2006 tdi no power black smoke under 2000 rpm

volks_r_us

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Location
Montreal Canada
TDI
2000 Golf TDI
I have the Exact same problem as skinny19
I am leaning toward to a turbo problem. These BRM's are really picky engine, and will cause more and more problems as they get older. Imagine was you could get into if you buy one of these at the auction without being able to test drive it or open the valve cover gasket
I have not yet try this tie wrap turbo fix but will soon
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=309554&highlight=volks_r_us
 

ronjon

Active member
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Location
Hamilton
TDI
2006 Jetta
These symptoms seem to be fairly common on the BRM engine.

1. One potential issue is a bad position indicator on the turbo as Harv said. You can check for this by watching Engine Measuring Block 43 field 2 as you cycle the turbo with a vacuum pump. You could also log this as you ran down the road, if you wanted, checking for issues. There is no source that I am aware of for these positioners except off of ruined turbos. If the posioner fails completely you should get a code.

2. Another issue posted by jsrmonster is that quite a few of these turbos are set up with too much vane travel. At 100% demand the exhaust gasses are set up to miss the vanes, rather than impact at the most efficient angle. Adjusting the vane stop set screw on your turbo can fix this. Shorten the turbo vane lever travel a bit at a time. Keep track of the amount you shorten it. You may need to do an actuator setup after this.

3. And another issue can be due to the agressive EGR system operation on these cars.
Unplug the EGR and the ASV (both) and go for a test drive. If many or most of the symptoms disappear then you may be onto something.

4. And still another issue can be plugged catalytic converters, causing too much back pressure. Note that if this is the case it can really impact #3 above.

5. And on a BRM I would always inspect the cam for severely worn lobes.

skinny, I see that your car has had a lot of these areas looked at already. For your car I would try 1, 2, and 3. I would also inspect the cam again.
I have the same issues with no power below 2,000 RPM. The car wouldn't accelerate past 2KM/H unless I reved it to 3,000 RPM with the brake pedal engaged and then dropping into D.

The first time it happened was a few weeks ago when the temperature outside was -27C so I thought it was related to the cold and it went away after a day when the temp warmed up to -20C. The problem came back 3 days ago when the temp was 3C. I want to try to remove the EGR but can't find pictures or instructions. Can someone please help out?

I've parked the car since the problem came back a few days ago, I don't want to cause any more issues with the way its running.
 

rkrueger

Active member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
I followed this thread and was stuck just like you guys.....tried new egr valve, nope, tried adjusting everything possible in vag com, nope.....replaced turbo....2 weeks later still running like a champ....full power, no pinging, no smoke and no more hassle. Never had a check engine light the whole time either.....hope this helps...oh yeah tried maf too...nope
 

ronjon

Active member
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Location
Hamilton
TDI
2006 Jetta
I followed this thread and was stuck just like you guys.....tried new egr valve, nope, tried adjusting everything possible in vag com, nope.....replaced turbo....2 weeks later still running like a champ....full power, no pinging, no smoke and no more hassle. Never had a check engine light the whole time either.....hope this helps...oh yeah tried maf too...nope
So it was your turbo? I took my car to the local guru to see what he makes of it...
 

ronjon

Active member
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Location
Hamilton
TDI
2006 Jetta
I spoke with the shop thats fixing my car and it seems like its a EGR issue. The part alone is $350.
 

jdhunt0

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Location
KY
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
I am having similar issues, but without the shuddering and smoke. I have removed the EGR and the problem still persists, although to a much lesser degree than it seems many of you. I will try unplugging the EGR and ASV today along with purchasing a vacuum pump to do the other tests.

Also, my cam checked is showing signs of wear and scheduled to be replaced in about a month. But I assume this is unrelated to the turbo lag.
 

stra0529

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Location
North Branch, MN
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI DSG
black smoke, low power

back again, fuel filter worked for a bit but now its getting pretty rough.

I ran for a while with the EGR disconnected and ran 95% better but fuel economy went down (~37mpg). Since then, cleaned the intake manifold, EGR, ASV free of carbon and now everything is connected. Ran what appeared to be better but now its smoking more then it had before, big bursts of black smoke when accelerating past 1800-2200rpm and fuel economy now even lower (~35mpg). Check engine light came on recently without any connector change and decided to get it checked (still dont have a vagcom). The codes presented were P0101 (MAF), P0122 (throttle pos sensor), P2413 (EGR system), P2425 (EGR cooling valve), and P2564 (turbo).

Im leaning towards either bad turbo, stuck EGR or bad ASV. With little to no money its hard to just stick in cash and hope.

I was going to stick in the EGR block plate and see how that works but would like to fix the smoke issue and have the car running smooth with power again.

any help is appreciated greatly, thanks all!
 

sixamskier

Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Location
Blackfoot, Idaho
TDI
2006 Jetta
Same Problem Here

Hello all,
I am new to the forums, but have been searching them for a few weeks now. I am having the same exact issue with the surge and shudder. My car idles fine always, but if I rev it up to about 2300 RPMs it begins surging +/- 500 RPM's. It sounds like a valve is opening and closing, and could possibly be the ASV valve closing. It sounds like the engine is Swooshing every time the RPMS drop. I have VCDS and the readings are all over the place. The MAF will go from 550 or so all the way to 0 once in a while and usually after one of the bigger RPM drops. Boost is usually a couple hundred off what is specified. Whats wierd is that if I unplug any sensor, EGR, MAF, N75, the RPM fluctuations stop. Could the MAF be causing this. I have watched the VNT turbo rod move just after the car is started and I've watched as the RPM's are fluctuating and the Turbo valve stays steady. I am new to VCDS so I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for other than looking at Spec verses actual. Also my ASV gears were stripped, and unplugged when I purchased the car. I fixed the gears and plugged it back in with no notable fix. I cleared the codes with VCDS, but haven't done any adaptations or anything. Overall, I'm completely stumped. By the way, new fuel, oil, air filter, DSG filter and fluid. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. If I can figure out how to post an image, I have VC-scope of the EGR spec verses actual and Boost pressure spec vs. actual.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I would check out the EGR, first thing. It can cause this type of issue, and can cause excessive hunting. When you unplug any of the sensors the EGR quits changing positions.
 

sixamskier

Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Location
Blackfoot, Idaho
TDI
2006 Jetta
I can see the EGR fluctuating on VCDS, and it does seem to be somewhat related, but other times the EGR valve will show that it is cycling and the engine doesn't change at all. Is there a way to check the egr system. I pulled the valve and cleaned it, but it really was not too dirty to begin with. There was some sludgy carbon deposits about 1 inch wide and 1/2 inch thick that was just inside the throttle body by the exit of the EGR valve. Is there a possibility that it is plugged or something. I have noticed that my air filter, allthough it is brand new is already getting black soot deposits on the EGR side of the airbox.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
The EGR control linkage sometimes can get slopply, bent and loose. This can make the EGR erratic. Since you fixed your ASV, you may want to take a look at the EGR.
 

sixamskier

Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Location
Blackfoot, Idaho
TDI
2006 Jetta
Thanks, I'll try that tomorrow morning. Is the EGR link under the black plastic EGR valve cover. I'll see if I can find instructions about how to repair it and what I'm looking for.
 

sixamskier

Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Location
Blackfoot, Idaho
TDI
2006 Jetta
Here is a picture of the VC-Scope while the car is surging. Near the middle is the worst where it is going up and down and the MAF or EGR values are fluctuating up and down. The green is spec boost and the yellow is actual. The orange color is the MAF I believe and I'm not sure what the grey is, but I think it might be EGR cycle. I'll see if I can get a video as well.

 
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sixamskier

Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Location
Blackfoot, Idaho
TDI
2006 Jetta
I think I have found the problem!

I think I have finally found the problem. The above VC scope shows the problem and when the engine is blowing black smoke and surging, it is directly related to the turbo vein position being at 100%, not moving whatsoever. I am not sure what controls the actuator rod, but mine loads up completely (black smoke like crazy and pinging) and then all of the sudden takes off. I have checked everything else and have confirmed that it is directly related to the turbo vein position. On VCDS it shows the turbo veines fully closed or open (the actuator rod is fully down), and as soon as the veines change the car takes off and the black smoke stops. What's funny is that for some reason VCDS shows the turbo veines are either all or nothing it seems. It shows the turbo vein position at 100% and then it will drop to like 25% when the car takes off, as soon as I let off the acc. pedal it goes right back to 100%. The turbo spools up even at idle and I believe that whatever controls the turbo is at fault. I can move the veines easily with vacuum, so I think the actuator is fiine, and the sensor on top of the actuator is showing proper position based on wether the actuator valve is fully down or up (as verified by VCDS). I am thinking that maybe the N75 is at fault. Does anyone know what controls vacuum to the actuator valve. Does the N75 valve regulate vacuum pressure, or is it an on/off vacuum sorce, or does something else control vacuum psi. I'd like to find out for sure before I put an 80 dollar n75 valve on the car for no reason.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
The n75 controls vacuum by porting air in or not.
I think you are seeing a result, not the source, of the problem.

You can easily check to see if your N75 is working - and it sounds as if it is.

What does the duty cycle show when the turbo vane position sensor is moving? Do they track?
 

sixamskier

Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Location
Blackfoot, Idaho
TDI
2006 Jetta
I am curious about the split in the cooler hose. Where did you find the split and are there any common locations to look for. It seems to be pressurizing because the hoses become bloated while the car is surging. I believe the N75 works because if I run the tests in vcds the engine sounds different when the n75 kicks offline. My main question is what controls the vacuum pressure to the turbo if the N75 is just an on/off cycle. The duty cycle for the N75 valve stays pretty consistent at about 90% I believe. I have been away from home for a few days and can't quite remember what the exact numbers are. I'll check them tonight when I get back. Thanks for the suggestions. I also checked the EGR as suggested earlier and it seems like the linkage is OK, I don't see any bends or problems and the valve moves fine without much EGR carbon buildup. If I run the output tests on VCDS the EGR test will usually kill the engine, sometimes it doesn't though.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
The EGR test should never kill the engine. You should be seeing about 450 mg/stroke of air at idle or 1400 rpm with the EGR closed, and about 225 mg/stroke when the EGR is opened for the test.

The N75 very quickly ports air and vacuum, mixing them to reach the desired boost condition. It is only on/off but moves off and on so rapidly that a target vacuum is reached in the turbo operator. The duty cycle sets the percentage of air and the percentage of vacuum that is mixed.

My color vision is poor. I cannot make heads or tales of that image. Can you send me a log (.csv file) of your car's EGR basic settings test (003) and turbo controls basic settings test (011)?

I would also like to see a log (.csv file) of the car while surging.

I would block off the EGR and see what impact that has on your issue.
 

sixamskier

Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Location
Blackfoot, Idaho
TDI
2006 Jetta
The EGR test should never kill the engine. You should be seeing about 450 mg/stroke of air at idle or 1400 rpm with the EGR closed, and about 225 mg/stroke when the EGR is opened for the test.
I went ahead and tried the test again and it keeps killing the engine. I took the car for a drive and when I brought it back, the test would pass fine and the car wouldn't die. I don't know what's going on.


The N75 very quickly ports air and vacuum, mixing them to reach the desired boost condition. It is only on/off but moves off and on so rapidly that a target vacuum is reached in the turbo operator. The duty cycle sets the percentage of air and the percentage of vacuum that is mixed.
I confirmed this to be the case. I put some pb blaster lubricant into the N75 valve and also into the turbo vein actuator and it seemed to free up something because the turbo boost was following the spec. much closer than previously. It does have its deviations once in a while though.

DanG, I sent you an email with the .csv files. Sorry I don't know excel at all, or I would paste a picture here so everyone could see.

Let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Wade
 

sixamskier

Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Location
Blackfoot, Idaho
TDI
2006 Jetta
Sorry, heres the logs

I cannot find an email.

Dan
Hi Dan,
I'm not sure why you didn't receive it. I sent it to your email posted on TDI club. I figured out how to post it here from my dropbox account. Here's the links. There are two. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25793264/LOG-01-003-xxx-011.CSV, and http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25793264/LOG-01-03E-105-112.CSV. The first one is the longer one and shows the problem more clearly. The car was actually working quite well as I was doing the tests. I was, however, able to duplicate the surging, specifically where the Markers are. I pushed mark, each time a large surge was felt towards the end. The boost control was much smoother and the N75 valve was moving the actuator much more frequently the day I did this log. Let me know what you think. :)
 

Buffer

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2010
Location
Canada
TDI
06 Jetta
Still no answer for this problem?

I've been through two dealers and a bunch of mechanics.

I swear if one more person blames the EGR or MAF, I will loose my mind.

I had a complete MAF/EGR replacement from a working unit and it did nothing.

I've had this problem since I bought the car and it gets worse in warm, humid weather.

It was 32 degrees (90 Fahrenheit) and 70% humidity the other day and the car would not go over 100km/hr was sticking around 2,000 RPM blowing smoke... the whole bit. I'm almost at the point now where I don't feel the car is safe to drive in warm weather.

I've heard of so many people having this problem, why can't someone fix it?
 

sixamskier

Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Location
Blackfoot, Idaho
TDI
2006 Jetta
I've been through two dealers and a bunch of mechanics.

I swear if one more person blames the EGR or MAF, I will loose my mind.

I had a complete MAF/EGR replacement from a working unit and it did nothing.

I've had this problem since I bought the car and it gets worse in warm, humid weather.

It was 32 degrees (90 Fahrenheit) and 70% humidity the other day and the car would not go over 100km/hr was sticking around 2,000 RPM blowing smoke... the whole bit. I'm almost at the point now where I don't feel the car is safe to drive in warm weather.

I've heard of so many people having this problem, why can't someone fix it?
I am determined to find a solution! I have read through thread after thread of the same problem with no solution at the end. When people find out what's wrong and what fixed the problem they really should take the time to help everyone else that is likely going through the same problems. Sorry, I guess I'm venting a little bit, and I've run out of ideas again, and I don't have the money to through parts at it. I'm going to pull my turbo and intake today for cleaning and hopefully find some problems. The MAF is also a subject as it never goes above 750 mg on vcds even though the requested is in the 850s. The EGR output test kills the engine unless the engine is warm after driving a while. Anyways, I hope I can eventually find the problem.
 

Mach1

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Location
Spicewood, Tx.
TDI
05.5 Jetta 5 spd, 06 Jetta DE DSG, 04 F250 6L, 2000 F250 7.3L
I am working the same problem and it seems to be when the small turbo transistion's into the big turbo...so i am going to start at the N75 valve, and replace a number of vacuum lines(they have some good wear on the hoses).
 

Gigel

Active member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
Europe
TDI
2.0 TDI DSG
Almost same problem with a BKP

Hi guys.

I have been reading the threads on this topic for a while and I have a similar problem with my Passat 3C 2.0 TDI with BKP engine and DSG.

My car has the same problem with the exception of the black smoke.
I can't see any black smoke and the car runs fine over 2000rpm with no error on the engine or nothing like this.

If I put the car in manual while cruising at 1200-1500 rpm and I press the gas it's like nothing is happening .... it takes "ages" to go up to 1800-2000rpm where the turbo kicks in and it's flying.

Before I cleaned the N75 valve it was only getting torque at 2000rpm, now after cleaning the valve it seems to catch power at 1800-1900 but still no power under that.

From what I have read, the rod of the turbo actuator can be adjusted ? Any pics to see exactly how ? (Haven't been under the car yet to check how and where).

A new turbo is not extremely expensive for me but I would ratter avoid spending the money on it if I can fix this by replacing the actuator or something else might be the problem.

Thank you in advance.
 

john_tsouris@hotmail.com

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Location
Tampa
TDI
None now, thank god
More on throttle

I have had this problem from 50,000 miles to 225,000 miles.

I have some additional info:

I notice that if the engine is under hard throttle at low RPM's and hesitating like this and I quickly take my foot off the gas and put it back on.... the car takes off like a rocket. In fact, I also noticed that during the time my car was hesitating, I also noticed the exhaust leak through the EGR cooler flapper valve. As soon as I back off the gas and hammer back down, the car takes off AND the cooler leak goes away..... I'm assuming due to lower pressures in the EGR cooler.

So suddenly backing off the pedal fixes this problem and it does so for me 100% of the time. Question is, what is happening when I take my foot of the 'gas' to fix this?

If I just keep my pedal pushed down, the car eventually takes off on its own.

Anybody come up with a fix?

What would the result be if someone were to force the turbo vanes open to 50% at all times?

And why do TDI owners have to put up with all of these problems? It seems like VW just lets us twist on the rope. I haven't seen a dealer that can fix any of the multiple known problems in these BRM's.
 
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