Best Cheap Car for Jordan?

Beetlemaniac · Apr 23, 2018

I'm moving to Jordan this summer for a three-year assignment and need a car to take there. My wife can't go, at least for now, so it'll just be me. What do you guys think would be the best car for there, assuming a realistic budget of $20K US +/- $2K? I am considering a VW Golf, a Subaru Crosstrek, a VW Tiguan Limited, or a Honda HR-V (w/ AWD).

I have some warranty concerns with bringing a car from the USA, but don't want to be forced to sell it at the end of the tour, as I would with a non U.S.-spec car. I also would like the car to be at least okay for hiking/camping, etc. there.

oilhammer · Apr 24, 2018

I would not bother with shipping a car back and forth, nor would I want to deal with a US spec anything over there for three years.

I'd buy something slightly used THERE, use it for the time you are there, and sell it before returning home.

I do not know what cars are popular/common there, but I would likely go for a fuel efficient and reliable choice from that standpoint.

A quick google search shows Toyota holds a nearly 20% market share there, with the Prius (not sure which one, as there are many, and the one(s) sold there may be very different than those sold here) holding 15% of total sales there alone. They tend to go after smaller more fuel efficient cars it would seem. Volkswagen is not anywhere on the top 10.

tadawson · Apr 24, 2018

turbobrick240 · Apr 24, 2018

I think a Golf tdi would be great. Diesel is quite a bit cheaper than gas there.

Mike in Anchorage · Apr 24, 2018

You may be able to find a used Toyota 4WD or AWD in a with a diesel manual there. When we visited, I saw a few and lusted after them. The wadis can be fun to explore but have inconsistent traction, so a good SUV will get you around with less worries. You'll also see diesel Land Rovers, but they are more spendy and a bit more quirky. Rust is seldom a problem there.

turbobrick240 · Apr 24, 2018

oilhammer said:
A quick google search shows Toyota holds a nearly 20% market share there, with the Prius (not sure which one, as there are many, and the one(s) sold there may be very different than those sold here) holding 15% of total sales there alone. They tend to go after smaller more fuel efficient cars it would seem. Volkswagen is not anywhere on the top 10.

I just did a quick search too, and was surprised by what I found. Besides Toyota- Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes, and BMW sell very well there. I wonder why VW does so poorly. I remember watching a documentary film where a young guy from Israel drove his tired old beetle over to Jordan to get the air cooled boxer rebuilt . Maybe the whole car got refreshed. Great film(subtitles) called The Beetle. Anyhow, maybe there's a strong association between VW and old automotive tech in Jordan. Or maybe VW views it as too small a market to be worth their time.

oilhammer · Apr 25, 2018

Volkswagen had a different following back in the '60s... the old air cooled stuff was the polar opposite of the newer (Audi derived) models. Tough, SIMPLE, sturdy, and easy to keep going.

If I had to traverse Africa, and I was offered a "new" 1965 Transporter or a "new" 2015 Transporter... I'd take the '65 in a heartbeat. May not be as fast, or as comfortable, but you'll never have to worry about any warning lights coming on, a ball joint popping out of socket from smashing into a deep rut in what passes for a road, etc. There are STILL rear engined air cooled Transporters on the roads in certain parts of Africa, as well as old carburetted Land Rovers, and old W115 MB models. Sometimes the old tech just works better in those extreme areas. The old air cooled stuff was so popular in Australia that Volkswagen built a plant there to assemble Beetles and Transporters... later on, they not only stopped building stuff there, they stopped selling stuff there altogether save for commercial vehicles. They eventually returned, but will never enjoy the market share they once had.

I think the Middle East areas have been taken over by Japanese and Korean brands largely because they are good and building things the same way Volkswagen used to: simple, cheap, reliable. Volkswagen has taken the complexity so far to the extreme and slowly but surely has removed the holdover old models from their portfolio. The Beetle was still being built largely as it had been for decades up until 2003. The T2 Transporter (albeir with an inline water cooled engine) was still in production in Brazil until just recently... a design that debuted in 1968! The T3 Transporter (again, with an updated version of an older inline water cooled engine) was being built in South Africa until 2005, alongside the A1 Golf (called the CityGolf, the car we knew of as the Rabbit)... a design from 1974.

Toyota is still building J70 Land Cruisers, a design that dates back to 1984, which is itself a facelifted modernized version of the old J40 that dates back to 1960!

Growing concern for safety, emissions, and modern conveniences are what is pushing these models away. Shame, because they are good designs. I'd buy a new diesel F60 Land Cruiser today if I could.

turbobrick240 · Apr 25, 2018

A diesel landcruiser would be at the top of my list too- and they should be pretty plentiful in Jordan. Last year Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, and Lexus owned 75% of the new car sales there! So Hyundai and Toyota are really quite dominant. Cost of ownership must be a big factor.

Zheking · Apr 30, 2018

A nissan patrol. Diesel SUV.

tadawson · Apr 30, 2018

oilhammer said:
Volkswagen had a different following back in the '60s... the old air cooled stuff was the polar opposite of the newer (Audi derived) models. Tough, SIMPLE, sturdy, and easy to keep going.

If I had to traverse Africa, and I was offered a "new" 1965 Transporter or a "new" 2015 Transporter... I'd take the '65 in a heartbeat. May not be as fast, or as comfortable, but you'll never have to worry about any warning lights coming on, a ball joint popping out of socket from smashing into a deep rut in what passes for a road, etc. There are STILL rear engined air cooled Transporters on the roads in certain parts of Africa, as well as old carburetted Land Rovers, and old W115 MB models. Sometimes the old tech just works better in those extreme areas. The old air cooled stuff was so popular in Australia that Volkswagen built a plant there to assemble Beetles and Transporters... later on, they not only stopped building stuff there, they stopped selling stuff there altogether save for commercial vehicles. They eventually returned, but will never enjoy the market share they once had.

I think the Middle East areas have been taken over by Japanese and Korean brands largely because they are good and building things the same way Volkswagen used to: simple, cheap, reliable. Volkswagen has taken the complexity so far to the extreme and slowly but surely has removed the holdover old models from their portfolio. The Beetle was still being built largely as it had been for decades up until 2003. The T2 Transporter (albeir with an inline water cooled engine) was still in production in Brazil until just recently... a design that debuted in 1968! The T3 Transporter (again, with an updated version of an older inline water cooled engine) was being built in South Africa until 2005, alongside the A1 Golf (called the CityGolf, the car we knew of as the Rabbit)... a design from 1974.

Toyota is still building J70 Land Cruisers, a design that dates back to 1984, which is itself a facelifted modernized version of the old J40 that dates back to 1960!

Growing concern for safety, emissions, and modern conveniences are what is pushing these models away. Shame, because they are good designs. I'd buy a new diesel F60 Land Cruiser today if I could.

For what it's worth, in Israel, it's hard to get a cab that *isn't* an E class 300 series Mercedes diesel or very close . . .

- TIm

oilhammer · Apr 30, 2018

Yep, and the cab versions of the E-class I am told are closer to my Sprinter in the utilitarian sense rather than the soft luxo-performance machines marketed here.

tadawson · Apr 30, 2018

Nope, in Israel, what I see are sedans, pretty much identical to the E320 my daughter had here in the states . .

oilhammer · May 1, 2018

Really? All the power and lane departure stuff with the fancy leather seats, 6 cylinder, and automatic transmission, sunroof, etc.? Wouldn't think a cab company would spring for all that, and wouldn't think it would hold up very well given the use either.

We had a local club member who had a W115 that was a European cab version (but was never actually used as such). It was VERY different than the W115s sold here. No power windows or locks, no sunroof, vinyl seats, and a front bench (so it could seat six people), and while it was an automatic, it had the gear selector on the column. It was a 4 cyl diesel, of course. I would have thought MB continued the trend up until present day.

Huh.... $53k cab... whodathunk? Israel is rolling in money I guess.

TDIMeister · May 1, 2018

Been to Jordan twice, a good buddy is from there. As has been advised, dont bring a car there unless it's a beater that you don't mind being wrecked or stolen. Vehicles with engine displacement over 2000cc are heavily taxed.

Its not a camel jockey country. Any car you can find stateside you can get there, plus more.

tadawson · May 1, 2018

oilhammer said:
Really? All the power and lane departure stuff with the fancy leather seats, 6 cylinder, and automatic transmission, sunroof, etc.? Wouldn't think a cab company would spring for all that, and wouldn't think it would hold up very well given the use either.

We had a local club member who had a W115 that was a European cab version (but was never actually used as such). It was VERY different than the W115s sold here. No power windows or locks, no sunroof, vinyl seats, and a front bench (so it could seat six people), and while it was an automatic, it had the gear selector on the column. It was a 4 cyl diesel, of course. I would have thought MB continued the trend up until present day.

Huh.... $53k cab... whodathunk? Israel is rolling in money I guess.

Older and more sparse, but yes . . . but typically diesel and manuals. I think they are a lot cheaper over there (and offered in plainer variants), and they tend to be in very good shape.

And yes, the country is doing well - their primary export is technology . . . .

oilhammer · May 2, 2018

OK, so they ARE very different. I figured so. Because I cannot see, even in relatively wealthy Israel, something as low brow as a taxi cab being a very tarted up model.

So I stand by my earlier statement, that they are probably much more akin to my Sprinter than to a US-spec E350 in the trim.

tadawson · May 2, 2018

All I know is that they really make the cabs in the US look really bad . . . .Not "tarted up", but not "bare bones turd" either. Pretty decently equipped, but nothing over the top. (I've been in US Sprinters, and I'll say that the trim is well above that . . . I found the Sprinters to be pretty utilitarian and barren by comparison . . . but then again, I've not been in a lot of Sprinters either . . .

oilhammer · May 2, 2018

That is the Sprinter's best part... after 500k miles, the interior still looks and functions the same as it did when new. Hard plastics, rubber floors, and canvas seats. Not luxurious, but tough and durable.

That is how that W115 cab was. Cabs here are not really purpose built for the job. Although a few London Taxis have been imported, the cost is pretty high. You can buy a lot of clapped out [insert well used US market anything here] and trash it into the ground for less. And you can source replacement used seats for cheap too, to give the interior a slight refresh.

tadawson · May 2, 2018

Perhaps not the best collection, but here are some photos I found online from a quick search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Isr...hWs5IMKHWT-C2AQ9QEIMjAB#imgrc=90UDM9xQlt6_-M:

Beetlemaniac · May 3, 2018

Thanks for all of the responses. Someone mentioned the local taxes -- I am exempt as long as I take the vehicle out of the country at the end of the tour. If I buy a local vehicle, I either have to sell to someone else with exempt status (good luck with that) or pay all of the (very high) taxes that would have been due when it was first purchased. I have been told it's a buyer's market for that reason -- it is very difficult to sell your vehicle when leaving. So, my thought is to get a U.S. spec vehicle and ship it out of the country at the end of the tour (I don't have to pay the shipping costs, fortunately).

Although it would be nice to have something with ground clearance, AWD, etc., I may end up just getting a basic hatchback for the cost savings and practicality. My wife is pushing for a Honda Fit or something along those lines which would make a good second car later. I guess the VW Golf (or Polo, since they're probably available there) or Mazda 3 would be alternatives. I've also thought of getting a Subaru Impreza or Crosstrek. They're a bit more expensive, but have AWD.

TDIMeister · May 3, 2018

Interesting. Well, I have no suggestions on what car you should bring over, but having been there twice I stand by two things:

1) Don't bring a car that you care about; roads are not great, traffic is pretty crazy compared to what you would be used to in North America, and I'm sure fuel quality is also not up to developed-world standards where sulfur levels are concerned. It's gonna get bumped, damaged or worse.

2) If you're going as a US service person, I don't know whether you'd want to make yourself and your loved ones stand out more than you need to. I mean, Jordan as a country is a US ally, but it is nevertheless an Arab country in a volatile part of the world, and being an ally doesn't mean that everyone on the streets is lowering palm branches for you, so it's probably not wise to make yourself overly conspicuous with the car you drive.

When there, visit St. George's church in Madaba (where my close friend worships). Bethany on the Jordan where Jesus was baptized is actually on the Jordanian side and visiting there is a life-changing experience whether you're Christian or not. I don't need to tell you about Petra and the Dead Sea. There are amazing canyons at the Mujib Nature Reserve near the Dead Sea resorts, and lots more to see during your tour there.

Interesting fact: The late King Hussein was a car guy who rallied and has quite a collection in the royal car museum in Amman including a Ferarri F40.

Beetlemaniac · May 3, 2018

TDIMeister said:
Interesting. Well, I have no suggestions on what car you should bring over, but having been there twice I stand by two things:

1) Don't bring a car that you care about; roads are not great, traffic is pretty crazy compared to what you would be used to in North America, and I'm sure fuel quality is also not up to developed-world standards where sulfur levels are concerned. It's gonna get bumped, damaged or worse.

2) If you're going as a US service person, I don't know whether you'd want to make yourself and your loved ones stand out more than you need to. I mean, Jordan as a country is a US ally, but it is nevertheless an Arab country in a volatile part of the world, and being an ally doesn't mean that everyone on the streets is lowering palm branches for you, so it's probably not wise to make yourself overly conspicuous with the car you drive.

When there, visit St. George's church in Madaba (where my close friend worships). Bethany on the Jordan where Jesus was baptized is actually on the Jordanian side and visiting there is a life-changing experience whether you're Christian or not. I don't need to tell you about Petra and the Dead Sea. There are amazing canyons at the Mujib Nature Reserve near the Dead Sea resorts, and lots more to see during your tour there.

Interesting fact: The late King Hussein was a car guy who rallied and has quite a collection in the royal car museum in Amman including a Ferarri F40.

Thanks for the info. I've seen some of the early Christian sites on the Israeli side, but not much more than Petra so far in Jordan.

Maybe I should just bring a used beater that I can get worked on over there if necessary. I just checked the Jordan dealers and it looks like they don't support the Fit or Polo, but do support Golfs and Mazda 3s. The local duty-exempt used market (i.e. vehicles sold by people departing post) seems to be mostly ancient SUVs, btw....

TDIMeister · May 3, 2018

The running joke is that a Toyota pickup or Land Cruiser would be used by certain people to fight back against you...

Japanese cars are very plentiful and serviceable. And older Diesel would be fine too. All the German brands are well represented for parts and repairs.

Beetlemaniac · May 4, 2018

TDIMeister said:
The running joke is that a Toyota pickup or Land Cruiser would be used by certain people to fight back against you...

Japanese cars are very plentiful and serviceable. And older Diesel would be fine too. All the German brands are well represented for parts and repairs.

I'm not U.S. military, but "certain people" don't make that distinction and just see all Americans as the enemy, so it is best not to stand out too much. I've considered growing a beard again.

My wife is ethnic Japanese, so she is partial to Japanese cars, of course. VWs also appear to be well represented in Jordan, but the most popular brands at the moment are Korean, which I have never owned. Toyota is apparently #3, having been dethroned by Kia and Hyundai. Ford is apparently up there, too, but I swore off them after owning a Pinto.

Anyhow, I think my wife could go for a Mazda3 hatch (there is a Mazda dealer there, as well).

Beetlemaniac · May 7, 2018

Any opinions on the Kia Forte5? It appears to be a Golf lookalike and is relatively inexpensive, with a long warranty (five years bumper-to-bumper, etc.).

oilhammer · May 7, 2018

I used to have good things to say about Hyundai/Kia stuff, but recently they seem to struggle with engines. I have a relative who just got engine #3 installed in her Forte at 90k miles. I think I did a half dozen of them here at the shop last year, that were not warranty.

Shame because they are otherwise decent for the money. But that 100k mile powertrain warranty sure gets used, and when the second hand owner who only gets half that, then people like me get to do them.

Beetlemaniac · May 8, 2018

So, I exchanged emails with a Kia dealer yesterday about a new 2017 Forte5 for sale under $14k. When I asked if it had been used as a loaner, etc., the salesman said "This is a new vehicle. We do not put Kias into loaner service" and said the dealership was only a half-hour's drive from my home in Vienna. I told him I'd be out that night.

After almost an hour's drive (post rush hour), I find the salesman I had talked to had left already. Another one shows me the car and I immediately saw it had over 600 miles on it. When I asked about the mileage, the salesman insisted the car was still new, but had just been used by the dealer as his personal vehicle for awhile. Trip done.

Beetlemaniac · May 8, 2018

Since I'm tired of messing with Kia, what do you guys think of a Subaru Impreza vs. a Mazda3 hatch? I could get my wife to agree to either of these models. The Impreza is a bit more, but has AWD. There is no dealer in Jordan, but they are in nearby Israel if necessary. Mazda has dealers in both countries and are supposedly more fun/reliable/efficient, to boot.

TDIMeister · May 8, 2018

You don't need AWD in Jordan, and crossing the border to Israel with a broken car is not like crossing between the US and Canada or Mexico. Go for the Mazda. Good driving dynamics and Skyactiv is also very good.

turbobrick240 · May 8, 2018

I'd go for the mazda too. For the reasons mentioned-pretty reliable, efficient, won't stand out, and easier to service locally if needed.

Best Cheap Car for Jordan?

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