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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

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Old December 17th, 2010, 16:42   #46
ToeBall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post
There is less air going through a TDI intake (intercooler included) than a gasser intake. Our cars get better mileage because they get more 'bang' for the amount of fuel and air. At highway speed, our TDI's will be turning 2000rpm. A similar 2.0T gasser will be higher, say 3000rpm. With the same displacement (and boost), the gasser will be flowing 50% more air.

How it's throttled is a separate matter.
No, our engines get more bang because they recycle some of the heat generated from combustion for ignition and because diesel fuel is a longer chain molecule and stores more energy so it takes less volume. A 2L displacement engine pumps the same amount of air at a specific RPM (assuming same flow resistance on intake and exhaust) regardless of weather it's burning diesel, gasoline, or is being turned by an electric motor or your wheels.

Of more interest to me is the fact that heat is recycled. This implies (and indeed it does hold true) that a certain amount of heat is needed for efficient operation. Restricting cooling to help maintain that heat level makes sense in that case.
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Old December 17th, 2010, 16:50   #47
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Originally Posted by ToeBall View Post
No, our engines get more bang because they recycle some of the heat generated from combustion for ignition and because diesel fuel is a longer chain molecule and stores more energy so it takes less volume. A 2L displacement engine pumps the same amount of air at a specific RPM (assuming same flow resistance on intake and exhaust) regardless of weather it's burning diesel, gasoline, or is being turned by an electric motor or your wheels.
Thank you for re-affirming what I just said.
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Old December 17th, 2010, 20:47   #48
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The sky is not falling.....but it's total BS to have that kinda sludge in a brand new car...and it don't matter if you drain it or not..when the turbo pressurizes the cooler that sludge is getting sucked/pushed in your $10k+ engine..


a drain is a waste of cash..and time.
Good luck getting that kinda sludge to drain through a petcock..lol
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Old December 18th, 2010, 02:50   #49
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Originally Posted by TDIFred View Post
unfortunately for you, and many other newer owners on here, there is a tendency for doom and gloom to dominate. many over-dramatise small problems which get undue attention. while I am not trying to minimise engine failures or HPFP failures, they are relatively rare.
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Originally Posted by Ryephile View Post
Wow, the sky is falling again. :P

If you want to be proactive, every 10k oil change, loosen the IC hose and dump out whatever is in there. It'll add a whole 2 minutes to your oil change procedure, and ease your mind.

A catch can would be another good idea, though AFAIK nobody has developed one for the CR TDI yet.
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Originally Posted by 53 willys View Post
The sky is not falling.....but it's total BS to have that kinda sludge in a brand new car...and it don't matter if you drain it or not..when the turbo pressurizes the cooler that sludge is getting sucked/pushed in your $10k+ engine..

a drain is a waste of cash..and time.
Good luck getting that kinda sludge to drain through a petcock..lol
I hesitate to respond to the sky is falling comments, however, there is a difference between minor quibbles and major design flaws that cause totaling of an engine with no advance warning, or for the car to fail to operate in routine weather conditions. We paid a lot of money for these cars, and it is reasonable at this point in the history of automobile design to have well know issues such as intake icing resolved.

I fail to see how ANYONE with one of these cars should not be EXTREMELY concerned about water damaging their engine due to this issue. If you drive in humid wintry conditions, I can tell you from experience that this problem is real, and happens often. 1 cup or more of water sitting in your intake at startup is a disaster waiting to happen - you can't argue it any other way.

Since the sky is not falling, I guess I will go back to being blissfully stupid about the operation of my car. And I will refrain from posting my concerns or sharing my experience here, I don't want to aggravate anyone by discussing something that isn't a real problem. I'm sure I should be appeased by draining my cooler hoses every chance I get, and happy when my engine grenades in a year or two when its out of warranty because VW's intake was sucking melt-water straight in. After all, I got my warranty period out of the car right? Thats what I paid for after all. No reason I should expect a $25k car to last more than 60k miles.

Going back in the hole I crawled out from - thanks TDICLUB - over and out.

Last edited by GraniteRooster; December 18th, 2010 at 03:47.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 04:06   #50
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GRooster, I have been following your story as well as others having this issue. My issues started a few weeks ago with not being able to start the car in the garage after warming it up above freezing for a night. This happened twice. My driving conditions have been temps below 20 both to and from work for my 128 mile commute and parking in a garage above freezing. I haven't driven in any heavy rain or snow, and I certainly haven't been crossing any streams or rivers. I did a lot of reading here and using that information I pulled off the bottom cover and pulled apart the inter cooler hoses.

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/6586/img1222zz.jpg

What I found was about a half a cup of green slime with some water mixed in. My wife referred to it as snot. It didn't flow too well at the 4o deg f. that I was working in. So I used my heat gun in the hose and pipe to get most of it moving and then wiped the rest out. I don't believe the installation of a petcock would be adequate to drain this because of the consistency of the substance.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2058/img1224vx.jpg

We shall see how next week goes as the weather conditions should be the same. The car has over 37,000 miles (Read warranty is up) on it and I have driven it through some serious snow and rain up until now and haven't had any issues like this until now. I contacted VW last night via their web site to get a reference number. We shall see how that goes.

I don't believe this is an over dramatized issue. You could be doing everything correctly in regards to maintaining your car, not driving through rivers, etc. and in a moment, under the correct conditions, boom your engine is done. We shall see how I make out with VW. I'll be interested in your outcome with the rep from VW.

To answer Samcars question. Remove the "Skid plate" under the car. Once that is removed the inter cooler hose that you pull apart is located on the passenger side. Just pull it apart there. Trying to get VW to do it during an oil change is another topic. I have found they don't do anything unless there is a code telling them what to do.
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Last edited by VeeDubTDI; November 14th, 2014 at 12:18. Reason: giant pics
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Old December 18th, 2010, 05:14   #51
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I pulled off the bottom cover and pulled apart the inter cooler hoses.
In that case....

No way will I drag myself under a brand new car, in winter, to unhook and drain sludge from anything. This doesn't exactly show up in the scheduled maintenance section of the book. As long as its under warranty, its not my problem..its VWs. Post warranty, it gets added to the keep/dump equation.

It will be interesting to see if a TSB ever materializes, and what it says. Should be good for entertainment value. VW ain't the best name in the business for taking care of its customers....

Last edited by IFRCFI; December 18th, 2010 at 05:17.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 05:16   #52
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Now thats constructive. Awesome Pictures DHall. Thank you very much.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 05:39   #53
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DHall, or anyone else here with a turbocharged gasser in addition to the TDI, are such issues common to all turbocharged and (front mount) intercooled cars?

What I don't get is that VW sells the Golf as a true World Car. The TDI (in its various engine sizes) is hugely popular and important for the masses in Europe, in particular, and it sells like hotcakes over there in all the different climates that continent offers.

Given this and other issues, are Europeans just complacent to stuff like this figuring, "It's a VW, it's just the way it is."
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Old December 18th, 2010, 05:47   #54
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Anyone else think that the TDI's excellent thermal efficiency is an issue here? That, combined with great intercooling and cold, wet weather prevents moisture from being evaporated. I drove out to Detroit in 0F weather two years ago and at the time had a scan gauge on my ALH. I saw IATs at -10 to +10, depending on load. I believe those are measured in the intercooler. Not much is going to evaporate at those temps.

A couple people have mentioned blocking off the IC to keep the engine warmer. Given that more than a few people are experiencing slow to no warm-up on '09 and later cars in really cold temperatures, this might help both issues.

I'm running a winter front on my wagon this year for the first time in 20F and lower temps. It does significantly help warm-up time and heat production. Something similar for the newer cars might help. Not saying this is the entire solution, but it might provide some peace of mind.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 05:55   #55
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Anyone else think that the TDI's excellent thermal efficiency is an issue here? That, combined with great intercooling and cold, wet weather prevents moisture from being evaporated. I drove out to Detroit in 0F weather two years ago and at the time had a scan gauge on my ALH. I saw IATs at -10 to +10, depending on load. I believe those are measured in the intercooler. Not much is going to evaporate at those temps.

A couple people have mentioned blocking off the IC to keep the engine warmer. Given that more than a few people are experiencing slow to no warm-up on '09 and later cars in really cold temperatures, this might help both issues.

I'm running a winter front on my wagon this year for the first time in 20F and lower temps. It does significantly help warm-up time and heat production. Something similar for the newer cars might help. Not saying this is the entire solution, but it might provide some peace of mind.
I've only seen such covers for the earlier cars. Are such covers available for the Mk. V and Mk. VI chassis yet?
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Old December 18th, 2010, 06:09   #56
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The goop in the hoses may possibly be from the way VW designed the crankcase ventilation system for the new CR engine. There's a whole section in the study guide about how it works. If VW actually has a tech bulletin in the works for this, then I would say the problem is more prevalent than what's popping up here.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 06:22   #57
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Here is a picture of the intercooler system. I'm guessing you loosen the 2 clamps ( #5 in drawing) and drain there?

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Old December 18th, 2010, 06:26   #58
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Even ice can evaporate in subzero temp's if there is enough air blowing over it. I'd guess that we are seeing a dead spot in the intercooler system that is allowing this to happen. Locate the spot where the air is not flowing properly and, if I am right, problem solved.

IBW's idea of blocking off cooling system in the winter is a good idea, even if you don't have this issue. Quicker warm up is only one of many benefits I can think of.

As for prevalence I'd guess that over half the cars out there never see our temperatures, and we only see them 3 months out of the year. Of those of us that drive in the winter, only a hand full might drive under the right circumstances to produce an effect that would result in a catastrophic failure. Doesn't mean it's not a serious problem that the oem needs to address.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 06:28   #59
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Winter fronts have only been available for MKIV cars. And they're all gone, obseleted by VW. We got our last two for the Golf last week, no more Jetta.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 06:39   #60
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Here is a picture of the intercooler system. I'm guessing you loosen the 2 clamps ( #5 in drawing) and drain there?

Yep, #5 on the passenger side is where the goop accumulates. The hose on the driver's side where it attaches to the intercooler is where the oil usually drips.
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