Georgeseq

Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Location
Columbus, Ohio
There is only one Amsoil oil listed under API certification for CH-4 and that is Amsoil PCO 15W-40... The previous statement about the 30W being CH-4 rated??? Not according to the API listing.....
 

Tapokata

Gone, but not forgotten
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Location
Sacramento, CA
Originally posted by Georgeseq:
There is only one Amsoil oil listed under API certification for CH-4 and that is Amsoil PCO 15W-40... The previous statement about the 30W being CH-4 rated??? Not according to the API listing.....
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">George: My manual for my new 2k2 NB states CG-4 or higher. Is Amsoil 10W-40 CG-4 rated?? Thanks. Interested due to posts in these forums on Amsoil's lower volatility than Delvac or others...

Tapokata-
Walter Mitty's Life was no secret.
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Tapokata,

You won't have any oil consumption problems with Delvac 1. The amsoil 10w-40 does have a bit lower volatility, but both oils exhibit extremely low oil consumption. I believe both Delvac 1 and the Amsoil 10w-40 will pass the CI-4 ratings without reformulation, but that's just a guess.

Georgeseq,

I agree that the trend to 0w-30/0w-40 oils in Europe is driven partially by fuel efficiency considerations, but there are also high quality synthetics that were not generally available 10 years ago. Go back to 1996 and all the German manufacturers were recommending 15w-40/15w-50/20w-50 grades for hot weather autobahn driving ....Many of the "old school" guys like yourself are still using them in Europe


Ted
 

FowVay

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2000
Location
Georgia
TDI
2009 Jetta returned to der Führer
I have been hesitant to post onto the "OIL WAR" battlefield. I made the decision many years ago about which oil standards to follow and then chose the brands that met them. In a letter from Volkswagen of Germany they stated that I need to use a oil that meets the VW 505 standard in the viscosity of 5w-40. They never made mention of ACEA standards or API ratings. They recommend that I consult my dealership for technical data specific to my engine number but I have had absolutely horrible customer service from every VW dealer i've encountered in the USA. German dealerships seem to be much more professional and apparently VWag is unaware of how the US market is run.

I have included a 'copy and past' copy of the letter that they sent:

Ihr Motor hat wahrscheinlich die Norm VW 505.00 oder 5 W 40
Bitte lassen Sie aber dies mit Fahrgestellnummer beim VW Händler nochmal prüfen !

mfg
Hans Maier

I am only passing along information that I have gathered and am in no way trying to debate the issue.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
VWAG operates over 6 million TDIs in over a dozen different variations and increasing at a fantastic rate every day of the year, whilst VWOA operates around a 100,000 of the same lone lowly model...... not to mention the API has zero experience with HSDI passenger car engines....
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
It's only lowly compared to all the other TDIs running around all over Europe, North America is a virtual TDI wasteland, except for a few dedicated oel burners intent on educating the masses of the bounlessly ignorants......
 

troy_heagy

BANNED
Joined
Feb 23, 2001
Originally posted by Georgeseq:
And as with my previous posts and thoughts regarding reduced viscosity as a means of achieving increased fuel efficiencies... In the CAFE loophole for cold fuel mileage determination, the increased mileages achieved would cost millions to achieve via engineering and design efficiencies
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">George, please explain how Ford/Honda's switch from 5W-30 to 5W-20 improves *cold* engine efficiency? 5W=5W... I don't see any difference.

Troy
 
Top