92 4Runner V6 ALH Swap

jimbote said:

yes, all the transmissions I listed above have the same bell housing to transmission bolt pattern

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Wow. Never knew that. Very good to know.

Just to note, spoke with ev1guy. He does not currently have a toyota kit and the kits he does offer are listed at ~$1200 without a flywheel. I think I'll stick with the Acme kit at $800 and do the alignment procedure listed above.

Any ideas on tach signal, glow plug light and check engine light?

davidm2232 said:

As far as clutches go, I would say Southbend is the name in performance clutches. We will be using the 5vzfe flywheel and clutch setup. Southbend claims 400 ft-lb and I know many TDIs with South bends that have zero clutch issues.

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This isn't a MK4 tdi, its a big heavy Toyota. Can't say we didn't warn you,

turbovan+tdi said:

This isn't a MK4 tdi, its a big heavy Toyota. Can't say we didn't warn you,

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I can't imagine a stock 4runner clutch could hold 400 ft-lb. I guess we will see when everything goes together. I told southbend what I was building and they said their stage 2 endurance would be perfect.

Any ideas on a turbo? Definitely want to stay VNT but not sure what I need. Was thinking 17-22 but not sure if that will fit around the starter.

turbovan+tdi said:

This isn't a MK4 tdi, its a big heavy Toyota. Can't say we didn't warn you,

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this ^^ vehicle weight, tire size, tire rotational mass and gearing all have an effect on a clutches ability to hold... that being said i have heard good things about sb clutches in toyota conversions

I appreciate the warnings and advice, but the adapter and clutch are ordered. I will follow the advice and center/dowel pin the adapter. We are committed to that as of now. Let's focus on the things that haven't been decided/ordered. I still need to determine a turbo as well as a few wiring issues.

wasn't disagreeing with your clutch choice, was just saying a clutch that holds "xxx ft lb" in a 3100 lb car with 24" tall tires will not hold up the same in a vehicle that weighs more with taller heavier tires .... i'm sure the SB clutch you have coming will hold up just fine .... please post photos when it arrives, im curious as to what parts they used as a base for the upgrade

jimbote said:

wasn't disagreeing with your clutch choice, was just saying a clutch that holds "xxx ft lb" in a 3100 lb car with 24" tall tires will not hold up the same in a vehicle that weighs more with taller heavier tires .... i'm sure the SB clutch you have coming will hold up just fine .... please post photos when it arrives, im curious as to what parts they used as a base for the upgrade

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Agreed. Just looked at the tq rating for the VW clutch. The Stage 2 Endurance is rated at 350 ftlbs. That supported about the same mods I will be making to this engine in a Jetta with no slip issues. I think the 400 ftlb rating and larger surface area of the 4runner clutch should be adequate.

jimbote said:

wasn't disagreeing with your clutch choice, was just saying a clutch that holds "xxx ft lb" in a 3100 lb car with 24" tall tires will not hold up the same in a vehicle that weighs more with taller heavier tires .... i'm sure the SB clutch you have coming will hold up just fine .... please post photos when it arrives, im curious as to what parts they used as a base for the upgrade

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Seems to me that to a clutch torque is just torque, whether it's developed in getting a light car to accelerate, or a heavier car with less acceleration. I certainly grant that it is easier to develop the torque in the truck.

Well, yes and no. I have had clutch slip issues that are present when towing a trailer (more weight) that are not there when empty. So weight does play a factor. Still, the SBC should be adequate. Any ideas on a turbo? Really don't want to make a manifold.

UFO said:

Seems to me that to a clutch torque is just torque, whether it's developed in getting a light car to accelerate, or a heavier car with less acceleration. I certainly grant that it is easier to develop the torque in the truck.

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Torque isn't torque, because of the way its produced, lol. A diesel produces it very low in the rpm range, so for a gas engine is designed to hold it at a higher rpm. That's why for example, a Centerforce clutch is useless in turbo applications.

So a clutch designed to hold a 400 ft/lb V6 isn't the same as a clutch designed for a 400 ft/lb diesel.

turbovan+tdi said:

Torque isn't torque, because of the way its produced, lol. A diesel produces it very low in the rpm range, so for a gas engine is designed to hold it at a higher rpm. That's why for example, a Centerforce clutch is useless in turbo applications.

So a clutch designed to hold a 400 ft/lb V6 isn't the same as a clutch designed for a 400 ft/lb diesel.

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Centerforce is different. Most clutches do not change clamping force with RPM.

UFO said:

Centerforce is different. Most clutches do not change clamping force with RPM.

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Did you actually read what I wrote?

turbovan+tdi said:

Did you actually read what I wrote?

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I quoted it didn't I? I have a Centerforce, you do know how they work, right?

UFO said:

I quoted it didn't I? I have a Centerforce, you do know how they work, right?

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I know Centerforce is different, hence why I said it. They work great, I have a few customers using them but NOT in turbo vehicles. They do seem to work ok in Diesel trucks, IE Ford, Cummins etc.

Got the V6 removed over the weekend. Took me maybe 5 hours altogether. From the horror stories about the top belhousing bolts, I thought those were two of the easier ones. Exhaust was much more of a pain. In the process of doing a rear ABS delete and then will be installing the body lift. It will probably be a few days before I get any of that done. In the meantime, any ideas about tach wiring or turbos? Also, anyone have experience with wiring the Toyota steering wheel buttons to VW cruise? It uses one wire and each switch has a different resistance. No idea how I'm going to get that to interface.

it's tough pulling the v6, did a motor change a few years back on a 90' runner ... manual says to pull the engine and trans together and split on them outside the truck but i chose the hard way as well .... as for the cruise stalk not sure you can get the toy stalk working with the vw ecm easily ... i used a cut down vw cruise stalk attached to the toy column

Great thread! It's good to get a more complete explanation of what I've been trying to figure out anyhow.

jimbote said:

it's tough pulling the v6, did a motor change a few years back on a 90' runner ... manual says to pull the engine and trans together and split on them outside the truck but i chose the hard way as well .... as for the cruise stalk not sure you can get the toy stalk working with the vw ecm easily ... i used a cut down vw cruise stalk attached to the toy column

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I recently pulled and swapped two 3VZ-Es without too much difficulty. I yanked the 3.0/automatic out of my T100 donor truck (separated on the ground), pulled the blown engine out of my 4wd five speed truck, then swapped the good engine in. Just realized, I had deleted my crossover pipe before all this, so the top bellhousing bolts were purdy easy. Also, I had the front core support and left inner fender removed. (minor details....)

JudahC said:

Great thread! It's good to get a more complete explanation of what I've been trying to figure out anyhow.

I recently pulled and swapped two 3VZ-Es without too much difficulty. I yanked the 3.0/automatic out of my T100 donor truck (separated on the ground), pulled the blown engine out of my 4wd five speed truck, then swapped the good engine in. Just realized, I had deleted my crossover pipe before all this, so the top bellhousing bolts were purdy easy. Also, I had the front core support and left inner fender removed. (minor details....)

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yeah that crossover pipe adds much difficulty to the procedure... i was able to get at the six nuts and move it out of the way for top bell bolt access but it was a knuckle scraper for sure

Engine adapter/bell-housing alignment tool...

Trying to wrap my head around the above tool?

turbovan+tdi said:

Trying to wrap my head around the above tool?

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Unbolt bell-housing from trans bolt this tool to where the flywheel bolts and slip bell-housing over tool. Tighten down bell-housing hardware drill for dowel alignment pins into adapter plate. Insert dowels into adapter, remove bell-housing and reassemble transmission bell-housing assembly. It aligns the input shaft to crank no dial indicator needed

I'm kind of confused. Opened up the adapter plate yesterday and there are dowel pins for the Toyota transmission. Is this a change in design or are we talking about the dowel pins on the TDI block? Instructions with the kit said to remove those. It bolts up pretty snugly to the block so I don't think there is too much room for adjustment. In any case, got the TDI mocked up in the 4runner engine bay. It fits pretty good. Did need to trim the driver's side mount to clear the A/C compressor and massage the firewall to fit the vacuum pump. Having issues with the steering stabilizer though. Engine needs to go down another couple inches but is sitting right on the stabilizer. Any ideas? ECU, gas pedal, and OBD connector are hooked up. I was able to turn the key on and pull codes so that is awesome. Pics to follow.

Adapter Plate. Notice the dowel pins for the 4runner transmission


2 1" square tube spacers welded together to raise the trans off the crossmember



Engine is in the 4runner for the first time!!


Vacuum pump clearance. There should be a little more room after dropping the front of the engine down.


Need to drop steering stabilizer down somehow or maybe delete it



TDI gas pedal is mounted and wired. Had to trim off the bracket that held the kickdown switch for clearance. It still hits the carpet but I have not checked in vagcom to see if it makes 100% or not. May have to do more carpet/pedal trimming.


OBD Connector. It will mount nicely under the dash right above the gas pedal


Spaghetti ECU wires. I decided to move the ECU inside and put it in the stock Toyota location. I cut out all the gas engine wiring and may have accidentally clipped wires that engage the front hubs. I'll look into that after we are up and running.


Advance auto had this fuse block for $10. Much easier than trying to adapt toyota or vw fuses for new circuits


Motor mount trimmed for A/C clearance

davidm2232 said:

I'm kind of confused. Opened up the adapter plate yesterday and there are dowel pins for the Toyota transmission. Is this a change in design or are we talking about the dowel pins on the TDI block? Instructions with the kit said to remove those. It bolts up pretty snugly to the block so I don't think there is too much room for adjustment. In any case, got the TDI mocked up in the 4runner engine bay. It fits pretty good. Did need to trim the driver's side mount to clear the A/C compressor and massage the firewall to fit the vacuum pump. Having issues with the steering stabilizer though. Engine needs to go down another couple inches but is sitting right on the stabilizer. Any ideas? ECU, gas pedal, and OBD connector are hooked up. I was able to turn the key on and pull codes so that is awesome. Pics to follow.

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there are no dowel pins for alignment with the acme plate ... it is a fatal flaw which must be addressed or you will have clutch wear, vibration, input shaft bearing wear, pilot bearing wear or any/all the above... http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=429695... my advice for the most accurate centering is to pick up or borrow a small dial indicator, rig it solidly to the crank, buy an assortment of metric dowel pins at your local industrial supply ... center the bell using the dial indicator method and backweld the dowels to the adapter plate through the rear .... good luck!

EDIT:....so now I see dowel pins for the trans side of the adapter plate...maybe he just started adding these? ....I would still check the accuracy of alignment as I saw some difference between blocks when the adapter was swapped between them .... could you post some closer pictures of the alignment dowels?...they look to be pass through where toyota uses solid doweling for engine to trans alignment

jimbote said:

there are no dowel pins for alignment with the acme plate ... it is a fatal flaw which must be addressed or you will have clutch wear, vibration, input shaft bearing wear, pilot bearing wear or any/all the above... http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=429695... my advice for the most accurate centering is to pick up or borrow a small dial indicator, rig it solidly to the crank, buy an assortment of metric dowel pins at your local industrial supply ... center the bell using the dial indicator method and backweld the dowels to the adapter plate through the rear .... good luck!

EDIT:....so now I see dowel pins for the trans side of the adapter plate...maybe he just started adding these? ....I would still check the accuracy of alignment as I saw some difference between blocks when the adapter was swapped between them .... could you post some closer pictures of the alignment dowels?...they look to be pass through where toyota uses solid doweling for engine to trans alignment

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His adapter is defensively different from mine he does have some sort of dowel right by his starter cut out on the bottom

jimbote said:

there are no dowel pins for alignment with the acme plate ... it is a fatal flaw which must be addressed or you will have clutch wear, vibration, input shaft bearing wear, pilot bearing wear or any/all the above... http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=429695... my advice for the most accurate centering is to pick up or borrow a small dial indicator, rig it solidly to the crank, buy an assortment of metric dowel pins at your local industrial supply ... center the bell using the dial indicator method and backweld the dowels to the adapter plate through the rear .... good luck!

EDIT:....so now I see dowel pins for the trans side of the adapter plate...maybe he just started adding these? ....I would still check the accuracy of alignment as I saw some difference between blocks when the adapter was swapped between them .... could you post some closer pictures of the alignment dowels?...they look to be pass through where toyota uses solid doweling for engine to trans alignment

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I'll get some closer pictures next time I pull the engine. If I can find a spare ax-15 to pull apart, I'll check the alignment. If not, I'm going to say good enough.

It's pretty easy to pull the trans apart I would do it just to check his alignment as him pre said. Some people were off by .05 some were off by .10+ so that to me tells me not all vw blocks or adapters are created equally on a precise jig

Didn't get a chance to get into the garage last night. Have a few questions though. Acme says to use a 3.4 v6 starter with the cold weather option. All I see are ones for an automatic. Anyone know if these will work? I have a bad story about an automatic starter on a manual Jetta. Let's just say they are NOT compatible!!

In other news, my obd cable to read ecu maps arrived yesterday so I can start working with that. Should be an experience for sure!

Got a chance to get into the garage last night and tonight. Got the motor and trans mated up. Ended up having to grind down the driver's side dowel pin and drill out the hole in the trans. It was about 1/8" too big! Acme is going to hear from me on that one!! Also got the motor mount crossmember welded in, passat mounts bolted on and the rest of the mount bracket mocked up. Hoping to weld it all tomorrow or Friday. Sorry but I don't have any pictures. Phone was dead. I'll get a bunch tomorrow.