09 died 2 miles from house HPFP?

I just got in from sea and went to take my TDi into town. It has sat for about 6 weeks with a full tank of fuel, biocide, and power service. It started no problem and I let it idle for about 1 full minute. I drove 2 miles down the road and noticed I had no power. It would idle, but would not gain any RPMs. I pulled over and could hear it crackling sort of like when ether is sprayed into a diesel. Any throttle made it want to die more until it finally did die.

While waiting for the 1.5 hours for VW's "certified tow truck" (I broke down right in front of a non certified tow trucks yard ironically), I tried the car a few more times. Each time it would start but immediately stutter and die. I let it sit about 45 minutes and tried again and it ran rough for about 15 seconds before dying. Tried again 15 minutes later and it started taking some throttle. I was able to get to 1500rpm and it studdered and crackled, then I heard what sounded like air rushing through the lines. After about 3 minutes it smoothed out and I drove it the 2 miles home where the tow truck met me. They still took it to the dealership, but I was wondering if I could get any feedback on my issue.

It didnt' remind me of air in the fuel like I've experience with my trucks and tractors in the past. Usually they just sputter. This had an obvious crack to it like highly advanced timing or ether being sprayed in. I'm doubting gelling since it was 40*F outside and it had additive. Is this sounding like an HPFP or just simply air in the lines from.... I'm not sure from what?

Thanks,

Luke

Can we stop this, please?

Here's what I said in this similar and equally clueless thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=300602

"My cat had the runs yesterday, could it be my HPFP?

Look, don't get spooked so easily. If the pump fails, the car stops. Any other symptoms can not be related to HPFP failure.

So, if you "hear a noise", "smell something", "see smoke", have a warning light flash, lose your A/C, blow a fuse, crack your windshield, pop a tire, lose heat, get lost, etc., but your car is still running, well, you know.

Now excuse me, I have to put on loose boxers and go to the airport for a patdown, I'm lonely.

P."

All these ridiculous and somewhat frivolous threads do is pump up the search count (Search for HPFP failure found 6,000,000 entries). They do no good.

Please stop it. If you are diagnosed with HPFP failure, by all means post your experience and resolution.

If you are thinking about it, worried about it, considering it, feeling it, know somebody who said...whatever. Stop. Please.

Please.

Please.

P.

My best guess is a HPFP failure will most likely make the car run worse over time till the car just won't run anymore.

It is possible that the biocide killed some algae that was in your tank and the dead algae make it to your fuel filter, clogging it.

Not sure about the "crackling sound" you hear. Would have to hear it.

Either is death to a Diesel. The sound you here when you use it is uncontrolled detonation. People have destroyed Diesels with Either. Best bet, if a Diesel engine doesn't start, is to fix the problem that caused the hard starting.

Other than that, if you are going to fix it yourself you need to:

• Do a close visual inspection of the engine compartment for anything amiss.
• Do a VCDS scan for DTC codes.

Keep us advised......................

Paul,
While this does not sound like it is an HPFP issue, there is a member who has a problem with his car. He posted here looking for opinions and help.

He certainly got a opinion from you - but no help.

This person has not read the myriad threads that you have. He is not part of a movement intended to infuriate you. I generally support your efforts to stop HPFP hysteria, but...

He's just a guy with a car problem. Give him a break.

Luke,
What was the weather before you left for sea? Was it damp and wet, just at freezing? There have been cases before where moisture has built up in the intercooler lines, apparently freezing into ice coatings, then later melting and causing problems with MAF's and engine operation. Or the air system growing close due to ice build up. It does not have to be below freezing to get intake icing.

In any case it does not sound as if it is an HPFP failure on the surface of it.

No way to tell until you get it scanned. Lack of throttle response does sound a bit like a clogged fuel filter, or other fuel supply issue. Nailing sound can come with fuel supply issue as rail pressure is low, or varying all over the place and as ecu tries react, fuel timing can be whatever and you get a good hearty diesel knock.

Hopefully your filter canister is not all full of skunk when they look at it.

Ol'Rattler said:

Either is death to a Diesel. The sound you here when you use it is uncontrolled detonation. People have destroyed Diesels with Either. Best bet, if a Diesel engine doesn't start, is to fix the problem that caused the hard starting.

Click to expand...

Don't worry, I did not add ether to the car. I said it SOUNDS like ether being used to start a cold diesel with the "pre ignition" if you will. I know ether isn't super nice to your upper cylinder lubrication, but heck, some diesels have ether injection for cold starting instead of glow plugs or grid heaters. But this is neither here nor there.

PaulGiz said:

Can we stop this, please?
Here's what I said in this similar and equally clueless thread:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=300602

"My cat had the runs yesterday, could it be my HPFP?

Look, don't get spooked so easily. If the pump fails, the car stops. Any other symptoms can not be related to HPFP failure.

So, if you "hear a noise", "smell something", "see smoke", have a warning light flash, lose your A/C, blow a fuse, crack your windshield, pop a tire, lose heat, get lost, etc., but your car is still running, well, you know.

Now excuse me, I have to put on loose boxers and go to the airport for a patdown, I'm lonely.

P."

All these ridiculous and somewhat frivolous threads do is pump up the search count (Search for HPFP failure found 6,000,000 entries). They do no good.

Please stop it. If you are diagnosed with HPFP failure, by all means post your experience and resolution.

If you are thinking about it, worried about it, considering it, feeling it, know somebody who said...whatever. Stop. Please.

Please.

Please.

P.

Click to expand...

uh...thanks...

DanG144 said:

Luke,
What was the weather before you left for sea? Was it damp and wet, just at freezing? There have been cases before where moisture has built up in the intercooler lines, apparently freezing into ice coatings, then later melting and causing problems with MAF's and engine operation. Or the air system growing close due to ice build up. It does not have to be below freezing to get intake icing.

In any case it does not sound as if it is an HPFP failure on the surface of it.

Click to expand...

hmmm, it was probably damp and just above freezing. It has been freezing or just above since I've been home the past 2 days. However, it was 40*F when I left today. It was the end of October (6 weeks ago) when it was last run.

I've used the biocide before in all the diesels when I go to sea. No issues so far. I've had bugs in my diesel before with my old Mercedes and I remember black spots on my filter. However, it was sitting for 3 months in summer, not 6 weeks in colder weather. I guess we'll see when the dealership calls back.

Your sig says you are in Maine...I don't think I would use a biocide in a northern car unless there was a problem. The only diesels I have seen with fungus problems were in hot, humid climates. I'm not saying what you have is related to biocide I am just saying I would be careful about what additives I used in a CR engine for obvious reasons.

If it were my car I would have it towed home, crack open the fuel filter and examine the contents. If it looked OK close it up and have it brought to the dealer. If not, then you might want to consider having the tank drained and flushed and filled with fresh fuel before trying a dealer's service department.

My guess is you have either a clogged filter or leak somewhere in the fuel system. The noises you heard can be caused by air bubbles in the fuel while it is trying to inject. I would have guessed your car would throw a CEL with symptoms like you described but you didn't mention it.

Did you add powerservice in the white or gray bottle? Only the white has anti-gel additives.

Yes I'm in Maine, but I used to go to sea for 3 months at a time. I have had a fungus issue in my old Mercedes. I only go for about 1 month at a time now, but continue to use biocide out of habit since it was such a pain in the butt.

I always use White Power Service.

Dealership just called: Can't find anything. Filter clean....

DZL_Damon said:

Yes I'm in Maine, but I used to go to sea for 3 months at a time. I have had a fungus issue in my old Mercedes. I only go for about 1 month at a time now, but continue to use biocide out of habit since it was such a pain in the butt.

I always use White Power Service.

Dealership just called: Can't find anything. Filter clean....

Click to expand...

Good news on the filter...I bet there is either a fuel leak or maybe one of the lift pumps isn't working. I'd guess they can find it pretty easily.

I just remembered he said the fuel looked "milky" which sounds like water to me? However, I'm reading through some other posts about metal specs in the filter and his fuel looked "dusty". I'll have to start looking for myself. This car was supposed to be the car I didn't have to mess with. However, I've had more issues with this car than my old trucks it seems.

Right now they are doing something with the transmission since it bangs when downshifting...

Why doubt gelling? How cold had it been overnight? Fuel from 6 weeks ago may not have been sufficiently winterized for now, even with some additive.

Any word from the dealer yet?

Please ask the dealer to give you the codes the engine had.

MayorDJQ said:

Why doubt gelling? How cold had it been overnight? Fuel from 6 weeks ago may not have been sufficiently winterized for now, even with some additive.

Any word from the dealer yet?

Click to expand...

If he's using PS white bottle, it shouldn't be a gelling issue.

Odd, I'll def keep checking back to see what the dealer says about this one.

740GLE said:

If he's using PS white bottle, it shouldn't be a gelling issue.

Odd, I'll def keep checking back to see what the dealer says about this one.

Click to expand...

Shouldn't, but guaranteed? How much protection does white PS in non-winterized Diesel offer?

Your issue sounds like it might be related to water/ice buildup in the intercooler hose, which would be much less severe than a HPFP failure.

See the "Cold Start/Scare" thread

And Paul - Lighten Up!

Not looking at the car, I would bet icing in the fuel system from water accumulation. Do you know it was coming from the fuel system?

Either that or your air filter has an issue, did you check to see if a mouse had made a nest in it over that length of time? They're prevalent this time of year and looking for a winter home. I found a mouse nest in mine and my girlfriends air filters (complete with cat food), and neither have ever sat more than a weekend in one spot. I can't imagine a car sitting for 6 weeks without having a mouse move in.

Dealer called: Car is ready. No code. Filter clean. No suggestions.... great

I'm leaning against an air issue due to the heavy knocking/ "pre ignition" if you will. Also, when it started to run (and it was still rough) I could hear the same noise my mother's heater registers would make when they needed air bled out of them. An almost gurgling noise like air was being pushed through the return lines.

I would expect it more if one of my old trucks or the tractor to leak back air into the system, but my new car?? It was on a full tank with only 49 miles since it was filled up.

Mice

Do watch for mice thou ,last week I found a nest under the hood around the battery.

Good news that it was not worse case. But, sorry to read that you did not et a definitive answer. I am sure that it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling as you approach the long cold winter an venture miles from home. Keep the VW tow number handy, a survival bag packed and the cell phone charged. Add some hooch & make the best of it. Heres to hoping the problem does not revisit.

Do you know if they pulled the intercooler air hoses off? I would do that if they did not. Just to ensure there is no significant liquid build up.

DZL_Damon said:

Dealer called: Car is ready. No code. Filter clean. No suggestions.... great

Click to expand...

Glad to hear it wasn't anything major.

Can you change the title of the thread to properly reflect what happened? Thanks.

numl0ck said:

Glad to hear it wasn't anything major.

Can you change the title of the thread to properly reflect what happened? Thanks.

Click to expand...

+1. Every time "HPFP" appears in a thread title, there is going to be a "there goes another one" reaction, when in reality, the issue isn't HPFP related.

How about every time "HPFP" appears on the forum that we all take a 'shot' of our favorite liquor. That should provide for some interesting discussion (one way or the other).

^^ +1

I don't understand why people get so defensive when a poster asks if a problem could be HPFP related. No one seems to get this annoyed when someone asks about yet another case of low power, a possible bad cam, or a bad DMF.

If you guys want, we can delete the whole thing since everyone is so darn sensitive over this fuel pump issue. When I did a search, all I saw was a bunch of people talking about the metal flecks, nothing about what HAPPENED to their cars!! My car died. I did some quick searching and found this HPFP issue JUST 2 DAYS AGO. I thought, hey... maybe some of these guys could clue me in if this is the problem... OR NOT. No big deal.

The car is at the dealership still. I have no clue what happened, and clearly neither does the dealership. I'm sorry my inquisition of a problem in the title is disappointing so many people. I've never experienced this type of "help" on all the other forums I've seeked and given help in.

To all those with constructive answers: Thank you.

DZL_Damon said:

If you guys want, we can delete the whole thing since everyone is so darn sensitive over this fuel pump issue. When I did a search, all I saw was a bunch of people talking about the metal flecks, nothing about what HAPPENED to their cars!! My car died. I did some quick searching and found this HPFP issue JUST 2 DAYS AGO. I thought, hey... maybe some of these guys could clue me in if this is the problem... OR NOT. No big deal.

The car is at the dealership still. I have no clue what happened, and clearly neither does the dealership. I'm sorry my inquisition of a problem in the title is disappointing so many people. I've never experienced this type of "help" on all the other forums I've seeked and given help in.

To all those with constructive answers: Thank you.

Click to expand...

I don't speak for anyone else, but I don't think most of those HPFP comments were really directed at you or your situation (I know mine wasn't). There's just been a lot of hysteria and hyperbole about HPFP on the site as a whole and you just happened to unknowingly 'step on a landmine' with your choice of a title.

You have a legitimate problem and concern, you posted a legitimate question and asked for help. I assure you that you've come to the right place and that you'll find people very willing to help. We'll behave now

tcp_ip_dude said:

I don't speak for anyone else, but I don't think most of those HPFP comments were really directed at you or your situation (I know mine wasn't). There's just been a lot of hysteria and hyperbole about HPFP on the site as a whole and you just happened to unknowingly 'step on a landmine' with your choice of a title.

You have a legitimate problem and concern, you posted a legitimate question and asked for help. I assure you that you've come to the right place and that you'll find people very willing to help. We'll behave now

Click to expand...

As far as I'm concerned with all the "hysteria and hyperbole" if you don't want to read about it dont read it! Keep your worthless coments to your self. It's just like TV, if you don't like what's on change the channel! After all it's a free country, isn't it?

Look, not every issue that happens with an '09 or newer TDI is related to the HPFP. Human nature always assumes the worst first, and this is why we see many threads started asking about this when no issue with the HPFP exists. The alarmist folks revel in it, and the deniers loathe it. The reasonable folks get caught in the middle.
Either way, this is done.