End of Stick Shift?

What are people's thoughts on the DSG transmission...other that maintenance and purchase cost?

It's setup like a manual trans that is run by computer. And with the manual setting, the driver can change the gears him(or her)self. So it's basically the same as a manual...minus having to use the clutch.

Personally I could never get into shifting manually with it. I usually go by the sound of the engine more than anything to determine when to shift, and the GTI with the windows up is too quiet. I find myself looking at the TAC all the time...meh...I just leave it in Auto.

I haven't driven one of the newer TDIs. Can you still hear the engine in the cabin?

The Tiptronic function can be found on ALL modern VAG autoboxes sold here, it is not limited to just the DSG (although the DSG does seem to lend itself to that function a little better).

That Guy said:

What are people's thoughts on the DSG transmission...other that maintenance and purchase cost?

It's setup like a manual trans that is run by computer. And with the manual setting, the driver can change the gears him(or her)self. So it's basically the same as a manual...minus having to use the clutch.

Personally I could never get into shifting manually with it. I usually go by the sound of the engine more than anything to determine when to shift, and the GTI with the windows up is too quiet. I find myself looking at the TAC all the time...meh...I just leave it in Auto.

I haven't driven one of the newer TDIs. Can you still hear the engine in the cabin?

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On the JSW, the only times I've really used the manual shifting is when I was pulling something or when I first had it, in the mountains. Otherwise, I usually leave it in D and let the computer do the work. It does shift much earlier than I would shift a manual. Not unusual to be in 6th by 45 mph. Manual shifting did not work as well in the mountains but sport mode is a little better than D. On the Golf, I've used the paddle shifters for break in to vary the engine rpm while cruising and to play every once in a while.

With the refinements on the engine and the cabin insulation, it is harder to hear the engine and know when it wants to be shifted. Even in my beetle, I still went more by the tach than the engine.

bhtooefr said:

Even in Europe, the take rate for DCTs is climbing.

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9% for the Golf in Germany, and that's something Volkswagen brags about here. ("class-leading")
That still means 91% prefer a stick.

After moving my camper around in the driveway I've come to the conclusion that if I wanted an automatic then it must have a torque convertor. I can't imagine a DSG clutch "enjoying" a lot of operation at <5mph. I know the clutch in my manual didn't.

I luck out, and drive very little in city traffic. Even then, there's been times I've been stuck moving at <5mph. How does the DSG operate at these low speeds? Smoothly, or does it have to pulse and glide?

If I the car is stopped and I take my foot off the brake, but don't give it any gas, it just creeps along. Pretty smooth. I never noticed any pulse and glide. And that's with the GTI...so there wouldn't be a lot of power at idle.

I do it most often when I pull into the garage after the door opens. And it's on a bit of an up-hill slope. Kinda interesting that it doesn't stall the engine, or seem to have any issues at all.

Although, 1st gear does seem to be geared a bit low. Which is probably why it doesn't have a problem.

I'll have to pay more attention the next time I drive that car.

bhtooefr said:

There's a reason why automakers put upshift lights on cars

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Wow, they brought those back? I call them the "Dad light" because it tries to tell me what to do and I ignore it.

supton said:

I can't imagine a DSG clutch "enjoying" a lot of operation at <5mph. I know the clutch in my manual didn't.

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Isn't the DSG a wet-clutch design? If it is like other motorcycle wet clutches you would have to SEVERELY abuse it for a LONG time before you ever wore one out.

Beats me--I thought it was dry. I also am under the impression that at least the VW DSG's use the same problematic DMF. [Well, not the same exact one as in my car, but the same idea, with the same failure mode.] If it was wet though that might explain the short oil change interval.

There are both dry and wet disk DSGs. The only ones (so far) that we get here are wet. And yes they do eventually wear out.

The Jetta Hybrid will be the first US-spec car with the DQ250 dry clutch 7-speed DSG.

(Generally, it's stuck behind anything smaller than about 1.8 liters (it would actually work behind a 2.sl0 or 2.5, but those get slushboxes for whatever reason). The 1.6 TDIs max it out nowadays.)

We've always gotten the DQ350 6-speed wet clutch DSG (there's a reason, by the way, that the 170 hp TDI has 258 ft-lbs torque - that's the max that the transmissions currently used in Golfs can take).

Transporters in Europe get a DQ500 6-speed wet clutch DSG, designed to hold the torque of a bi-turbo 2.0 TDI.

Quick question: If the wet DSG has the 40k mile service interval, what (if any) recommended service interval does the dry DSG have?

On every motorcoaches I've ever ridden on, they are all equipped with a Detroit Diesel Series 60 engine with a 6-speed Allison slushbox (B500R), with torque converter locked up all the time when coach moving at 30 km/h or faster.

Although in recent years I've spotted MCI motorcoaches with 12-speed ZF automated manuals (ZF-astronic), but I've never ridden them.

Urban bus are always equipped with slushboxes since the 80's. All of them. (Usually Voith DIWA, ZF Ecomat/Ecolife, or Allison B400).

That Guy said:

I haven't driven one of the newer TDIs. Can you still hear the engine in the cabin?

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2011 Jetta TDI. Engine sounds can be clearly heard in the cabin, unless it's highway cruising with the windows open.

NarfBLAST said:

Quick question: If the wet DSG has the 40k mile service interval, what (if any) recommended service interval does the dry DSG have?

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7-speed DSG is lifetime fill.

Which makes sense, as it's basically just a weirdly laid out manual transmission, as far as maintenance requirements go. No clutch debris in the fluid. In fact, the 7-speed DSG uses G 052 512 A2 fluid, which is the same gear oil that has been used since February 2007 in 02J, 0A4, and 02S transmissions, and isn't exotic at all.

Edit: If you're interested in technical details on the dry DSG... http://forum.quattroruote.it/posts/downloadAttach/12858.page