PD Base Dyno Data

Base line Dyno plot for review and comparison before I decide what else can be done and what makes a difference.

Seat Ibiza PD130 2003
119500 miles, engine standard, head never been removed standard PD130/150 injectors.
GTB2260VK Turbo on Cast and welded manifold (Nearly 40k miles old now)
Miltec Turbo back exhaust.
Forge Front Mount Intercooler.
EGR disabled (Since 60k miles)
SMF and uprated clutch.
Air Filter: UFI paper, new.
Tyres Hankook winter icept 205/50/16, relatively new, 28psi very cold.
Fuel:Regular Shell (Fuel saver), no additives.
Car well strapped down as ice was defrosting from the car and dropping water on the tyres and rollers causing traction issues.
Temp inside was about 4 degC
Dyno run in 4th gear.
Dyno run is slightly longer than a 4th gear run would be.(2 gears to go)

Note tune is designed for standard Dual mass flywheel and clutch which is why there is scope for improvement on torque between 2000 and 3000rpm. I am not planning to change the tune util I make a couple of other changes.
I took some VCDS logs during the dyno run and have amalgamated the data.

Here are the amalgamated results:

Note cam sync angle where torque dips! Cambelt is close to scheduled change, but tensioner is reasonably set.

Here is the Full Original Dyno plot from the MAHA Dyno:

Note VCDS rpm is reads less than Maha by 200 rpm at max speed.

Here is a video of one of the runs to see the smoke level:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnuvwxNq_kE
This was inside a closed building in which we did 4 runs, and as it was cold outside the doors were not opened and no-one felt the need to have them opened. Engine was loaded up from pretty much idle speed upwards.
No doubt there will be arguments about the 58hp losses. The facts are this was on a Maha Dyno which is twin roller, and was strapped down quite hard as there were traction issues. I can see from the logs the engine was idling on Dyno overrun and we can see from the video there was no brake trickery.
As a comparison for where those figures are I would estimate a vcds 1/4 mile would show a terminal speed of 94 ( A litle over 1250Kg plus deadweight driver)


I hope this info is of use to you all, and even more so if my next couple of mods work. Any questions just ask.
Merry Christmas to you all!

Great stuff, this car feels stock when cruising along and is an animal when giving it some!

This dyno shows exactly what a stock PD engine with only bolt on mods will produce. These GTB's really put hybrids to shame in terms of power delivery.

Can't wait to see how well it goes with the next stage of mods!

Since when is 225 crank hp 'putting to shame' ?!

And is a MAHA like a Dynojet or DynoDynamics?

Nice dyno nonetheless, but not ground breaking numbers there man.

My opinion is that no need to put 2260vk without bigger injectors, cam, head posting etc...
These 225hp@crank can be reached with smaller turbo, than torque peak will start from 2000rpm, not 3000rpm.

sid said:

My opinion is that no need to put 2260vk without bigger injectors, cam, head posting etc...
These 225hp@crank can be reached with smaller turbo, than torque peak will start from 2000rpm, not 3000rpm.

Click to expand...

Agreed but as the original Turbo was the KKK VNT15 I needed to upgrade to max out the standard injectors and chose the GTB2260VK instead of the hybrid and the price was pretty much the same. The Dyno plot shows how well the Turbo spools, there could have been much more torque between 2000 and 3000, but that was kept down to protect the Dual mass flywheel. I need to re-record a gear pull with EMP and connect up a EGT probe and gauge.

dieselpower04 said:

Since when is 225 crank hp 'putting to shame' ?!

And is a MAHA like a Dynojet or DynoDynamics?

Nice dyno nonetheless, but not ground breaking numbers there man.

Click to expand...

Please read my post again, the numbers are not ground breaking but the way the power is delivered and the amount of area under the curve, is something a hybrid cannot compete with. Don't get me wrong, hybrids have their place for ease of installation and up to a certain power level (around the same peak as the above) but not much more scope for improvement. This dyno is not the final results, he could has posted these results along with the next set of runs but has posted them now to show an unbiased 'base' figure without knowing the next results, it will all become clear in the next month or so!

I agree that fitting a gtb2260 might not be the best idea for a relitively stock setup, that's what the gtb17 and 2056's are for. If you are thinking of upgrading anything else in the future it makes sense to buy big or buy twice haha! Al has done 40k on this setup and is a picky guy so I doubt it would still be on there if it drove poorly.

Please compare boost/emp ratio with tis turbo and a 17/22

Most people will be suprised at their EMP figures!!!

ryanp said:

Most people will be suprised at their EMP figures!!!

Click to expand...

Or they just drive more and worry less. 50k miles on my overdriven hype-brid 17/22 I won't argue that the GTB isn't leaps and bounds better, just saying that ignorance is bliss sometimes.

Yes - Please measure EMP and IMP with the GTB2260VK from as low of an RPM as you can (1500 minimum if you will) all the way up to 5000 RPM.

I'd love to see how this turbo performs

Fix_Until_Broke said:

Yes - Please measure EMP and IMP with the GTB2260VK from as low of an RPM as you can (1500 minimum if you will) all the way up to 5000 RPM.

I'd love to see how this turbo performs

Click to expand...

GTB2260vk EMP: My tune is set for 32psi from 2500-4500+. Initial tip in, I see a maximum of 35-38 psi EMP for 0.5-2 seconds. After the initial spool the EMP's are 7 psi greater than boost, topping out around 35 psi EMP. At 3000 rpm EMP drops to 7 psi less than boost pressure up to around 4500 rpm.

<3000rpm=7psiEMP>boost ie. 20 psi boost has around 27 psi EMP
>3000rpm=7psiEMP<boost ie. 32 psi boost has around 25 psi EMP.

It would be nice to get some comparisons.

I will try to post up some gauge videos soon.

O.C.

O.C.TDI said:

GTB2260vk EMP: My tune is set for 32psi from 2500-4500+. Initial tip in, I see a maximum of 35-38 psi EMP for 0.5-2 seconds. After the initial spool the EMP's are 7 psi greater than boost, topping out around 35 psi EMP. At 3000 rpm EMP drops to 7 psi less than boost pressure up to around 4500 rpm.

<3000rpm=7psiEMP>boost ie. 20 psi boost has around 27 psi EMP
>3000rpm=7psiEMP<boost ie. 32 psi boost has around 25 psi EMP.

It would be nice to get some comparisons.

I will try to post up some gauge videos soon.

O.C.

Click to expand...

Interesting - That really has to open up and pull hard over 3000 RPM
and your dyno data at 2000 RPM is still higher than most at 100 HP

I assume that it's relatively linear?

2000 RPM EMP=IMP+7
3000 RPM EMP=IMP
4000 RPM EMP=IMP-7

Video's would be cool - If we were closer I'd offer to take data similar to what I've done with my 17/22

Alastair was talking of EMP"s around 1.4-1.5bar between 3500rpm and redline

With my GT2260V and the tune I have now, I never see over 1,9-2,0 bar EMP, not even when the turbo spools up. Boost is set at 2,0bar from ~3000rpm->
Everything depends on arm and stop screw settings, and tune ofcourse.

I will get an emp run video'd again and add the results to the graph, hopefully this time, without corrupting the memory card like during the dyno run. If I have enough time I will get the EGT sensor fitted and video'd.

Need also to disect a spare head

Here is the raw data for a third gear run using wideband sensor and external logging.

The tune has been modified slightly for 4 bar sensor, but still essentially for 2 bar boost and I think duration has been extended a liittle in the mid range. All else is more or less the same except an extra 20k miles from the dyno and some better balanced injectors.

Data logging system:
http://www.ecotrons.com/Accurate_Lambda_Meter.html
I will review once I have some more data.

This logging was done at 100ms intervals, option is for 20ms intervals. Wideband 02 ratio shown on left axis, rpm and voltage x1000 on the right axis. Ambient temp was approx 16 deg C, road had one small sharp undulation, but was overall sort of flat.

rpm= whiteish yellow
AFR= brown
Factory pressure sensor voltage = purple (Post intercooler)
Mcnally 75PSI sensor volatge = blue (Pre-intercooler

Without further ado:




Does anyone know of some descent software for graphing with multiple y axis, the software with the kit changes the axis dynamically one at a time depending on measurement highlighted.

I am surprised at the variation of the factory sensor voltage, is that normal turbulance? The pressure sensor is 4 bar 0281 006 060. I believe the factors are 0.401V=500mB and 4.506V = 4000mB.

The McNally voltage has been damped as i have used a water injection nozzle fitting to supply the pressure tapping and the small nozzle damps teh pressure osscillations. (In the raw data it lags the factory sensor by a second when the boost is removed quickly.)

Anyone have any calibration data for the Mcnllay boost sensor voltages?
I have posted a request to Dave @ McNaly.

Anyone any better idea of software to display multiple y axis?
I just merged one picture with another for this one.

Anyone any good ideas for splicing this data with VCDS log done at the same time?
failing all else I will write a little distributable runtime access database that can import both sets of data, convert voltages to meaningful values, splice the data using time by offsetting one with another and either graph or output resulst ready to graph in another application, but it would take a while.

Any requests for logs:

Plans are:
Hook up McNally sensor to EMP tapping and log, and alos log VCDS for pressure, injected qty, duration, soi.

Log gentle acceleration as above to 4700rpm so that the factory air flow monitor is not maxed out and we can corroborate airflow, fuel flow, and AFR.

Run a 4700rpm to idle without power to try and graph relative volumetric efficiency and see how that compares with the dip in AFR seen at approximately 3400rpm

I use Microsoft Excel for all this kind of thing. It's good for keeping the raw data and then applying a scaling factor to the voltages, merging data with different time steps to synchronize everything, etc.

It's a bit manual, but for the variety of data and the relative frequency of doing this kind of work, it works well for me.

You probably want to open up the nozzle damping the signal on your McNally gauge or significantly reduce the length of tubing between the nozzle and the sensor.

The pressure pulses in the intake and exhaust manifolds are "significant" and normal.

VCDS data is painfully slow so the higher gear that you can do the runs (longer time) the better.

I'm not sure how the VE calculations will work at zero throttle - most tunes hold the VNT vanes closed in overrun which drives boost and EMP's up artifically and may mess up your calculations

I like the idea of part throttle accelerations to determine VE - not sure how useful it will be at part throttle, but it should be interesting to see.

Here is some data from a 3rd gear to full rpm followed by a 4th gear run.

Using 0 to 5 scale on the left
RPM in yellow/White
EMP in Brown - Voltage converted to absolute pressure in bar
Boost pale blue - Voltage converted to absolute boost in bar.

Using AFR scale on the right from 10 to 30
AFR pale purple

Sample at 20ms intervals



Matching VCDS log for boost channel 11:



Seat Ibiza as per my signature.