Deleting Emissions System?

physicshogon

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Location
Virginia
TDI
2012 Passat
I'm not 100% sure how to "search" the forum for a similar topic, but does anyone here have any experience with deleting their 2.0l TDI Passat?

I'm imagining it's as simple as a few blocker plates here and there then some tuning to the ECM. Am I incorrect?

When it comes to the tuning portion, what tuner(s) would anyone here recommend?

When it comes to actual fuel economy AFTER a delete, what're the numbers you guys are getting pre vs post?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
To be clear, it is illegal. Even if it is not "tested" in your area, it is still illegal.

You can change software, while leaving all the hardware of the components intact, and to some degree functioning, which is generally a better overall situation. However, I understand the obscene costs and fragile nature of some bits as related to emission controls (which as we've found out are a sham anyway) can be cause for alarm, and thus the knee jerk reaction to defeat them.

Lots of people have done it, but I would qualify your question with some context as to give a better answer.
 

physicshogon

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Location
Virginia
TDI
2012 Passat
To be clear, it is illegal. Even if it is not "tested" in your area, it is still illegal.
You can change software, while leaving all the hardware of the components intact, and to some degree functioning, which is generally a better overall situation. However, I understand the obscene costs and fragile nature of some bits as related to emission controls (which as we've found out are a sham anyway) can be cause for alarm, and thus the knee jerk reaction to defeat them.
Lots of people have done it, but I would qualify your question with some context as to give a better answer.
Can the software changes be done with a tool as simple as a Vag-Com cable?

P.S. Of course, this is for “off road use” ONLY.
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
Throwing all legal and ethical issues aside, google Rawtek or Buzzken for hardware and Malone or Kerma for software. I think that’s what you’re after.

I’m not deleted. I achieve my numbers by driving economically. Even so, I believe deletes net another 5+ mpg for people, as the DPF by design is quite restrictive. That is all anecdotal. Perhaps someone can pipe in with actual data.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The DPF is not "restrictive", unless it is plugged/full. And if that were the case, you'd know, as the ECU monitors that, and would inform you via a warning light.

What the DPF DOES require is regeneration, to clean it out, and THAT uses fuel. That is really the only thing that would make a difference in fuel economy. Given the fact that the CKRA is using SCR in conjunction with its dual EGR, its fuel use is already less than those without SCR. I would say under most driving conditions, fuel economy gains on the CKRA are not going to be huge by defeating these devices. The real "savings" would be to avoid the potential wallet flushing repair costs associated with keeping the systems working. However, given the current state of affairs, some of that *may* be mitigated by the "fix", unless you have had a bad experience afterwards which some have.

Context as to what the OP is really after would be helpful. If your car is currently in good working order, I'd leave it be.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Also, if the original poster has done VW's "fix", then leaving it alone maintains the extended warranty that has been provided. I strongly urge leaving it alone until that extended warranty is somewhere near through.
 

physicshogon

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Location
Virginia
TDI
2012 Passat
I started the process for the buyback/fix about a year ago and never went through completeion. But...is it too late? If not, what’s the website again where I can get things started?
 

jerrymander

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Location
ur mum
TDI
f
Even so, I believe deletes net another 5+ mpg for people, as the DPF by design is quite restrictive. That is all anecdotal. Perhaps someone can pipe in with actual data.
Deletes do not end up giving anyone better mileage, because it also makes you drive like an *******. This is anecdotal too.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I started the process for the buyback/fix about a year ago and never went through completeion. But...is it too late? If not, what’s the website again where I can get things started?
https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/

You have until September to get the paperwork all squared away and you have until December to have the buyback appointment, but at this point I would strongly urge anyone still on the fence to do it NOW if not yesterday.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
To forestall another question, it appears that the original poster has a 2012 Passat, unknown transmission. If it is an automatic, you can select either fix or buyback. If it is manual, buyback is the only choice.
 

physicshogon

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Location
Virginia
TDI
2012 Passat
Auto transmission. What exactly is the “fix”—just a software update to use more DEF? What’s fuel economy like AFTER the “fix”?
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
All post-fix differences in the way the car drives are minor, and you'll get a cash payment to compensate for your troubles and a good long warranty. Most people who complain about the fix have something else wrong with the car, or they are hypersensitive.
 

251

TDI Owner/Operator
Joined
May 11, 2002
Location
NW IN
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL
Auto transmission. What exactly is the “fix”—just a software update to use more DEF? What’s fuel economy like AFTER the “fix”?
My understanding is that there are two phases to the fix - phase 1 is software only then phase 2 at a later date involves hardware.

People who have done the fix (phase 1 only I believe at this point) report the mpg's are same, slightly better or have gotten worse - there is no clear consensus on this from what I've read. Makes deciding what to do that much harder. I'd say in general fuel economy will be about the same or take a small dive post fix.

Experiences of those who have done the fix can be found on this site. If you really want to know about same I suggest you start searching yourself so you can maximize your use of this site.

I'd also like to point out the third option which most don't talk about - do nothing instead of opting for the fix or buyback. Of course doing nothing means you get no money from VW, car will run/drive like it does now but all possible repairs down the road are on your dime. You need to decide what option you are most comfortable with. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
The two-phase installation applies only to 2015 models ... not to the one that the original poster owns (which is referred to as a "2.0 litre generation 2" in all of the legal agreements). The fix for the original poster's "gen 2" is a one-and-done software update, with no hardware changes.
 

Terrific-In-Tahoma

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Location
East-of-Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TDI
'01 ALH Jetta M5 / 05 BEW Jetta Wagon A4
Buyback Option and Income Taxes (USA - Canada)

For those of you who actually did the buyback option, did you have to pay income taxes on the money?
I have not done the buyback option, based on my model year ('01-ALH), however, to put income taxes into perspective.

The 'buyback option' is not an income. It is a rebate on a defective product.

You already paid 'income taxes' on the money that was used to buy the car.

You paid income taxes, when you paid your lease payment.

You paid income taxes, when you paid your monthly payment to whatever finance company, if it was financed other than through your work.

Where it gets a bit sticky, is if your work paid for the vehicle, and it was not previously included in 'taxable benefits' for Canadains. For US taxpyers, you need to check with the IRS.

But essentially, you are only getting back what you paid to VW, to deliver a vehicle that was 'certifiable for use in Canada or the USA', and with the emissions revelation, you were not delivered that vehicle.

No income tax repercussions.

And don't ask the IRS either, since they have a chance to get the answer wrong 10% of the time.
 

physicshogon

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Location
Virginia
TDI
2012 Passat
I have not done the buyback option, based on my model year ('01-ALH), however, to put income taxes into perspective.

The 'buyback option' is not an income. It is a rebate on a defective product.

You already paid 'income taxes' on the money that was used to buy the car.

You paid income taxes, when you paid your lease payment.

You paid income taxes, when you paid your monthly payment to whatever finance company, if it was financed other than through your work.

Where it gets a bit sticky, is if your work paid for the vehicle, and it was not previously included in 'taxable benefits' for Canadains. For US taxpyers, you need to check with the IRS.

But essentially, you are only getting back what you paid to VW, to deliver a vehicle that was 'certifiable for use in Canada or the USA', and with the emissions revelation, you were not delivered that vehicle.

No income tax repercussions.

And don't ask the IRS either, since they have a chance to get the answer wrong 10% of the time.
That was my train of thought, except taking a $10k check to the bank requires them to report it to the IRS—which is where it gets a bit sticky to me. I guess we’ll figure out the proper documentation come tax time next year.

Right now I’m waiting on the documents to be approved by VW, but for you all, once you completed everything online, how long did it take to get your buyback checks?
 

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
That was my train of thought, except taking a $10k check to the bank requires them to report it to the IRS—which is where it gets a bit sticky to me. I guess we’ll figure out the proper documentation come tax time next year.
Right now I’m waiting on the documents to be approved by VW, but for you all, once you completed everything online, how long did it take to get your buyback checks?
It’s kind of cool (and I mean this sincerely) to find folks like OP blissfully unaware of their buyback so far into the process. The rest of us have been consumed by it.

When you get your buyback check you’ll have a grand chance to double down by getting one of the inexpensive fixed 2015’s that are flooding the market, Mr. Van Winkle ;)
 

physicshogon

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Location
Virginia
TDI
2012 Passat
It’s kind of cool (and I mean this sincerely) to find folks like OP blissfully unaware of their buyback so far into the process. The rest of us have been consumed by it.
When you get your buyback check you’ll have a grand chance to double down by getting one of the inexpensive fixed 2015’s that are flooding the market, Mr. Van Winkle ;)
That was, by far, the dumbest response I’ve seen here on TdiClub.com. Unlike you, some of us have lives away from our computers and cars so we don’t spend all day and night trolling forums. But, I’m glad this is a way for you to tamale yourself feel important.
 

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
That was, by far, the dumbest response I’ve seen here on TdiClub.com. Unlike you, some of us have lives away from our computers and cars so we don’t spend all day and night trolling forums. But, I’m glad this is a way for you to tamale yourself feel important.


It was a joke, and a self effacing one at that. But, go ahead, take offense, dude. I’m out too.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Wow, so sensitive. Based upon his level of knowledge, I think a buyback is the best route for the op.
 
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