Starter Issue, Grinding!?!?

Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Location
New York
TDI
2003 VW ALH MK4 5 Speed
Hello, I recently replaced a clutch on my 2003 Volkswagen TDI MK4 Jetta with the 02J 5 Speed. While I was a few hundred in the job, I decided that I would replace the starter as it would wine after initial start up for a about 2 seconds, but go away. It would also not do it every single time I started it. So, today, I was parked and then went to start it, and it grinded really loud, and sounded very unhealthy. I pulled the starter, and checked the ring gear teeth, which looked like a little chaffed from something hit it. I checked the starter, and the gears look like it's been contacted and wearing. Just put it back in, and still same noise and grind. What can I do? Is it something from my clutch? I've prolly put 200 miles since clutch replacement. Has maybe progressed since. Please let me know!!!
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Did you put the right starter in. There is a starter for the auto transmission cars and a slightly different one for the manual transmission vehicles. I bet you were sold the wrong starter.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Location
New York
TDI
2003 VW ALH MK4 5 Speed
Well that's what I thought put the part number on the starter matches the one called for this transmission. It's a carquest part number 17755. Maybe I should try a Napa?
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
I have a NAPA lifetime starter in my Jetta and it lasted about 6 years. When it started eating it's own teeth, I went to NAPA and got a free replacement.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Apologies in advance, that old starter was likely still good. Just needed the clutch dust blown out of it. Maybe you still have it?
Issue now is the replacement unit is likely poor quality. ...internet guess....
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Apologies in advance, that old starter was likely still good. Just needed the clutch dust blown out of it. Maybe you still have it?
Issue now is the replacement unit is likely poor quality. ...internet guess....
I just did a clutch job on the wife's car. It seems like it's cranking faster than before. It's a big-box automotive store starter (needed something in a hurry; I'll be digging into the original starter as a winter project). I wiped things down, though didn't open up to grease. It would appear, to me, that cleaning off some of the clutch dust, as BobnOH mentions, DOES help.

Pull the starter. Look it over. Bench test: watch to see how the solenoid works and whether it's really spinning up well. Return for replacement if it seems suspect.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Location
New York
TDI
2003 VW ALH MK4 5 Speed
I pulled the little rubber cap off of the transmission. Spun the engine over, and I can see teeth being grounded down due to the starter. I just installed the LUK Clutch Kit, Part number 7447-09068759. Very easy to install, and limited error to be made. It is a OEM based clutch kit which didn't really acquire many odd tools. Could it be the clutch?? I'm thinking for trying another starter before taking apart the transmission again. Are there any shims that need to be used?
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Location
New York
TDI
2003 VW ALH MK4 5 Speed
Are you saying the brand new starter is toast within 200 miles?:confused:
Actually it was a reman starter....(edited)
 
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Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Are you saying the brand new starter is toast within 200 miles?:confused:
Actually it was a reman starter....(edited)
Looks like you got a triple score on this one.
  • You will get very good at replacing garbage re-mans if you keep using them.
  • You will end up replacing the flywheel ring gear that the re-man tore up.
  • BONUS POINT. You will get zero payment for any damage garbage parts do to your car.
Throwing garbage parts on your car almost always cost more in the long run..............

At least you still have the original starter.....................
 
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Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Those reman starters are hit and miss. I bought an autozone special and 30 days later they were replacing it for free. Idparts has brand new Bosch starters however you may want to sort this issue out before putting a brand new starter on it. Make sure they know there is a difference between the automatic starter and the manual transmission starter.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Location
New York
TDI
2003 VW ALH MK4 5 Speed
So basically you are saying that I should go with a bosh unit which meets OEM part number from a Napa or other stores?
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Is this helpful?
Not for you but it might help others. So many peoples are just so pleased that they saved some money but don't understand the consequences of sub standard parts.

Don't feel alone though. All of us have made the same or worse mistakes. My old ROCO automatic had starter issues and my local FLAPS just couldn't get me a starter that worked correctly.

One day it occurred to me that what imbecile of a manufacturer would put an auto in something as sorta sporty as a ROCO and I traded it in on my first Jetta and it did have a proper manual tranny in it.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Really good point. NEVER draw the tranny in place with the bolts. In fact if you use a tranny jack you can thread all of the bolts in by hand while keeping VG alignment. Unless you have several people to help, Armstrong-ing a tranny in place can cause issues.
 
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UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
did you get both transmission alignment dowel pins back in place ?
When I recently did the clutch in the wife's car I somehow managed to have one of the ears (go around the dowels) on the plate bend over. Had to pull the trans back out and bend that sucker back in shape. Felt lucky to have spotted it before I really started cranking on bolts.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
I used a strap off an engine support bar. I was able to verify that this is a good way to do it as I ended up having to pull the transmission a couple extra times :)D first time I forgot the stupid clutch fork!) and then another for that stupid plate ear bending. The strap was one of those clam-shell types, not a ratcheting type (which wouldn't provide enough travel). Had to get up on top of the engine to manipulate (pull and slacken, which took a bit of grunting), but I didn't exert any real energy underneath the car. I could spin the transmission in the strap to line things up (but when set from the start it tended to stay oriented just like I needed).
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Got ya. Still a much better method than the Armstrong method.

Something to think about the next time: https://www.harborfreight.com/autom.../450-lb-low-lift-transmission-jack-61232.html They work fantastic if you throw away the ratchet strap and have a helper steady the tranny from above. I got mine for $20 from a shop that didn't need it anymore.

Forgetting the fork is classic but far from the worst mistake you can make.

Someone posted that he was doing a Diesel Purge and he missed that you have to plumb the pump output back to the return or remove the fuel pump fuse. He figured that he must of pumped a gallon or 2 of fuel all over the inside of the engine compartment before he got the engine shut off.

He was most likely sitting in the car holding a fast idle and at some point noticed that an oily liquid was raining down on the windshield.:eek:
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Got ya. Still a much better method than the Armstrong method.

Something to think about the next time: https://www.harborfreight.com/autom.../450-lb-low-lift-transmission-jack-61232.html They work fantastic if you throw away the ratchet strap and have a helper steady the tranny from above. I got mine for $20 from a shop that didn't need it anymore.

Forgetting the fork is classic but far from the worst mistake you can make.

Someone posted that he was doing a Diesel Purge and he missed that you have to plumb the pump output back to the return or remove the fuel pump fuse. He figured that he must of pumped a gallon or 2 of fuel all over the inside of the engine compartment before he got the engine shut off.

He was most likely sitting in the car holding a fast idle and at some point noticed that an oily liquid was raining down on the windshield.:eek:
Well, I didn't forget the fuel return line but had it pop out of the can! Line was pointed down and in front so no visible evidence until the engine shut off from no fuel. Amazing how much fuel the IP circulates!:eek: Also got to find out what a PITA it is to prime the IP! I've run Diesel Purge many times and this was the first time that this had happened to me.

I'd read of folks finding that the transmission jack would get in the way. I know from having other stuff under cars how things can become obstructionist With the strap off the engine support bar (I've read of folks using some small chain come-a-longs, which would be a better idea than just a strap like I was using) I could set the transmission fully on the ground. No need to have the car WAY up in the air (for the extra clearance necessary for a transmission jack). Anyway, after working with someone else replacing a transmission (my car) I felt that doing it by myself and using the method I used worked a WHOLE lot better (and I was worried about doing only by myself). All said, however, I also had much of the suspension ripped out, which is likely the greatest help.
 

Brian O'Dell

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Location
Seattle
TDI
2005 GLS Wagon 5spd
My stock starter is making the ‘grinding’ or ‘whinning’ noises described by G4B in the initial post. I found a YouTube clip that matched the noise my starter makes occasionally after the engine starts. Wanted to post a link but the admin never answered my email asking if it was ok.

Anyway... my starter is making noise after the engine starts. It appears from the YouTube clip re-greasing the starter’s planetary gears should do the trick. So my questions are

1. I read the starter rebuild thread, any high temp grease will work on the starter gears? There’s no speciality grease that is recommended?

2. Some of you described clutch dust ast being the issue that may have caused G4B’s issue. In my mind the clutch dust got in the starter? I guess I’m not following how the clutch dust can get in the starter. Anyone want to break that down for me?

Cheers
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
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If you got grinding, your starter likely needs service. The clutch dust thing will make a sound like a duck just after starting.
 

illistninja

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
TDI
05 Jetta
Clutch dust gets in through vents and holds up the brushes, preventing proper contact. As for the grease, the solenoid isnt moving freely enough for the spring to pull it back when you disengage the starter, so the engine over revs the starter once it takes over and causes the noise you hear. A good cleaning may be a better idea then grease, but if you do have issues still then a small amount of moly based grease would do the trick.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
 
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