ALH TDI engine transplant into '84 Vanagon

markward

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
Jon, a read a post where someone suggested setting the IQ adaption back to stock in the software and then do the hammer mod to 5 - 6 and then fine tune in the software with adaption. It won't hurt to try. That would give me more adjustment since that is where I ended up changing the adaption. Last time I did the hammer mod I mentioned the pump started to leak a few months later. I think the original seal did not like being disturbed. With the new seal it may be better. I am nitpicking at this point, but it would be worth a try. I can't seem to find how much is too much IQ other than the specified range 3 -9 . Maybe we can become the experts. Do these ECU's have a high rev cutout? Mine revs up pretty quick in the lower gears now and I expected to hit some sort of limiter. mark
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Well, guys I have been in slow-gear lately with my Conversion project. I'm posting a few photos of the nice clean pressure washed engine. I'll post the "before" photos later. They are on another camera.











 
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AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Yep, nothing but 1500 psi cold water.... no chemicals, no heat, no brush, etc. Also, all holes, etc., were taped off to keep water out of places it need not be. The Intake manifold was on when pressure washing.

And, actually, that engine was not too bad dirty... mostly road grime that I wanted off. A clean engine is more enjoyable to work with anyway..

I have also pressure washed engine bay of the Vanagon it is going into. I plan to go over it again....using chemicals if necessary.
 

jjordan11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Location
Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Very clean, you have a talent with cleaning parts (engines & transmissions). Sometimes it's good to be able to take your time with projects, I only have one challenge/request. This goes out to any TDI Vanagon owner. Have it ready for next years TDIfest. I thought I was going to be able to go this year, but it's not looking likely. :(

Jon
 
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AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
I'd love to go to a TDI Fest. Only problem, they are held Labor Day weekend which is the same time as the Meadors and Begley family reunions. The Meadors (pronounced med oars) reunion has been a tradition since 9/8/88 which was the 100th anniversery of my grandfather's birth, 9/8/1888.

Yes, I'm hoping to move things along much faster the balance of the summer and into the fall. Really, most everything is ready. It's just a matter of "doing it" now!

On a second inspection, there are no holes in the frame for the diesel mounting bars. So, that's going to be a challenge. I'll be removing all the splash tin out of the engine bay tomorrow. Since I use this Vanagon on a fairly regular basis (weekends with the wife and her photography, wild flowers, etc.), I need to do a little work to the ole '83 AC and transfer insurance over to it....hopefully all that can be done this coming week.

Then, I'll be ready to drop the 1.9 gasser engine and commence the mounting system.
 

jjordan11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Location
Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Ah, I see. Family first, that is why I'm not going to this years fest. Maybe we'll have to make a trip down to the southeast sometime next year. I look forward to your progress pictures of the conversion.
 

syncroserge

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2001
Location
Okotoks, Alberta, Canada
TDI
91 ALH Syncro Westfalia
On a second inspection, there are no holes in the frame for the diesel mounting bars.
That's strange..the last conversion I did was in an 84 and all the mounting
points, front and back, were there. A friend with an 82 air-cooled has all
the holes for the diesel bars.

I am presently working on putting an AAZ in my daughter's 82 diesel Westy.
The engine bay is still empty so if you need pics for comparison let me know.
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Holes in frame

That's strange..the last conversion I did was in an 84 and all the mounting
points, front and back, were there. A friend with an 82 air-cooled has all
the holes for the diesel bars.

I am presently working on putting an AAZ in my daughter's 82 diesel Westy.
The engine bay is still empty so if you need pics for comparison let me know.
Well, gees, I hope I just missed it. I'll need to take another look. I was doing the inspection after pressure washing and water was dripping all over.

That gives me hope!:D

Yes, send me a pic or two of the area where the bars bolt-up.
 
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markward

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
Andy, it cleaned up nice. I am not used to looking at one sitting straight up. Looks like a different engine all together. Stay after it. mark
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Mark, yesterday, I began the process of modifying the oil pan that I had fabricated back in the spring. It had more wrong with it than the angle issue. The clearance at the oil pump end is very close with respect to the pump sprocket/chain. The weld bead actually prevented the pan from being bolted up. Also, the angle coming away from the engine made it extremely tight at the AC Pump.

Anyway, I cut it off and have been making a jig for the next welder to use in tacking the new pan together. I plan to use thinner aluminum stock than the first welder used... way to thick and heavy.

Also, I am curious as to whether the oil baffle on the bottom-end is necessary since the engine will be laying over at 50 degree.

It appears modification to the oil pump pick-up tube will be pretty straight forward... just changing the angle.

I have photos that I will try to post very soon.

Bummer ........ yesterday morning, I hit a deer with my 2000 Jetta TDI.......$852.00 damage (covered under comprehensive). Luckily the Air-bags did not deploy! Unfortunately the deer was a very small fawn with the white spots. From time-to-time for the last two or three weeks we had been seeing that little fellow and his mother. It jumped off a bank into the road immediately in front of me.. no warning. I was only doing about 30 mph (on my country road). It died instantly, since both left wheels got it after the bumper malled it good!
 
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markward

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
Andy, bummer about the suicidal deer. He was probably fighting depression since birth. I am sorry I don't remember my pan's inner workings. Been 10 years. I think you need a bafflel more for braking and going down hill. A flat pan would allow the oil to slosh forward pretty easy. If you are going to redo the pan, remember I sent you a link to an aluminum pan that has a bolt on steel bottom. It might be a cleaner install to use one of these. I don't recall if it was IDI, Kerma or another notable vendor. This way you have a good solid platform to fabricate from. Just an idea. My pan still weeps. I need to pull it down at some point and make a decision. I might consider using the two peice pan and then designing a bolt on pan for Vanagon installs. Or maybe not. I can tell you if you intend to keep the AC compressor, the stock diesel carrier bar will not clear it. I was able to cut and reindex my bar further out. Keep this in mind if you are going to need to drill bolt holes in the valance for the carrier bars. mark
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Okay, more work and inspecting today.

Yes, the carrier bar bolt-up holes are there! No doubt! During the previous inspection I was laying on my side with the pressure washer wand and was really looking thru water spray and dirty glasses....lol.

Still no final thought on the oil pan. The baffle I was talking about is attached to the bottom of the engine (maybe baffle is not the correct term). It is similar to the plastic piece under the valve cover. It appears to catch drain back oil from up above as well as sling from the rods/mains and drains it out right at the oil pick-up tube!

Yes, I did notice today that the TDI AC pump will conflict with the carrier bar... wow, what a bummer. Well, I guess mine will just have to be modified to "work" cause I like the TDI AC pump!

Over the weekend, I prepared a 3-point chain/bar hook-up for hanging the engine off the hoist. The 3-point hook-up allows it to lay over at the 50 degree angle (right on the money). I needed that configuration to better understand the oil pan, the oil pump pickup tube and the AC pump!
 

jjordan11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Location
Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Suicidal deer, that made me laugh. What stock are/did you guys using to weld up the aluminum? I tried to weld on a cracked Passat Al. pan and it didn't work so well. I'm just begining and have quite the learning curve. Just curious.

Jon
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Actually, I was referred to a dude that's been a mechanic/welder all his life. He's semi-retired and works on Honda Goldwing Motorcycles.

I'm not sure what type of welder or stock he used. His weld beads are almost perfect. I went into this with my head up my rear. I took a 1.6 diesel pan for him to use as a guide... explained the 50 degree angle, etc. I also gave him a copy of the photos displayed earlier in this Thread showing how the pan will look in relation to the tranny. And, I did give him a copy of the CAD drawing of the TDI engine laying over on the 50 degree angle.

Well, while I was there, he ran the TDI pan thru the band saw and left approximately 2 inches all the way around. A few days later, I called and ask if he had started welding it together. He had not. So, I ask him to take off another 3/4 inch all the way around ......... he only took off 3/4 inch on the top side. So, the bottom of the pan is not parallel with the ground. And, the oil pump sprocket and chain was solid up against the weld seam on the pan. He used 1/4 or 5/16 inch stock ....... it was darn heavy.

Anyway, it is all a part and I am going to have another dude make a pan from scratch using the TDI stubby!.

One other update: The pilot bearing was delivered by UPS today (NOS). Without really knowing, I ordered a pilot bearing for the Vanagon OEM setup. It fits the TDI crankshaft perfect!
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Below are photos with the engine and oil pan relating to the 50 degree angle.

This is a photo of a 1.6 Oil Pan (on left) and the modified ALH Oil Pan. It is obvious that the ALH modification is not correct.


The photo below is of the end of the engine with ALH Oil Pan cut off and a angle reflecting proper alignment necessary to achieve the 50 degree angle.


This photo shows the end of the engine with the ALH Oil Pan cut off.


This photo shows the Oil Pump sprocket/chain without Oil Pan


This photo shows the bottom end from the side reflecting the Oil Pump, pickup tube, etc.. Note the cut off Oil Pan is on.


This photo is from the flywheel end of the engine. The Bell Housing is on and you are seeing the 50 degree angle.
 
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AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Today, I removed the exhaust system and heat shields from the Vanagon engine. It appears there are only two bolt holes for each carrrier bar in the rear. However, the two sets of carrier bars I have contain three holes in the rear flanges. The front flanges and holes in the frame are okay.

So, do I have an older set or later set of carrier bars? Also, it doesn't look promising to add the third hole. Will two bolts on each side in the rear be sufficient to hold a TDI engine?...... a little iffy to me!

Any suggestions?
 

syncroserge

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2001
Location
Okotoks, Alberta, Canada
TDI
91 ALH Syncro Westfalia
The diesel Vanagons had these plates welded to the rear cross member. They
have a welded nut for the third attachement point.

So that the rear of a diesel van looks like this:

I have seen both air-cooled and wbx vans with one or even both of
the plates.

I also have lots of pictures and info that could be helpful for the oil pan.
I'll try to find time to post what I have...wish I had 36 hour days :rolleyes:
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Wow, thanks for those photos and info. Unfortunately, my 84 WBXer only has the two bottom holes and not a top hole.

So, those plates add support to the mounting area. And, it appears that the two bottom bolts are the only ones that actually attach directly to the back frame. The third bolt (top) provides support and no direct attachment to back frame.
 
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markward

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
Andy, I need to look at mine a little closer. It would be easy enough to make a 3/16 ths or 1/4 inch plate to mimic what you see in the picture. The plate should probably be welded to the valance, but you might be able to make a tab/gusset to support the top of the plate and bolt through the top of the valance inplace of welding. To make room for the a/c compressor, I had to fabricate a new plate for the R/R carrier. It utilized the original 3 bolt holes and then I added two more 8mm holes further out on the valance. I'll try to shoot a picture tomorrow. mark
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Use of photos

Andy,

Do you mind if I use the picture #3 on post #62 for an instruction purposes.

I'm trying to help a forum member how to install a zerostart coolant heater.

Thx,
No, go right ahead use that photo or any other photo. I have lots of photos besides the ones posted. If there is a particular view you would like to see, let me know.
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Well, today I did some more pressure washing on the WBXer engine, transmission, engine bay, trailing arms, axles, CV joints, under carriage, etc.

I have to do a TB job on my brother's '01 Jetta TDI later this month. So, by then the Vanagon will be ready to go into the garage for hopefully a month or two while doing the engine swap.......Wow!......... is that snow falling outside?

In the meantime, I need to get the ole '83 Air Cooled Vanagon running.... needs a battery and changing of a fuel line! I have to have a Vanagon to run here and there!...LOL
 

markward

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
Andy, I emailed you some pictures of my r/s rear carrier mount. Let me know if you don't get them. I know your email address changed at some point. mark
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Mark, I did not get the photos. I'll to see if they ended up in Junk mail................edit: Yes, found the e-mail with the photos, thanks!

I know this is off topic. My project will be on hold for awhile. My 85 year old father had a heart attack on the 12th. So, for the last 8 days we've been making the 2 and a half hour one way drive to Lexington, Ky to see him. He's doing pretty good considering that his 4 by-passes that were done 16 years ago were as follows: one 100% open, one 100% blocked, one 50% blocked and one 95% blocked. The doc did a stent on the 95% blockage.

Tomorrow, he will be going for further rehab at a local nursing home. Hopefully, in about two weeks or less he can move in with us...........got to love 'em!
 
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JoaoT4

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Location
Portugal
TDI
Eurovan Conversion
Andy, My VSS speed sensor on the back of my stock vanagon is suitable for a speed reference for the ecu and cruise control, but is about 30 mph off in the VAG COM.
During the weekend I mounted the VSS on the back of the cluster.



Today I cut the pin 7 from the cluster to solder to the pin 51 of the ECU. It worked like a charm. Now the ECU can see the van speed and I think that I have more power. The engine sometimes stutters under acceleration and I think that it was because of the VSS.
Now I can also connect the cruise control. I already enable it with the vag-com.

João
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Does anyone have a photo depicting the amount the ALH engine protrudes above deck level in the Vanagon? I have realized all along that the IP and some other items would be well above the deck lid.

Anyway, this afternoon, trying to get back to my project a little, I measured the distance from the center of the crankshaft up to the deck lid. It looks to be around 13 inches. Then I measured the distance from the center of the crank on the ALH engine.... about 17 inches to the top of the IP... And, I have a 1.6 Turbo engine sitting on a flat. It measures almost 14 inches to the top of the IP.

So, does the 1.6 Turbo engine and diesel tranny hang just a little lower than the WBXer engine?
 

markward

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Location
Loxahatchee, Florida
TDI
82 Vanagon and 2011 JSW
Andy, I am sorry to hear about your father. Somewhere I saw an engineer drawing of a side view of the diesel engine install vs the wbx install. The diesel install was definitely hanging low in the rear, not level. I tried to explain this before. It was not obvious until I installed the upgraded wbx transmission. I don't know that it is the engine that sits lower as much as the nose of the diesel transmission sits higher. Rather than raise the deck lid entirely, I cut a hole in the cover and made a cap. The cutout covers the oil filter, accessory belt tensioner, the power steering pump bracket, and the injection pump. I had to cut a larger hole when I upgraded to the wbx modified transmission. I also made a new aluminium cap. I think the oil filter could be removed from the block and a remote filter used and then the engine could be drooped even more. This might give you the clearance you need to not modify the engine cover. I am not running power steering, so the pump bracket could be cut and possibley the belt tensioner could be relocated somehow. The shift linkage would need to be adapted as well.

On a positive note, I just returned from a 3000 mile round trip to Wisconsin and back. Zero problems. The new nozzels were just what was needed. I was able to drive up through Chatanooga Tn in 4th gear at 70mph and the cruise set. Hwy mileage is about the same. Coming home, I accelerated up to 86mph easy on the flat, but my wife asked that I save some for the rest of the trip home. I believe 90mph is possible. To those reading this, I believe you will need to increase the power either with nozzles, chip, or both, if you want to regear and have plenty of power for going uphill in a Vanagon camper. Wish I had done it before our trip out west last spring. I don't know how the clutch and input shaft will hold up pushing that box up hill. mark
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Mark, thanks for the concerns about my father. He will be coming home tomorrow. The rehab at the nursing home has made a very positive difference.

Well, it is my intent to raise the entire deck lid. I think I may have elaborated on that previously. If not here goes; I'm cutting the sealing lip out of a donor at a junk yard. I'll center that lip about two or three inches directly above the existing lip. There will have to be additional spacers, framing, etc. to make it work. I do believe that ply-board and carpet will make it very presentable and usable!

I was just curious about how the 1.6 looked hanging in there........ no much up and down room!

Next Monday, my brother will be up from Atlanta for a TB job. Once his car is out of my garage, the Vanagon is going in!
 
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