03 Wagon suspension suggestions?

I recently acquired an 03 Wagon, and am planning on overhauling the suspension. My two main questions are whether there's anything else non-stock besides Audi TT control arm bushings that are worth considering for the front, and what my best option would be for a slight lowering, to get rid of the big wheel gaps, while conserving or improving the handling.

So far I really like the feel of the Bilstein B4 socks on my Golf. I'd have no problem going a little stiffer, but feel B6 or B8 would cause rattling with these third world country roads I'm driving on here in Montreal. Konis are 100% out of the question... Any suggestions for a good damper /spring combo?

My thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=502152

I'd say you're stuck with a bit of front wheel gap unless you want to lose already limited travel, and you better have a skid plate. Get slightly larger tires to fill in some wheel gap and make your speedo more accurate (and your odo less accurate).

For your needs: Koni Reds and something like 225/200 or 200/180 for smooth handling on a wagon. Even 200/200 would be good for more loading capacity imo. You say koni's are out of the question, but myself and many others would say bilstein TC's are pretty harsh. My wife's wagon with stock springs and bilstein TC's is just as harsh over small bumps and cracks in the road as my koni yellow setup. Mine is much harsher over speed bumps (due to spring rate), but of course her corners much worse with lots of body roll. Koni reds should be very nice over small bumps and cracks, and if you keep lowish spring rates bigger bumps shouldn't be too harsh.

I read a lot about Koni dampers, and considered buying some, but wrote they are out of the question cause they are an inferior product not made for the rust belt. I'm not looking to scrape wheel wells or anything, just to get something that resembles more what a sedan with worn shocks and springs would look like.

I had a set of wagon Koni orange shocks (Argentinian origin) rust through so aggressively that one of them blew it's guts out out on the highway under compression. They were 3.5ish years old.

Koni NA in Kentucky replaced them under their lifetime warranty with a different set made in Holland. 2 years on the horribly salted roads out here in ski country and there's only a hint of surface rust where the paint has been removed with rocks.

I love Konis in MKIV cars. The Reds (which are no longer available, by the way), in my wagon for 7 years in New England, and they look fine. The STR.Ts seem more prone to rust. It's all a matter of taste, but I don't like Bilsteins of any type in MKIV cars. Too harsh.

You could go with Koni Special Actives (replacement for the Reds) or Koni Sport (Yellow) and Eibach springs: https://www.idparts.com/eibach-pro-...n-1j0411105ar-1j0511115cp-8577140-p-6205.html These will lower about 1.2".

I love how you guys are making a case for Konis even though I said they're out of the question

It's tempting, but it's hard to respect a company that will produce rusting junk. The Bilsteins on my Golf are on their third car and show no sign of wear. That's quality and what I'm looking to buy.

What about B4 with those Eibach springs? Can B4s be lowered or would I need to go with the sports?

B4s would be OK. B6s would be better. The shortened travel will require a firmer damper. If you decide to go with B4s I'd get the Sport version.

I've been happy with the Bilstein TC's on my 2003. They are tight enough for decent road control in regular driving, but cushy enough to provide a comfortable ride. My New Beetle has Koni Yellows; it is fun to drive but tiring and bothersome for longer trips. My wife's 2013 JSW has factory dampers which are in between -- tighter than the Bilstein TC's and jiggly on long trips, but not as harsh as the Koni Yellows. For this reason, I prefer my 2003 for road trips.

But it's totally up to you -- everyone has their own preferences and types of driving.

snakeye said:

I recently acquired an 03 Wagon, and am planning on overhauling the suspension. My two main questions are whether there's anything else non-stock besides Audi TT control arm bushings that are worth considering for the front, and what my best option would be for a slight lowering, to get rid of the big wheel gaps, while conserving or improving the handling.

So far I really like the feel of the Bilstein B4 socks on my Golf. I'd have no problem going a little stiffer, but feel B6 or B8 would cause rattling with these third world country roads I'm driving on here in Montreal. Konis are 100% out of the question... Any suggestions for a good damper /spring combo?

Click to expand...

H&R Springs have this set:

http://www.hrsprings.com/application/search/results/38/662/2003/
Not sure if you want to lower it that much?


They also have this /N 54724-55

H&R OE Sport Springs

Lowers .25 - .75” on average
The springs don’t show up on the wagon application chart but I called them & ask if they would fit on the Jetta wagon they’re saying no but as you know between the golfs and Jetta sedan’s springs are all the same


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If they don't show as fitting wagons the springs will go in, but the back of the car will ride low as it's heavier in the rear than a sedan or Golf.

Or more like the wagon unladen will sit more level. Seems like they sat a wee bit higher in the back when unladen with the stock OEM springs when new, because I assume they felt people would be putting more "stuff" in them.

snakeye said:

I love how you guys are making a case for Konis even though I said they're out of the question
It's tempting, but it's hard to respect a company that will produce rusting junk. The Bilsteins on my Golf are on their third car and show no sign of wear. That's quality and what I'm looking to buy.

Click to expand...

I'm not making a case one way or another- just noting that there was a difference between the Argentinian and Dutch made orange dampers.
I mostly got them because they were on sale and I was doing a complete suspension refresh at the time.

I did a suspension rebuild in pieces. First the front, then the rear. Same with my Son's car. His went first, and got Koni STR-t that I got a deal on from a member who got a newer car before installing them. Track density strut mounts, stock front LCA bushes, and TT rear. The rear got Cupra-R beam bushes and that was a very nice solidity improvement. My '04 got Bilsteins( the B6 ) and Powerflex ball type rear LCA bushes. Not a harsh deal at all. going to try the black ones next( if ever) when they need rebuilt. Rears were last, and the Cupra-R bushes made a good difference.

The rear bush replacement is simple with the right tools. A bushing splitter chisel and an air hammer took them right out. It was a big air hammer, but a CP 715 should be adequate and won't break the bank...everybody should have a solid hammer in their box anyway... A used rivet gun is even better, 7 or 9X will leave you wondering how you got along without( and the Big Nasty is at best a 5X ).
cheers,
Douglas

^ I had those cupra bushings on my previous wagon, still have the beam and am planning on installing it. The hard part is actually handling the beam. I laugh when I think of my mechanic telling me that other non-vw mechanics remove the beam and bring it to him to do the job. Hardest thing is messing around with brake lines, clips etc. The bushings themselves are a joke.

oilhammer said:

Or more like the wagon unladen will sit more level. Seems like they sat a wee bit higher in the back when unladen with the stock OEM springs when new, because I assume they felt people would be putting more "stuff" in them.

Click to expand...

Depends, no? If they keep a jetta level, they'd sag the rear of a wagon, no?

Just stumbled upon this :

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-h-and-r...9RItqJXwZGUKo2vOND3PkmtxCnHLYkHRoCwq4QAvD_BwE

1" drop in the front, 0.5" in the rear. Add the weight of the wagon in the rear and I'd get a more or less level car, no?

afterthisnap that's actually very interesting info, thanks. Just don't think I'll go that route.

After a lot of thinking, I decided to do the wise thing and give up on lowering the car. I already have almost new rear wagon springs, so I'll just need to get two new front ones.

I decided to go with Bilstein B6 dampers. My gut feeling tells me that although they might be on the stiff side, they'll handle the terribly uneven pothole and crack ridden roads of Montreal a little better than the B4s. I shall see... I received them today, and honestly they don't feel THAT much stiffer than the B4s. I'll make sure to post a review once they're installed and tested.

Any suggestions for the mounts? I'm leaning towards poly strut mounts, and maybe ecs hd rear mounts, but I'm not sure whether those will make much of a difference, and if they go bad, the rear mounts take a few minutes to change anyway...

I changed the rear mounts on my wagon, unsure if they'd been serviced before. At 260k miles, they probably could have been left in there they weren't that bad. So I went with OEM stock replacement. As for strut bushings, I went with stock as well. Very happy with them.

I heard the Strut Poly bushings give the car a harsh ride again I never tried them

I went with this set up:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-parts/heavy-duty-rubber-strut-mount-bushings-pair/016555ecs01akt/

Little more firmer but they last a lot longer

R32 LCA Bushings in rear

Rear Axle Bushing

https://www.idparts.com/seat-cupra-rear-axle-bushing-pair-6ll501541-411945-p-4826.html


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Yeah I think I'll skip the poly bushings. I think regular bushings will do the job.

So I just realized that the rear "wagon" shocks I ordered from rockauto are the same height as regular rear shocks, and apparently Bilstein doesn't have a B6 specific to the wagon. I got fooled, cause there are two different part numbers (24-026239 and 24-064095). Anyone know what the difference is? I have the latter.

Picking out the parts is turning out to be more time consuming than doing the work lol.

I think I'm starting to lose my mind here... So I definitely did get B6 Wagon specific shocks. According to this post, the wagon shock is longer, and when I measured mine, from the middle of the bottom hole to the locking clip, it was around 65.5 cm, which makes sense. What does not however, is how this shock compares to other non-wagon shocks, as shown in the pic below :



From the left :
Sachs 310 383 (came off of a Jetta)
OEM 1J0 513 025 CD or 1J0 512 011AA
TRW JGT4964S (bought for Golf)
Bilstein B6 24-064095

I have no idea what's going on here. I thought the wagon shock needed to be longer so that it doesn't top out... Am I comparing apples to oranges by comparing HD shocks to regular ones, or do I somehow have a bunch of wagon shocks laying around without even knowing it?

Thse are rears, right? What's the PN on the B6? I'm not aware of Bilstein having a wagon specific B6 rear in North America.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Thse are rears, right? What's the PN on the B6? I'm not aware of Bilstein having a wagon specific B6 rear in North America.

Click to expand...

Yes rears, 24-064095 is the PN. Rockauto has two versions, and according to the post linked in my previous post, it's the longer of the two. It's it possible that B6 shocks are actually shorter than stock, despite providing a slight lift?

For visual reference.