Who else is having AdBlue issues?

My car just had the same error code pop up. I am not sure it was related to the cold though. We had just gone through 3 days of brutal single digit and sub-zero temps.

On the evening of day 4 (in the 20's) is when the light came on.

The next morning while filling up I bought a box of adblue. All 2 1/2 gallons went in. Since I was only 5000 miles from the last service I think this means either the dealer did not fill it at the last service, or the error was due to excessive use.

I dropped it off Thursday night. Friday afternoon they said they should have an eta Monday. They were currently out of loaners, but they said if the repair goes past Monday they will make a car available for me Monday evening.

50pascals said:

My car just had the same error code pop up. I am not sure it was related to the cold though. We had just gone through 3 days of brutal single digit and sub-zero temps.

On the evening of day 4 (in the 20's) is when the light came on.

The next morning while filling up I bought a box of adblue. All 2 1/2 gallons went in. Since I was only 5000 miles from the last service I think this means either the dealer did not fill it at the last service, or the error was due to excessive use.

I dropped it off Thursday night. Friday afternoon they said they should have an eta Monday. They were currently out of loaners, but they said if the repair goes past Monday they will make a car available for me Monday evening.

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How many miles showed up on the count-down? Did you have a CEL?

If it was 1500 miles and no CEL, it was just low fluid level, corrected by adding more fluid.

VeeDubTDI said:

How many miles showed up on the count-down? Did you have a CEL?

If it was 1500 miles and no CEL, it was just low fluid level, corrected by adding more fluid.

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200 miles to go with CEL

50pascals said:

200 miles to go with CEL

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Interesting! Let us know what the dealer changes and get part numbers if you can. So far the rumor is that they're upgrading the heating element and perhaps something else.

VeeDubTDI said:

Interesting! Let us know what the dealer changes and get part numbers if you can. So far the rumor is that they're upgrading the heating element and perhaps something else.

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Not a rumour. My car was just done last week. I have to get the time to type it all out.

Regards

*UPDATE*

Work order said

"Scanned with ODIS software, found DTC P204F for relutantsystem bank 1 performance. Tested per test plan in ELSA system and vehicle operating as designed. Performed....(it is cut off in the description)"

Long story short - they did diagnostic tests as prescribed, systems tested fine, so they just cleared the codes. If it does it again they will replace whatever the offending part is.

P204F deductant system performance comes up elsewhere on the internet, most notably here...

http://www.archivedsites.com/techconnect/2012/01/duramax-diesel-exhaust-system-fluid-injectors.html

Cold Temperatures

When the 6.6L Duramax diesel engine is operated in extremely cold ambient temperatures, a Service Exhaust Fluid System message may be displayed on the Driver Information Center. DTC P204F (Reductant System Performance) may set with possible vehicle speed limiting. Temperatures would have to be under -4° F (-20° C) for long periods of time.

If this message is displayed, complete the current Service Information diagnosis for any DTCs or symptoms found. The vehicle may actually have a low reductant fluid pressure, which would also set DTC P204F.

For 2010-2011 models only, a new calibration was released to improve extreme cold temperature conditions related to DTC P204F. 2012 models have updated calibrations.

Other factors that could contribute to the setting of DTC P204F include the use of an aftermarket winter cover or a combination of a winter cover and a snow plow (if the vehicle is equipped with a snow plow, a winter cover must not be used). This may allow the system to sense artificially high underhood temperatures, which could potentially prevent the DEF heaters from turning on and thawing the reductant fluid as required.

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Fortunately VW counts down to no-restart rather than the Duramax, which significantly reduces engine power.

The weird thing is that my CEL did not pop up until the evening of the warmest day - 20 degrees F. The prior days had been very cold (single digits)

VeeDubTDI said:

P204F deductant system performance comes up elsewhere on the internet, most notably here...



Fortunately VW counts down to no-restart rather than the Duramax, which significantly reduces engine power.

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For clarity, on the Duramax this error causes a mileage countdown (175 miles I believe) at which point it limits max speed to 65MPH. It does not reduce power or refuse to start. If the error is not corrected or cleared it then moves on to further reductions in max speed, eventually limited to around 3MPH, which is still enough to get it on a trailer if needed.

You are correct that the Duramax doesn't reduce engine power, it limits speed. The Duramax's speed limiting strategy is as follows...

http://www.archivedsites.com/techli...ax-diesel-exhaust-fluid-system-operation.html

Action | DIC message

0 mileage range | 400 miles until 65 mph max speed

Mileage counter expires | Transition to 65 mph max speed

After ramp down is complete | 75 miles until 55 mph max speed

Mileage counter expires | Transition to 55 mph max speed

After ramp down is complete; allows 3 events per key cycle | 75 miles until 4 mph max speed

Mileage counter expires | Transition to 4 mph max speed

After ramp down is complete; unlimited events per key cycle

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This compared to the Passat, which will continue to run indefinitely with full power and speed as long as you don't turn off the engine after the countdown expires. It does seem that the Duramax will allow three more engine starts before the 4 mph speed limit is enforced.

Got an error message today on the way to work, car only has 1075 miles on it. Error message said something like "Ad Blue low 200 miles before no start". The weather this morning as I left my house was a balmy -17*F. I'm assuming that is the problem, frozen lines. I will scan it tonight to see what the faults are. It goes to the dealer tomorrow for its 1000 mile check up anyways.

Sounds like frozen AdBlue... code is likely for insufficient AdBlue injector pressure due to the frozen fluid. If the countdown reaches zero, don't turn off the engine unless you have a tow truck lined up... otherwise, motor on until you can get it to the dealer.

here are my faults


2 Faults Found:
20553 - Reductant System Performance Bank 1
P204F 00 [232] - Malfunction
MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 1729 km
Date: 2001.14.30
Time: 06:11:16
4891 - EGR Valve (N18)
P0403 00 [096] - Malfunction
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 1729 km
Date: 2001.14.30
Time: 06:11:16
Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0

VeeDubTDI said:

Sounds like frozen AdBlue... code is likely for insufficient AdBlue injector pressure due to the frozen fluid. If the countdown reaches zero, don't turn off the engine unless you have a tow truck lined up... otherwise, motor on until you can get it to the dealer.

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When does AdBlue freeze? I've been driving my Passat in negatives often and haven't heard a peep from the DEF system.

cevans said:

When does AdBlue freeze? I've been driving my Passat in negatives often and haven't heard a peep from the DEF system.

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Diesel Exhaust Fluid needs to be protected from extreme temperatures. Diesel Exhaust Fluid's freezing point is at 12 degrees Fahrenheit (-11 Celsius). When DEF thaws, the product will retain its initial quality and vehicles will remain operational throughout the Diesel Exhaust Fluid tank thawing process. DEF should be stored in a sealed package and in a well ventilated storage area.

Taken from this link
http://us.air1.info/en/all-about-def/what-is-def/

On a two-hour trip from Indy to Louisville last Friday (-5 degrees F), the Adblue warning came on suddenly about half-way through the trip on our 2013 Passat. Said something along the lines of "No Restart in 200 miles" and the engine light came on. We stopped at the VW dealer in Clarksville, IN to have it checked. Adblue was over half full (car only has 5k miles on it) and they cleared the code and all tested fine. They couldn't explain why it happened, but my own logic tells me that the cold temps caused something to freeze and trip a sensor.

Yeah, the freezing point is 12F, but the system has electric heaters in various places. Apparently temperatures deep into the negatives combined with highway speeds will remove enough heat from the system to overwhelm the heaters and cause the fluid to freeze. So far I don't think anyone has been stranded from it.

Just started having issue with my Adblue yesterday. Light came up with the wrench and engine light. Now car is at dealership waiting for parts that are backordered! Very frustrating. Hopefully it will get fix quick. Will post here what was the issue.

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I have a 2013 Passat TDI that we purchased in May. A week before Christmas I had a meeting north of where I live and parked in an underground heated parkade as it was -25 C outside. On my way home an Adblue warning came on saying I needed to fill the Adblue within 350 km or the car wouldn't start. As well, the CEL light came on. Within 15 minutes the Adblue warning disappeared but the CEL light stayed on. The next day my dealership filled the Adblue tank (it was 3/4 full) and did an engine diagnostics and they said the cause was from condensation that froze from me parking in the heated parking lot which was my fault. I bought into that and paid the 170 dollar charge for them to do the diagnostic check.
Two days ago I was on my way to a community an hour east of here. It was -2 C when I left and the temperature ranged between -3 and -8 all the way there. About 45 minutes into the trip the Adblue warning light came on again along with the CEL light. Within 5 minutes the Adblue warning disappeared. As I keep my garage at 3C and it was almost at freezing the argument the dealership gave me no longer is valid, especially after reading the posts in this forum. I am very interested to see what VW has done for other owners so I can be more educated when I visit my dealership this week. This appears to be a fundamental flaw, in this system, and I will not be fooled into paying for needless diagnostic fees anymore. Further, we didn't buy this car to be a fair weather vehicle. VW better get this sorted out!

Your dealer fails at diagnostics. I'm also confused why they charged you $170... is the car out of warranty already? For $170 did they at least tell you what the specific trouble code (number and description) was?

Yes, I know my dealership fails at diagnostics and no, I still have full warranty. I was not given the code and the description, on the invoice, was:
"scanned vehicle and found that there was a reductant fluid below threshold, checked mvb and found that the vehicle was traveling at highway speeds, vehicle was parked in heated underground parking and moisture must have been on the outside of tank and froze the tank and for a split second the reductant fluid had froze, performed all test plans and found no issues with the vehicles reductant system, cleared intermittent code, attached gff."
I was charged for the diagnostics and filling the Adblue which was still 3/4 full as they said it was because I parked in a heated parkade. I won't get sucked into paying a second time for something which is obviously a warranty issue.

I'd tell them to eat a d**k straight up and to reimburse my costs and then call VWoC directly. Seems most Canadian dealers damn near crap their pants at the slight possibility of getting a bad review.

Regards

Sounds to me like they owe you $170. You should not be charged for diagnostics while under warranty! Might want to make a call to VW of Canada about that.

New development. I hadn't yet taken the car into the dealership to diagnose the check engine light and, this morning, when I started the car at an outdoors hotel parking lot the CEL was off. I drove home (2 hours) and it never appeared. Not sure why the CEL would go off on its own as I understood it could only be reset by the dealer. Anyone have an idea why?

The CEL will clear if the fault condition isn't present for a certain number of drive cycles. The code will still be stored in the computer even though the check engine light has turned off.

In your situation, I would say that you got the CEL and countdown when the DEF froze in the lines. The code was likely for insufficient reductant system performance. Once the fluid thawed, everything started working again and your countdown disappeared... a certain number of drive cycles after that, the CEL disappeared.

Okay, that makes sense. Based on this I will bring this up at my next service appointment (will not get conned into paying for the engine diagnostics again!) unless the issue reoccurs before then. Thank you for your advice!

You should still report the $170 charge to VWoC and see if you can get a refund plus get the dealership a good scolding for billing you for what should have been a warranty item.

Well the Passat TDI as been at dealership for more then a week. Waiting on some parts. Apparently the repair kit didn't fix anything

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Sounds like these cars shouldn't be sold in the Northern hemisphere. Get a jetta pre ad-blue. I have aTreg and have read the stories about ad-blue stories,so far I've had no issues. Car spends winter on vacation in Sw FL. Loves it!

showdown 42 said:

Sounds like these cars shouldn't be sold in the Northern hemisphere. Get a jetta pre ad-blue. I have aTreg and have read the stories about ad-blue stories,so far I've had no issues. Car spends winter on vacation in Sw FL. Loves it!

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Ok so let's just panic here. This is the 1st winter since they came out that people have been reporting this issue. I've had mine since September 2011 and it has never frozen and caused a CEL.

Read the thread you will notice that all of these cases appear to happen when it is below -15F and people are driving on interstates for hours. It looks like some of the cars sold to people in the northern plains just need the setup that is installed into cars going into northern Canada.