2015 VW Golf TDI SportWagen Concept: New York Auto Show Debut

PlaneCrazy · Apr 18, 2014

SilverGhost said:
So I was going over the Self Study for EA288 again and caught another detail that concerned me (refering to Passat Turbo thread).

I thought I had also read about post combustion injections that sent unburnt fuel into the cat to help raise temperature, depending on conditions. EDIT: this is to start active regeneration.

It's way too early to make assumptions, but I definately will wait until cars with this engine have some miles on them to see how the turbo holds up to the heat load.

Jason

Ref: SSP 820433

Well our current TDIs have post-combustion for DPF regens, so we should have some experience with the added heat. From what I've heard (I think from Oilhammer), the current CRs do indeed have more turbo issues. Whether the newer engine has any more issues remains to be seen, but with any new VW engine, I prefer reading about some field experience before springing for it. I got burned on the BHW with the balance shaft issue, and on my CR with IC icing and an HPFP replacement (that turned out to be bogus as it didn't solve the problem they said it would solve).

IndigoBlueWagon · Apr 18, 2014

There are a lot of common rail cars out there with well over 100K miles on them (timing belt kits for these cars are selling pretty well) and we hear of relatively few turbo failures. Fewer, for certain, than on BEWs of similar vintage and mileage. Seems that very gently driven common rail cars that may experience DPF clogging will take out the turbo, but I don't think that's a very common event.

These turbos work hard by most standards: 23 PSI max boost stock, EGTs that are 1200+ very frequently because of passive and active regens. But these seem to be standing up pretty well.

ssamalin · Apr 18, 2014

There isn't a thread for turbo failures for other engines besides the Passats. That is proof enough for me. Nobody is out to put them down. I would rather buy one if I thought they were reliable. VW TDI is technological genius, but it still isn't, and early looks like the EA288 isn't, over the last bump. But I am very eager to put it to the test and jump on it if it is clear.

SilverGhost · Apr 18, 2014

PlaneCrazy said:
Well our current TDIs have post-combustion for DPF regens, so we should have some experience with the added heat. From what I've heard (I think from Oilhammer), the current CRs do indeed have more turbo issues. Whether the newer engine has any more issues remains to be seen, but with any new VW engine, I prefer reading about some field experience before springing for it. I got burned on the BHW with the balance shaft issue, and on my CR with IC icing and an HPFP replacement (that turned out to be bogus as it didn't solve the problem they said it would solve).

Minor correction (see highlighted in red). The CR engine injects fuel after the combustion event, that vaporizes but does not burn, to initiate a DPF regeneration. The vaporized fuel flows out with the exhaust and ignites in the DOC, which causes the DPF temperature to rise high enough to burn off soot.

The detail I was pointing out is the secondary injection events that happen during the combustion event and do ignition in the cylinder. That additional heat is then transfered to the exhaust (including turbo).

But to be perfectly honest I don't know if the CR in J/G/B does this already. From people's observations with VCDS and scan gauge it does happen in Passat. I'm hoping that VW has learned from the failures experienced already and made durability improvements. That said I'm not going to be first to buy any new designs, gas, diesel, or otherwise.

Jason

Rubiconws6 · Apr 19, 2014

The wife wants a Pilot badly, but I'll buy a 4Motion if VW comes through. The mileage will be nice since she drives 80 miles daily.

kjclow · Apr 20, 2014

SilverGhost said:
Minor correction (see highlighted in red). The CR engine injects fuel after the combustion event, that vaporizes but does not burn, to initiate a DPF regeneration. The vaporized fuel flows out with the exhaust and ignites in the DOC, which causes the DPF temperature to rise high enough to burn off soot.

The detail I was pointing out is the secondary injection events that happen during the combustion event and do ignition in the cylinder. That additional heat is then transfered to the exhaust (including turbo).

But to be perfectly honest I don't know if the CR in J/G/B does this already. From people's observations with VCDS and scan gauge it does happen in Passat. I'm hoping that VW has learned from the failures experienced already and made durability improvements. That said I'm not going to be first to buy any new designs, gas, diesel, or otherwise.

Jason

My limited understanding is that both the Passat and J/G/B engines have the post ignition event to help burn the soot. The difference being that the Passat DPF regens do not happen as often or as hot as the Jettas due to the urea. However, it does appear that the Passats have a very aggressive warm up cycle which is different from the Jetta.

p06781 · Apr 20, 2014

I would gladly give up my subaru legacy gt 5mt wagon for a new golf wagon 4m 6mt tdi ! Bring it on VW! Sportwagons rule the PNW!
AWD really doesnt chew up tires that much faster and is so nice in the snow, ice we get in the PNW .

twopassats-one-TDI · Apr 20, 2014

p06781 said:
I would gladly give up my subaru legacy gt 5mt wagon for a new golf wagon 4m 6mt tdi ! Bring it on VW! Sportwagons rule the PNW!
AWD really doesnt chew up tires that much faster and is so nice in the snow, ice we get in the PNW .

I was I'm agreement with you until you said that AWD doesn't chew up tires that much faster. AWD definitely does shorten tire life. It might differ car to car but it increase wear

LRTDI · Apr 21, 2014

Rubiconws6 said:
The wife wants a Pilot badly, but I'll buy a 4Motion if VW comes through. The mileage will be nice since she drives 80 miles daily.

19mpg for a Pilot v 40mpg in a tdi swings the financial senseometer in the Tdi favor very quickly.

PlaneCrazy · Apr 21, 2014

LRTDI said:
19mpg for a Pilot v 40mpg in a tdi swings the financial senseometer in the Tdi favor very quickly.

Not to mention purchase price is much lower for the TDI.

scrubber · Apr 21, 2014

Rubiconws6 said:
since she drives 80 miles daily.

Eugene and back?

Oberkanone · Apr 21, 2014

tooling

At this point, AWD is a tease, VW won't decide until later this year the tooling investment for AWD for Puebla.

Volkswagen AG has pulled back on plans to sell a souped-up diesel Golf called the GTD in the United States because importing the GTI sibling’s engine would add too much cost.
The high-powered 2-liter TDI engine used in the GTD cannot be produced at VW’s engine plant in Silao, Mexico, so it would be imported from Germany, Volkswagen Group of America CEO Michael Horn told reporters today.
“The GTD would be a great car,” Horn said, but with that added cost, “the price point is not really attractive. So the probability is sort of diminishing.”
Volkswagen said last year that the GTD likely would arrive in the United States next year. At a press event in Germany, Andres Valbuena, product manager for the Golf, told reporters then that the GTD probably would be priced around $27,000.
“We see it as a very important part of our full range of offerings, a technology halo for our diesel technology,” Valbuena said at the time.
Horn said he couldn’t say why the engine couldn’t be made at the Silao plant, which VW opened in 2013 with annual capacity of 330,000 engines. That plant will build the less powerful diesel engine used in the Golf TDI.
VW plans to roll out the rest of the Golf family in the United States during the coming year in its biggest wave of product introductions since the launch of the redesigned Passat and Beetle in 2011 and 2012.
The gasoline-fueled GTI will arrive at U.S. dealerships in May, followed by the Golf and Golf TDI in August. The electric e-Golf will go on sale in the fall, with the Golf SportWagen and top-of-the-line Golf R following in early 2015.
Passat refresh; awd possible from Mexico
Horn gave several other updates today on VW’s product lineup:
• The midcycle update of the Passat next year will be more aggressive than the Jetta refresh unveiled in New York. The update of the Jetta is a “decent” step, Horn said, but the Passat’s freshening will be “a big step.” It will include VW’s new MIB infotainment system, used in the Golf family.
• VW will offer a value-priced Golf with a TDI diesel engine to appeal to economical buyers. U.S. buyers already can get a “value edition” of the Jetta sedan, starting at just above $22,115 including freight.
• VW will decide this summer whether to invest in all-wheel-drive tooling at VW’s assembly plant in Puebla, Mexico. That would reduce the cost of awd versions of cars such as the Golf and Golf SportWagen.
• The current Scirocco will not come to the United States, Horn said, because it was not designed for U.S. safety standards. He said the Scirocco might come to the United States “if there’s a successor.”
• Now that VW has ended a partnership with Daimler AG that allowed VW to sell rebadged Sprinter vans under the Crafter name, VW is considering bringing the next-generation Crafter to the United States.

German_1er_diesel · Apr 22, 2014

Oberkanone said:
At this point, AWD is a tease, VW won't decide until later this year the tooling investment for AWD for Puebla.

Tooling investment for AWD in Puebla?
100% of all Euro-market AWD Golf wagons since 2007 (launch of the MkV wagon) have been made in Puebla.
100% of all MkVII 4motion wagons (in production since late summer 2013) have been made in Puebla.

I would assume the tooling is already there, since we Euros can already buy a used AWD MKVII wagon.

Tureq · Apr 23, 2014

German_1er_diesel said:
Tooling investment for AWD in Puebla?
100% of all Euro-market AWD Golf wagons since 2007 (launch of the MkV wagon) have been made in Puebla.
100% of all MkVII 4motion wagons (in production since late summer 2013) have been made in Puebla.
I would assume the tooling is already there, since we Euros can already buy a used AWD MKVII wagon.

Mark VII wagons for europeans is made in germany... Not in Puebla as MK5 and MK6.

German_1er_diesel · Apr 23, 2014

Tureq said:
Mark VII wagons for europeans is made in germany... Not in Puebla as MK5 and MK6.

Looked it up - you are right, I was wrong. It's made in Zwickau. Sorry for the confusion.

Rubiconws6 · Apr 25, 2014

PlaneCrazy said:
Not to mention purchase price is much lower for the TDI.

LRTDI said:
19mpg for a Pilot v 40mpg in a tdi swings the financial senseometer in the Tdi favor very quickly.

All agreed, but logic, reason, and value are sometimes lost with the wife.

scrubber said:
Eugene and back?

She drives to Salem and back. I drive to Eugene and back everyday.

Seacoaster · Apr 25, 2014

Although it seems VAG never makes the right decisions, I think they will bring this concept for sure, and here is why. The A4 has always been the excuse not to bring the AWD JSW, the A4 is coming in diesel, the avant is gone with no pending return that I have heard of, and now you must buy an allroad to get a Audi wagon. The price on the Allroad is $40k+, hence leaving room and a place for an AWD wagon that can be priced between the VW and Audi price points as well a market that can be tapped without really affecting Audi sales. Well that is my logic anyway, as well in some interactions, VW has been very open with me about there intentions. So the question for me is what to do for the next year or so until we see them readily available? I am planning to dump the TSX wagon, as frankly I hate it and have been planning on picking up an A4 Avant(used) as I really need AWD. Hold or punt.........

TDIRoady · Apr 26, 2014

Latest reviews for 2015 Sportwagen

HeAvYfUeL said:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news...i-sportwagen-concept-new-york-auto-show-debut
What VW is calling the Volkswagen Golf SportWagen will be an additional model in the all-new 2015 Volkswagen Golf and GTI range, though the company calls the car it will show in New York technically a concept.
But it's the same Golf wagon that's been on sale in Europe for more than a year now, and that requires a bit of explanation.
Volkswagen Golf SportWagen Concept - 2014 New York Auto ShowVolkswagen Golf SportWagen Concept - 2014 New York Auto Show
U.S. buyers prefer sedans over hatchbacks, which is why we purchase many more Jetta compact sedans than Golf hatchbacks.
So Volkswagen has always sold the SportWagen model--which is a Golf wagon outside North America--as a Jetta model in the U.S.
Now, it appears, VW wants to standardize its global model range, so the all-new wagon based on the seventh generation of the Golf will now be dubbed a Golf here too.
The New York "concept" Golf SportWagen will show off not only an all-new 2.0-liter TDI diesel engine but also VW's 4Motion all-wheel-drive system.
The new wagon, Volkswagen says, is lighter, more powerful, and more fuel-efficient than the outgoing Jetta SportWagen.
Specifically, it's 1.1 inches longer, 0.7 inches wider, and despite 0.4 inches of increase headroom front and rear, almost an inch lower.

This was in the latest Chicago Tribune re; the 2015 Sportwagen..reviews from 4 writers;

2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagen

AB: Winner
VW says this is a concept and that the production version may not have the 4Motion all-wheel drive when it finally arrives to replace the Jetta SportWagen. Actually, what I want is a SportWagen the way this "concept" car is made up to look like: a Golf R Wagon. That's the one I'd buy, in a heartbeat. But I guess even a TDI diesel version would be pretty slick.

JW: Winner
There's a long-running joke/truth that car reviewers have disproportionate love for three things: manual transmissions, wagons and diesel engines. Win!

MH: Winner
The interior is richer than some of Volkswagen's recent efforts, most notably the Jetta sedan, so maybe that signals VW is getting back in the business of high-grade cabins, an area where it crushed the competition for a long time. Otherwise, I like the level of utility this small wagon offers.

JB: Winner
This was an easy one: wagon, diesel engine, all-wheel drive, manual transmission and sport package? This "concept" needs a production version confirmation as soon as possible. Take away all-wheel drive and the sport package and you still have a winner with the production-ready SportWagen, which is now better proportioned on the outside and more functional on the inside.

kjclow · Apr 26, 2014

Most of those comments sounds like they have no idea that the Sportswagen already exsists. Sure it's not a "R" or awd, but...

Mcgink · Apr 27, 2014

Rubiconws6 said:
All agreed, but logic, reason, and value are sometimes lost with the wife.

If her car payment and fuel costs come out of her own $ paycheck then lower fuel cost and payment would equal More shoes, Yes?

Shaeet · Apr 27, 2014

That article is a bit mis-leading. It says "VAG bringing AWD Manual Diesel wagon to states". Sure they are bringing one to the NY Auto show but how/where did they get the information regarding it being confirmed for sale in the future? YOu'd think there would be other media outlets with that information as it is pretty ground-breaking if true. I'd be completely astonished if any form of a AWD TDI wagon appears state-side, let alone a MkVII variant. We can be hopeful but look at their history of ruining model line-ups (ahem A3, passat wagon)

My guess:
-MkVII Sportwagen TDI will be FWD only
-MkVII Sportwagen non-TDI MAY have an AWD version with the new 1.8T motor

My worries:
-MkVII Sportwagen TDI won't be offered in 6-speed Manual any longer. That seems to be the route most manufacturers are going which is sad.

My wishes:
-Audi A4 Avant offered in TDI form with 6-speed manual. Wouldn't care if it was FWD but would prefer AWD. I'd buy one in a heartbeat!! IMO the "All-Road" is hideous with the 2-tone flared fenders. Why would they model it after a Subaru Outback? blows my mind....

PlaneCrazy · Apr 27, 2014

Shaeet said:
That article is a bit mis-leading. It says "VAG bringing AWD Manual Diesel wagon to states". Sure they are bringing one to the NY Auto show but how/where did they get the information regarding it being confirmed for sale in the future? YOu'd think there would be other media outlets with that information as it is pretty ground-breaking if true. I'd be completely astonished if any form of a AWD TDI wagon appears state-side, let alone a MkVII variant. We can be hopeful but look at their history of ruining model line-ups (ahem A3, passat wagon)

My guess:
-MkVII Sportwagen TDI will be FWD only
-MkVII Sportwagen non-TDI MAY have an AWD version with the new 1.8T motor

My worries:
-MkVII Sportwagen TDI won't be offered in 6-speed Manual any longer. That seems to be the route most manufacturers are going which is sad.

My wishes:
-Audi A4 Avant offered in TDI form with 6-speed manual. Wouldn't care if it was FWD but would prefer AWD. I'd buy one in a heartbeat!! IMO the "All-Road" is hideous with the 2-tone flared fenders. Why would they model it after a Subaru Outback? blows my mind....

Agreed. The A4 Avant wagon was a classy looking car (but we got it with AT only in Canada in the current generation). The Allroad is ugly and that cladding is just another place for dirt and grit to get caught behind and prematurely rust.

I think the pinnacle of wagons was the 2005 Passat. Available with AWD with the 1.8T and 5-sp manual or automatic, and the TDI, alas automatic only. My previous B6 Passat wagon was a 2.0T manual and it was great; AWD was only available with the (very expensive) VR6.

I really fear that VW will pull off a "All-track" with the Mk VII and take us down the route of the Allroad making it the only version available. Which would really suck, and which is why we bought a Mk V (2013 wagon); we found a Comfortline with manual tranny and jumped on it!

IndigoBlueWagon · Apr 27, 2014

Drove down to NYC today and saw the Sportwagen, or Variant.

Talked to a couple of the marketing folks they always have at these shows, and both said it's "highly likely" we'll see this car in the US. The woman I spoke to was from Canada, and said it was more likely to come here than there. But I'd take all of that with a very large grain of salt. The interior is same as the MKVII Golf hatch. Nicer materials than the VI, but more shiny bits than I'd like.

The 2015 facelifted Jetta was there, too. Now it has a complete cluster with real fuel and temperature gauges and it looks great.

PlaneCrazy · Apr 27, 2014

IndigoBlueWagon said:
Talked to a couple of the marketing folks they always have at these shows, and both said it's "highly likely" we'll see this car in the US. The woman I spoke to was from Canada, and said it was more likely to come here than there. But I'd take all of that with a very large grain of salt.

That would be just crazy. I'd say after the Jetta, the Golf Wagon is VW's biggest seller in my part of Canada. Why on earth they would so something so crazy is beyond me.

IndigoBlueWagon · Apr 27, 2014

She was referring to the 4-motion version, didn't comment on whether or not the Variant was coming to Canada in FWD. I would assume you'd get the same as the US.

Louis_TDI · Apr 27, 2014

PlaneCrazy said:
That would be just crazy. I'd say after the Jetta, the Golf Wagon is VW's biggest seller in my part of Canada. Why on earth they would so something so crazy is beyond me.

The Americans get more colour choices on there tdi's then we do so I can see them doing it.

stayalert · Apr 28, 2014

I emailed a dealer near me about an AWD diesel wagen coming in 2015…This is what he replied…..

"That's going to be the Golf Sportwagen TDI. It is coming out for the 2015 model year and will be the first AWD Diesel wagon. It's also rumored to get around 70 mpg highway, but it's too early to know for sure."

70MPG

frugality · Apr 28, 2014

Louis_TDI said:
The Americans get more colour choices on there tdi's then we do so I can see them doing it.

You get colours.

We get colors.

frugality · Apr 28, 2014

stayalert said:
I emailed a dealer near me about an AWD diesel wagen coming in 2015…This is what he replied…..

"That's going to be the Golf Sportwagen TDI. It is coming out for the 2015 model year and will be the first AWD Diesel wagon. It's also rumored to get around 70 mpg highway, but it's too early to know for sure."

70MPG

Yeah, there were a lot of rumors in 2009 that the Mk6 JSW/Golf Wagon would get 60mpg, too.

arne487 · Apr 28, 2014

I heard that with AWD it will get 90 MPG.

2015 VW Golf TDI SportWagen Concept: New York Auto Show Debut

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