LessIsMore
Veteran Member
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I do not get that from what I have stated..LessIsMore said:I see, so are you saying that one oil is the same as another? That also seems to be VWs possition, when they fill with ATF and spec 75w-90 in the manual.
Peter - I just wanted to know what you based your opinion on. I do feel lab analysis is valuable.LessIsMore said:If you drain a gear box and observe swirls of glitter in the oil, are you learning the same thing that an analysis will tell you or something better. IOW, does the analysis detect these large particles? If one oil drains black and another drains amber, should this info be treated as anecdotal, and therefore inferior to oil analysis? When I pulled the plug on my factory fill, the the plug was coated with a dark scum, as was the entire internal surface area of the gear box I imagine. How does the oil analysis account for this material?
I’ve only seen your G52 lab analysis and another one at BITOG. Yours was nothing to jump up and down about and the other one was flat out bad.
Use G052 synthetic and it will be the best it can be when you have sub zero temperatures.david_594 said:..... Im running the G52 in my 2000 Jetta. Smoothe as melted butter when warm, but when it gets cold it feels more like a frozen block of butter.
Yeah but some have complained of notchyness in the 02J tranny...Frank M said:Use G052 synthetic and it will be the best it can be when you have sub zero temperatures.
Rob,SUNRG said:LOL - this is sooo true. my shifting was fine and fuel economy very good but here i am tinkering...
i can't help myself though!!
honestly - i've decided i really like the 14.0 cSt Motul Gear 300 that's in now!!!
The G052171A2 is the recommended gear box oil for all the Bora 6-speed transmissions I found listed in the Euro ETKA, be it for a gasser or TDI.SUNRG said:Peter -
FWIW - the other G52, the fully-synthetic G052171A2, lists for $34.07 per liter! Maybe it is the ultra-mega-super gear oil of all of our dreams - i don't know of anyone that's tried it in a TDI though...
supposedly, the fully-synthetic G052171A2 is what was in the MK5 GTI 6-speed manual i test drove the other day . that shifted fine - though i did miss one downshift (probably my fault).
cheers!
I put it in my NB a couple of years ago.SUNRG said:supposedly, the fully-synthetic G052171A2 is what was in the MK5 GTI 6-speed manual i test drove the other day . that shifted fine - though i did miss one downshift (probably my fault).
cheers!
Frank M said:I put it in my NB a couple of years ago.
It stopped my spyder gear hum and shifts excellent in sub zero temps..
the pic of this empty container was taken a couple of years ago.david_594 said:Frank, do you still have any of this oil left over? If you do would you be willing to send out a sample for testing? If you dont want to/done have any I would be willing to order a liter of it to send out a sample from.
It seems like this would be the next logical step in our testing. Right?
The marketing guys at VW must be thinking that some suckers will buy anything.SUNRG said:...FWIW - the other G52, the fully-synthetic G052171A2, lists for $34.07 per liter! ...
these are good questions & i don't know the answers.TDInownow said:Okay, so given the date of the TSB, should I believe that there was G52 (synthetic) in my '03 Jetta from the factory, or G50?
Wondering if I'll start to experience the spider-gear hum now with the G50 in there. What exactly should I be listening for?
Thanks for the information. That validates the desicion I made in Jan - 2003 to use MT-90. It only improved upon my driving pleasure. Michigan, 2002 Golf.SUNRG said:DD sent me some G50, and I just got the V@100c results back from the lab - 15.6 cSt.
Viscosity Comparison @ 100 C(Manual Tranny Fluids)
16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90
15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90
15.6 = VW G50 (synthetic)
15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90
15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90
15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90
14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90
13.8 = Amsoil MTG 75-90
10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80
9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler)
6.3 = VW G52 (mineral)
?? = VW G52 (synthetic - G052171A2) Anyone have some they can send me to get lab tested?
If you check your Bentley Manual / CD-ROM you will see that VW selects the grade of gear oil based (G50, G51, etc.) on the Transaxle used, as determined by the Engine code. As stated previously the viscosities are all the same. The TSB I supplied SUNRG came from my CD-ROM which was current through the 2002 model year. None of the transmissions listed used G52 as original fill, yet this TSB was included.TDInownow said:Okay, so given the date of the TSB, should I believe that there was G52 (synthetic) in my '03 Jetta from the factory, or G50?
Wondering if I'll start to experience the spider-gear hum now with the G50 in there. What exactly should I be listening for?
this thread was started because the above is not true....VW selects the grade of gear oil based (G50, G51, etc.) on the Transaxle used, as determined by the Engine code. As stated previously the viscosities are all the same.
Powder Hound,Powder Hound said:The marketing guys at VW must be thinking that some suckers will buy anything.
Particularly when the "synthetic" label gets applied to group III and group IV bases, as well as the group V base (group V is the only thing you get from Redline), I think I will stay with the Redline I have been using in my '00 transaxle. MTL, no problems (leaks, shifting, notchiness, etc) for 160k miles. Since it is much more shear stable than anything else on the market, I don't anticipate ever changing it unless it decides to become a self machining device.
Rob,SUNRG said:this thread was started because the above is not true.
OEM G50 (synthetic) V@100c = 15.6cSt
OEM G52 (mineral / G052726A2) V@100c = 6.3
the difference is jeyegundo!
what we all want to know is:
OEM G52 (synthetic / G052171A2) V@100c = ??
awesome! & thanks!AndyH said:Rob,
I'm going to get a quart of both G052 products today and get samples to the lab. I want to know what the synthetic looks like, and I want a 2nd datapoint on the 6.3 cSt from G052726A2. I'm still very surprised the fluid's this thin.
Andy
SUNRG said:this thread was started because the above is not true.
OEM G50 (synthetic) V@100c = 15.6cSt
OEM G52 (mineral / G052726A2) V@100c = 6.3
the difference is jeyegundo!
what we all want to know is:
OEM G52 (synthetic / G052171A2) V@100c = ??
Around 1987 BMW began using ATF in their manual transmissions, and may still to this day, as I no longer keep current with BMW. Having a "thin" fluid is no suprise to me.AndyH said:Rob,
I'm going to get a quart of both G052 products today and get samples to the lab. I want to know what the synthetic looks like, and I want a 2nd datapoint on the 6.3 cSt from G052726A2. I'm still very surprised the fluid's this thin.
Andy
If I understand this correctly, when some one asks what should they use in their transaxle the best answer is to consult the manual..karlaudi said:Of the 35 Engine codes listed, for the models covered, 24 transmissions are determined to need “G 50 gear oil 75W-90 (synthetic oil)” and 11 are determined to need “G 51 gear oil 75W-90 (synthetic oil)” .
Consulting the ZF North America / ZF Friedrichshafen AG website reveals that even ZF selects transmission fluids based on OEM part numbers, almost exclusively, while referencing too select oil company names/part numbers.
So what about people, like myself who complain of hard shifting in cold weather with the OE fluid??? Am I condemned because the manual states to use G50? I don't think so...karlaudi said:SUNRG, please. What is in VW's Service Manuals is quite clear.
VW and Audi do not tell you that to select the correct gear oil for your VW / Audi transaxle/transmission/ final drive you must first have an independent lab analysis first, before selecting the "correct" refill oil.
All the oils listed in the Bentley Manual, I previously referred too, are all listed as 75W-90 oil viscosities, regardless of the specification of G50 or G51, and as the oil(s) to be used in the transaxles of the models covered.
What determines what “grade” to use, be it G50 or G51, is the Engine Code. Which varies depending on the year and type of engine fitted. Of the 35 engine codes listed, only one transmission is identified – “5-speed, 02J".
karlaudi - you and i don't disagree. from my initial post:While it is fun to "tinker", taking a single oil analysis "fact" and trying to draw some conclusion about what “correct” oil is be used in a transmission without conclusive "proof" that the “original fill” gear oil is either the source of a present or future problem; when so little of the actual “properties” of the OEM approved fluids is little known; were there are no “control groups”; nor is a "tear down inspection" of the "test" transmission provided; it makes me wonder how you can draw the conclusion(s) you do beyond some desire to find some fault, any fault, with the VW “Factory method”.
i am not recommending second guessing VW. i've repeatedly posted that my shifting with G52 was just fine. i personally am experimenting with some other manual transmission fluids - but i'm not recommending that anyone else does. i have stated that IMHO if someone was bent on going with something other than OEM mineral G52 that Redline MTL seems like it may be the most similar after-market option.TITLE: stick with (OEM) G52 in ur tranny - here's why...
If your transmission specifies G52 fluid I highly recommend sticking with it as opposed to changing it out for one of the popular/common replacement manual transmission fluids because the viscosity of G52 is much thinner:
Viscosity Comparison @ 100 C
**the 75-90 viscosity of common gear / manual transmission oils is IMO not suitable for use in VW transmissions where G52 is specified.**10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80
13.8 = Amsoil MTG 75-90
15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90
15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90
15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90
16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90
6.3 = OEM G52 (part numbers G052726A2 / G05272601)
i took "etc" to mean G52, and the viscosity of G52 is not the same as G50 or G51 - that's all.(G50, G51, etc.) ... As stated previously the viscosities are all the same.