What is VW's position on "biodiesel"? ...more

What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Well, I called my dealer, in case I ever see Biodiesel for sale, and the service rep said don't use it and it isn't recommended -- so why is Biodiesel a TDI discussion issue?

Thanks, Z

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Call back the nitwit at Chapman and ask him why VW uses B100 biodiesel in their TDI race vehicle?
FYI there are 2 sources for bio in Phoenix, the only place in the USA so blessed.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Also ask him why VWAG's own Environmental Report 1999/2000 says you can use biodiesel at pages 33 and 53.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Thanks for the information. I intend on taking it up with Chapman on Tuesday. Where are the two stations in Phoenix located?

Z

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

I`ve yet to find a VW dealer that has even heard about biodiesel. Every one I`ve ever confronted with this ? has said "No, it is not approved." Their total lack of knowledge and interest on this and other subjects is disappointing at best. I`m glad our two B4s are out of warranty therefore we don`t have to deal with them.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Go to www.vw.com. Select "VW Global" from the "About Us" list. Select the Volkswagen AG, Germany link. Select English (british flag) then "Sitemap." Finally, select "Environment" from the "Company" list. That should take you here http://www.volkswagen-umwelt.de/index_e.htm if the link does not work.

You can type "biodiesel" in the search window on the right side of the screen to find all the references to that topic.

To be fair, most of the VW literature refers to RME Rapeseed Methyl Esther biodiesel. Most biodiesel in the US is from Soy or other seed oil crops. As a result, VWOA has an out.

[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: Dante Driver ]</p>

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

The tankful of 100% soydiesel that I got from RC a few weeks ago was the best tank of fuel I've had in my car in 20k miles. Engine ran quietly and no smoke.

-Mel

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

I have run B100 as a blend (whatever dino was in tank got mixed!)

HOT FUEL- car loves it runs quieter- expensive and kind of a special trip to get it!

Solar Market in Kennebunk,ME!

Dealer will VOID your warranty for looking at your car CROSSEYED or speaking unkindly to it or thinking impure thoughts while driving.

[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: banzai ]</p>

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

What warranty?

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Dante, Thanks for the link to VW's site. However, in the list it provides of those vehicles that may use BioDiesel, the Beetle is not included. I'm having second thought to giving my 2000 mile Beetle a swig of BioDiesel. Any ideas?

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Oops!! I guess I found it, page 34, just like you pointed out in the Enviromental Report. Thanks. I'll print it out for my wife to read, she needs convincing too.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

There is nothing wrong with biodiesel. However, VW will use it as an excuse to void your warranty if something goes wrong...even if the failure has nothing remotely to do with fuel. "Tamper" with your car at your own risk!

I've used B100. The car ran smoothly, and smoke was eliminated.

-mickey

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Looked over the VW site about bio-fuel at http://www.volkswagen-umwelt.de/index_e.htm and was at first happy then not so sure about their stand on bio-fuel. If you have to replace fuel lines to be able to run bio-fuel it voids your warranty or so the artical says.

I may be wrong, but the only thing I can think of in bio-fuel to cause need to replace fuel lines or rubber seals is alcohol. Do the Germans not use alcohol in manfacture of their bio-fuel? Did we get different fuel handeling matererials put in our US cars? It sounds almost like we can't use US bio-fuel in new VW's.

I guess we/someone needs to find out for sure before using bio-fuel. Who knows dino-fuel manfactures may have paid some big bribes to VW for not oking bio-fuel use. Sometimes I have to stop and remember what $$$$ can buy if you have enough to spend.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

The Germans prefer a special kind of "Synthetic Diesel" that is manufactured using the Trops Fisch (sp?) process. This converts natural gas, naptha and a coupld other ingredients into a very high cetane 0% sulfur fuel. The Lupo TDI used this fuel when setting it's around the world record.

I strongly suggest not asking a dealer about the injection system and DO strongly suggest contacting Bosch directly. VW buys the pumps and injection systems they don't build them. VW especially the dealer network here in the US is not exactly the best source of cutting edge information on these cars since their primary function and purpose is cut and dry warranty work paid for by VW.

When you start going outside the scope of "normal" day to day operations you MUST not look to the VW dealers for guidance because they do not have the knowlege base to offer you any assistance except to say when puzzled "it will void your warranty" that usually covers 99% of the things your average grease monkey will never understand.

The real Techs that are out there if you can find one should be able to point you in the right direction on how to make Biodiesel work or if it can work at all.

The bottom line is ALL VW's are set up since the early 90's to run biodiesel. The reason is they all use the type of rubber that is resistant to degredation from alcohol. The only issues with first using Biodiesel is to be ready to change a couple of fule fitlers due to clogging.

Biodiesel will kill the bacteria that normally grow in diesel fuel. Once killed off by the Methanol frequently found in the Biodiesel the dead bacteria work there way to the fuel filter and get filtered out. IF you have enough growth in your tank it can plug up the filter and stop the motor dead in its tracks.

I suggest running a few cycles of "Biocide" in your tank before making the switch. I have some on hand that is made by Power Service. Expect to have to change at least one fuel filter in the process. If you begin to see large quantities of air bubbles in the fuel line too the pump this is an indication that the fuel filter is plugging and air is being drawn by the suction in the pump.

Other than that you cannot find a better fuel in North America in regards to Cetane, Sulphur, Lubricity as well as renewability!

DB

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Page 33 of my Environmental Report 1999/2000 IS the page for the New Beetle. It says: "This version [the New Beetle TDI] can also run on RME fuel (bio-diesel) to E DIN 51606, something that applies not just to the New Beetle TDI, but to all diesel-engined Volkswagen models."

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Drivbiwire:

The real Techs that are out there if you can find one should be able to point you in the right direction on how to make Biodiesel work or if it can work at all.

DB<hr></blockquote>


I drove by the place(chaplins) i go to for service to ask the techs what their thoughts were on the matter. they mentioned that they were looking into making it themselves... whether or not that comes about is a nice idea, but they were at least aware of it's existance.

oh, i should probably mention that they did not say to use it, or not to use it.

[ October 29, 2001: Message edited by: godlike242 ]</p>

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

No turning back now. I filled up with my first B20 fuel this afternoon. The station is Supreme Oil Co. in 2110 Grand Ave. Pheonix, AZ. $1.61/gal for BioDiesel before tax and $1.005 for #2 before tax. The BioDiesel is rated NA1993, P.G.III. What does that mean?

I had to drive over 20 miles there and back. Does anyone know of a BioDiesel Station in NW Phoenix?

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

You should count yourself lucky it was only a 20 mile drive... Mine was almost 200 miles roundtrip...

Get yourself some cheap fuel containers if the distance is bumming you out.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

MITBeta, Did you try Worldenergy? Their website says they're in Chelsea, MA. and sell 5 gal pails or 55gal drums. No prices listed and I don't know if they have pumps but it's a lot closer than 100 miles.
mary
00NBtdi

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Drivebywire states((("it will void your warranty" that usually covers 99% of the things your average grease monkey will never understand.

The real Techs that are out there if you can find one should be able to point you in the right direction on how to make Biodiesel work or if it can work at all.))

I specialize in VW and work for a VW dealership. I resent you comments. At my dealership we have no greasmonkeys, we are proffessionals and take our careers seriously. We take pride in what we do. The incredible amount of knowledge required to fix a VW nowadays is be beyond our customers expectaions. We maintain a professional appearance also, not your greese-monkey bull**** stereotype comment. Our techs wear black pleeted pants with WHITE button shirts.

Techs out there won't know anything about biodiesel unless VW talks about it in training or sends us reading materials.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Banzai:

I have been looking EVERYWHERE for biodiesel in my area (New Hampshire)!!! Can you give me directions to the Solar Market in Kennebunk Me.???

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

I contacted World Energy... they do not have a retail outlet in the Boston area... Apparently if you purchase fuel from them it gets shipped from Illinois or something...

Solarmarket is right off Rt 1 in Kennebunk, here are the directions:

Solar Market Directions

By the way, if you prepay for 50 gallons or more there, the price is about $2.20. If you buy 500 or more you can get if for less than $2.00.

[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: MITBeta ]</p>

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Michael,
Welcome to the forum! If you do indeed work for a local (Seattle) VW dealership that is great. Send your techs to Fred's to learn about TDIs. There are people here that know more about them than anyone else in North America.

That said, let's face the fact that most dealerships around the country don't have anyone on staff that knows diddly about TDIs. You said yourself that they don't get training from VW so they don't have the knowledge. Assuming for the moment that they do understand cars and engines they should at least be able to quickly pick up enough information to actually troubleshoot problems when they show up at the shop.

Cars are more complex than ever and like anything that is complex you must continually learn to deal with new problems. Relying on "old" knowledge won't get you very far. Start reading, learn about the TDIs and help VW salvage what is left of their reputation!

Oh, and about the dress code. I will take an old oil soaked diesel jockey who knows about Diesel's engine before I would take my TDI to a well tailored tech who knows nothing about diesels.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Michael welcome! I echo Jorpets sentiments.

I don't know where you work (obviously) but I have had my car serviced at Carter's and University VW. Carters couldn't do the first oil change right. University did a good job (I talked to the tech in the bay as I watched him service my car) and I have said so in other threads here.

There are lots of members who have had dealers use non-synthetic oil and/or oil of the wrong weight in their TDIs. More than one member has had his car "topped up" with gasoline while in dealer service, and way too many of us have talked with techs who clearly know less about TDIs than we have learned here. Nothing personal, but the impression I get is that VW service--particularly with respect to the TDI is pretty bad.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Jorpet and Dante.
I just wanted to say I agree to your reply. Here is some inside info on dealerships. Concerning the comment about the wrong oil being used, I, myself, am the top payed master VW tech, and am payed toooo much to change oil. I can see where the screw-ups are being made. The oil changes are going to the new-hires. I'm constantly applying myself to the hard-core diagnostics. I get the crap that noone else can fix.
Now on the wrong fuel being added in TDI's, our lot attendents have made the same mistake. Those darn TDI's are just too quiet nowadays and I can see why such a mistake can be made by an inexperienced lot attend.
Unless the VW techs are your salesman, service reps, and lot attendents, your expectations for perfect service may be irrational. I opologize on behalf of our dealership and others for these mistakes. However, it is not your key technician who should be held accountable for the mistakes of others.
Today, I held a meeting with the sales department to educate them on the very same topics that are being disscused here in TDI.COM, most importantly about biodiesel. I believe that this is a great tool to educate our VW dealerships on TDI issues. Give it a few years and all of this will be old news.
TDI's rule; the best product VW has ever made. See ya, Michael.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

From the World Energy web site:

"Biodiesel is registered with the Environmental Protection Agency as a fuel and fuel additive and meets clean diesel standards established by the California Air Resources Board. B100 is a recognized alternative fuel by the Department of Energy and the United States Department of Transportation."

Yes, these are the guys selling it but almost any government site says the same thing. It's a legal fuel that's taxed by the Feds and whatever state you are in so it makes it a legal fuel to use in your vehicle.

If VWoA wants to provide free fuel to use for the life of the warrenty, then they could probably tell us what to use. Until then, soy beans are in my tank!

2000 Golf GLS TDi Automatic
K&N panel, .184 injectors, Tuning Box
Currently at B90 and running smooth!!

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Thanks Michael! I think VWOA and VW dealers could make a real PR coup by playing up the TDI and an environmentally friendly car as well as an economical one. Getting behine ASTM standard biodiesel and giving consistent responses to biodiesel inquiries would certainly be a step in the right direction.

As to the other issues, IMO VW should not sell the TDI in the US unless they can support it correctly. I have read that is one of the reasons Mercedes pulled their diesels out of the US market (besides crappy fuel)--they just didn't sell enough diesels to justify the cost of training their sales and service personnel to support diesels. My motivation in shedding light on service shortcomings experienced by members is to help VW improve. I don't just own a VW--I own VW stock, too As an owner and shareholder, I applaud your efforts to make a positive change within your sphere of influence. Thanks!

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Dante.
Mercedes didn't pull their diesels. You can still buy a new one, only available in the 300E models.
They a very nice. Very quiet too.
See ya, Michael.

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

Hmmm... There's no diesel listed on the E-Class Overview on the Mercedes Benz US website and the enthusiasts over at the Mercedes-Benz Diesel Forums say the last one available in the US was the 1999 E300. I also searched www.autotrader.com. You will find nothing newer than 1999, and I am told 1999 E300s now sell used for more than they cost new.

[ November 07, 2001: Message edited by: Dante Driver ]</p>

Re: What is VW\'s position on "biodiesel"? ...more

To be completely fair, Mike, Mercedes does sell their Sprinter cargo vans in the US (under the Freightliner brand, I believe). That cuts against those that suggest fuel quality is behind Mercedes' pull-out from the passenger diesel market--the Sprinter has an advanced common-rail engine. It also suggests that service concerns (which would be less acute with owner-maintained fleet vehicles) may indeed be behind the pull-out.